Boca Jrs 06-07: La Era La Volpe un fracaso!

[vipnerd]

This afternoon, Ricardo La Volpe starts his journey with Boca ... a day after the club won its 16th international cup and is 2 points clear on top of the Apertura '06 with 1/2 game on hand.

Best of luck to La Volpe, the team is there. A team that is getting accostumed to win and win and win. 5 titles in the past 14 months, everything the club played for under Basile.


Just for the record, this are Guille's titles, which coincide with Boca's under Macri:

1998 – 2nd Semester > Apertura 98
1999 – 1st Semester > Clausura 99
1999 – 2nd Semester >
2000 – 1st Semester > Libertadores 00
2000 – 2nd Semester > Apertura 00, Intercontinental 00
2001 – 1st Semester > Libertadores 01
2001 – 2nd Semester >
2002 – 1st Semester >
2002 – 2nd Semester >
2003 – 1st Semester > Libertadores 03
2003 – 2nd Semester > Apertura 03, Intercontinental 03
2004 – 1st Semester >
2004 – 2nd Semester > Sudamericana 04
2005 – 1st Semester >
2005 – 2nd Semester > Recopa 05, Apertura 05, Sudamericana 05
2006 – 1st Semester > Clausura 06
2006 – 2nd Semester > Recopa 06, ...???


http://www.ole.clarin.com/diario/2006/09/15/portada.jpg


Being a Boca fan is a celebration! :D



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[argentine soccer fan]

Yes, we have to recognize Macri, because he turned around the fortunes of Boca since he became president.

I think Boca is looking good for the future. It will be difficult to keep up the success level we had under Basile, but I think we have a solid team that could contend in any league in the world.

This is what I wrote about Boca in a threat called 'Sweet Sixteen', in the rivalry board: (Somebody was asking who's Boca's biggest star)




I'd say the biggest stars are probably Rodrigo Palacio and Fernando Gago. But this team is solid at every position and has depth. I don't think it is a stretch to say that they are one of the best teams in the world. Obviously they don't have the budget to match up to teams like a Barcelona or a Chelsea in terms of overall talent, but they are balanced and solidly built, and I believe they would likely contend in any league in the world.

Look at the usual starting lineup. They have a mixture of veteran players, some with European Experience, and young talent that will eventually make a mark in the top European leagues.

................Bobadilla
...........Silvestre...Diaz
Ibarra.......................Krupov iesa
..........Battaglia......Gago
....Cardozo.............Marino
.............Palermo.......Palacio

GK Aldo Bobadilla: The replacement for Pato Abbondancieri is a solid goalkeeper who was a starter for Paraguay's national team at this year's WC, and was one of the few paraguayan players who excelled.

RB Hugo Ibarra: A veteran who is solid defending and dangerous attacking, had a succesful career in Europe, particularly his time at Monaco, when he helped them reach the final of Champions league. Also played at Porto and Espanol. Played 6 matches for Argentina's national team.

LB Juan Krupoviesa: A young powerful lateral defender who came from Estudiantes, and is considered by some future national team material.

CB Daniel 'Cata' Diaz: Big powerful central defender with leadership qualities, strong on the air. He gained some international experience playing in Mexico for Cruz Azul. Has two caps for Argentina.

CB Matias Silvestre: A young defender from Boca's system who compliments Diaz very well.

M Fernando Gago: One of the most exciting stars in Argentine football, he is a young defensive midfield from Boca's system who is often compared to Fernando Redondo. Is being scouted by top European Clubs, including Real Madrid.

M Sebastian Battaglia: Veteran defensive midfielder strong in recovery and leadership, he was part of the success of Bianchi's Boca before moving to Villareal. Due to injuries, never lived up to his potential in Europe, and is now back at Boca playing better than ever. Has played for Argentina national team on a few occasions.

M Neri Cardozo: Another young talented midfielder who is fast and dangerous on attack, and is considered by many a future national team player.

M Guillermo Marino: Young playmaker who is replacing the departed Federico Insua this season, he was a key player when Newell's Old Boys won the Argentine title two years ago, but still hasn't fully lived up to his promise at Boca. He is being challenged for the position by Jesus Datolo, another young playmaker.

F Martin Palermo: One of Boca's highest goalscorers in history, he played for several Spanish clubs but never lived up to his potential in Europe. Back at Boca, he is now a more complete player and has regained his scoring touch. Played seven times for Argentina, scoring three goals.

F Rodrigo Palacio: A superstar in the making, Palacio is a young forward with speed, ball control and finishing touch. He was part of this year's Argentina world cup squad and made an appearance as a sub against Ivory Coast.

Subs who have stepped in and performed well include in defense Claudio Morel Rodriguez and Jose Maria Calvo, in midfield Pablo Ledezma and Jesus Datolo, and of course on attack, Guillermo Barros Schelotto.

Of course, given the economic realities of today's football, it will be difficult for Boca to keep such a group together after this year. But there are some young players in the system ready to step up, and in addition Boca is usually able to raid other Argentine and South American clubs for talent, to make up their inevitable losses to European clubs. And because of Boca's prestige, Argentine players with succesful careers in Europe often are willing to come back to finish their careers at Boca and lend some veteran leadership.

So, I'm not too worried about the future, although it will be tough to mantain the current level of success.

Aguante Boca!!!

[argentine soccer fan]

Poor start for Lavolpe's Boca today. The team looked tired and slow. You can hardly blame him for it. It probably is a result of the effort against Sao Paulo. Still, you'd think Boca should be able to handle Godoy Cruz.

[vipnerd]

Poor start for Lavolpe's Boca today. The team looked tired and slow. You can hardly blame him for it. It probably is a result of the effort against Sao Paulo. Still, you'd think Boca should be able to handle Godoy Cruz.

There was no TV for the game, but since early in the 1st half Closs was saying that Ledesma looked tired.

What pist me off was to hear La Volpe on TyC saying he took Marino off because he was supposed to play wide open on the left, while Cardozo on the right. That his 4-4-2 uses 2 wide open midfielders. :rolleyes:

La Volpe, you fokin moron, in your first game, with 1 1/2 days training, with a tired team that played 4 games in 9 days, you want to switch the way the team is playing? Oh lord ... I'm a SOB with stupidity. And this was plain stupid.

Furtheremore, to take out Neri and place Calvo ... when Ledesma was the one tired was just to use your wide open 4-4-2. Instead, the team should had remained the same as Coco used, and replaced Ledesma with Calvo (pushing Ibarra to midfield, where he started his career).

It is scary that Godoy Cruz had open chances, despite the #of misses Boca had ... from what the radio was saying, both Ibarra and Krupo were asked to play at the same place up the pitch as Gago, leaving Cata and Morel as the only 2 in the back. Ledesma was asked to play as a double DM, near Gago.

Why so many freaking changes for the 1st game? The players haven't had the time to rest after the effort, travelling and celebrations. What an ego trip to want to show his way around today. Btw, Marino will be history soon. This mofo won't use a playmaker. Expect Datolo to play wide on the left from now on. Marino deosn't have the speed for it.

2 points thrown down the drain. Thanx Ricardo. :rolleyes:


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[Panfilo]

There was no TV for the game, but since early in the 1st half Closs was saying that Ledesma looked tired.

What pist me off was to hear La Volpe on TyC saying he took Marino off because he was supposed to play wide open on the left, while Cardozo on the right. That his 4-4-2 uses 2 wide open midfielders. :rolleyes:

La Volpe, you fokin moron, in your first game, with 1 1/2 days training, with a tired team that played 4 games in 9 days, you want to switch the way the team is playing? Oh lord ... I'm a SOB with stupidity. And this was plain stupid.

Furtheremore, to take out Neri and place Calvo ... when Ledesma was the one tired was just to use your wide open 4-4-2. Instead, the team should had remained the same as Coco used, and replaced Ledesma with Calvo (pushing Ibarra to midfield, where he started his career).

It is scary that Godoy Cruz had open chances, despite the #of misses Boca had ... from what the radio was saying, both Ibarra and Krupo were asked to play at the same place up the pitch as Gago, leaving Cata and Morel as the only 2 in the back. Ledesma was asked to play as a double DM, near Gago.

Why so many freaking changes for the 1st game? The players haven't had the time to rest after the effort, travelling and celebrations. What an ego trip to want to show his way around today. Btw, Marino will be history soon. This mofo won't use a playmaker. Expect Datolo to play wide on the left from now on. Marino deosn't have the speed for it.

2 points thrown down the drain. Thanx Ricardo. :rolleyes:


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Why am I not surprised?

[Sakuragi]

There was no TV for the game, but since early in the 1st half Closs was saying that Ledesma looked tired.

What pist me off was to hear La Volpe on TyC saying he took Marino off because he was supposed to play wide open on the left, while Cardozo on the right. That his 4-4-2 uses 2 wide open midfielders. :rolleyes:

La Volpe, you fokin moron, in your first game, with 1 1/2 days training, with a tired team that played 4 games in 9 days, you want to switch the way the team is playing? Oh lord ... I'm a SOB with stupidity. And this was plain stupid.

Furtheremore, to take out Neri and place Calvo ... when Ledesma was the one tired was just to use your wide open 4-4-2. Instead, the team should had remained the same as Coco used, and replaced Ledesma with Calvo (pushing Ibarra to midfield, where he started his career).

It is scary that Godoy Cruz had open chances, despite the #of misses Boca had ... from what the radio was saying, both Ibarra and Krupo were asked to play at the same place up the pitch as Gago, leaving Cata and Morel as the only 2 in the back. Ledesma was asked to play as a double DM, near Gago.

Why so many freaking changes for the 1st game? The players haven't had the time to rest after the effort, travelling and celebrations. What an ego trip to want to show his way around today. Btw, Marino will be history soon. This mofo won't use a playmaker. Expect Datolo to play wide on the left from now on. Marino deosn't have the speed for it.

2 points thrown down the drain. Thanx Ricardo. :rolleyes:


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OMG, and it begins.

I feel your pain, I really do.

[andywhat]

And this is exactly the critizime and hatred Basile had to deal with when he started. I agree in a couple of things:

1. No changes should have been made yet, team is tired
2. Not enough time with the team to fully understand how they play.

but you have to give him a chance, I mean look what happened to Basile just recently with Brazil we LOST 3-0, and everybody said oh he only had 48 hours to train with the team. Well Boca did not loose, they held their ground and from what I've read they had more opportunities to score. Just give him time, to train and understand how Boca plays. And by all means don't think Im defending Lavolpe, I mean I am not against and not for, but I am hoping he does a very good job with Boca, just because that will prove something to mexico and the other teams he's coached. ;)

[vipnerd]

And this is exactly the critizime and hatred Basile had to deal with when he started. I agree in a couple of things:

1. No changes should have been made yet, team is tired
2. Not enough time with the team to fully understand how they play.

but you have to give him a chance, I mean look what happened to Basile just recently with Brazil we LOST 3-0, and everybody said oh he only had 48 hours to train with the team. Well Boca did not loose, they held their ground and from what I've read they had more opportunities to score. Just give him time, to train and understand how Boca plays. And by all means don't think Im defending Lavolpe, I mean I am not against and not for, but I am hoping he does a very good job with Boca, just because that will prove something to mexico and the other teams he's coached. ;)

I agree Andy ... La Volpe needs time to work the team. My point was related to yesterday ... he had no time to make changes and no physical response to demand it.

This can be concluded form asking Neri and Marino to play wide open. This demands physical response which the players had little yesterday, and cancelled the main weapon of Basile's Boca which was their appearance by surprise all over the attack.

And to move around the defense, was way too risky under the physical circumstances. All this needs time and fresh legs and minds.

I differ with you in the comparison of the NT with Basile, as this Boca team could play in "autmatic pilot" the way it was doing, very different from the NT where for the first time the players were playing together. Specially in defense.

There was no need to lose points yesterday ... cut the winning streak, that even thou it is intangible, it does give the team a psychological edge.

A few weeks ago, the La Red reporter who covers Boca mentioned that La Volpe had asked for the possibility to make the Bombonera field wider ... that teams tend to come and sit back, closing spaces. Of course there is no way as the field is tight already and there needs to be space for the corner kicks. But the fact that rivals close up in the back was not an issue with Boca under Basile. Because surprise breaks the opponents bunkering. Yet, La Volpe pretends to play a wide open, fixed position midfield. With no surprise, there is less space. Worse if there is less physical response.

Oh ... and did you guys know that he appeared to the game with a white shirt and a red tie? The fans bitched at him to take the tie off ... to avoid any River colors in Boca's bench. This might seem a minor detail, but for the fans, it isn't. La Volpe then explained he uses red to repel bad vibes :rolleyes: and that he never realized the unfortunate dress code.


PS: Check this out (http://www.ole.clarin.com/jsp/v4/pagina.jsp?pagId=1273641&fecha=20060918)



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[Dr. Know]

Oh ... and did you guys know that he appeared to the game with a white shirt and a red tie? The fans bitched at him to take the tie off ... to avoid any River colors in Boca's bench. This might seem a minor detail, but for the fans, it isn't. La Volpe then explained he uses red to repel bad vibes :rolleyes: and that he never realized the unfortunate dress code.

What a retard. Great way to make a first impression :rolleyes:.

[argentine soccer fan]

As far as Marino, who knows? I liked him at Newells, but he hasn't been impressive so far. I think if Datolo was doing well in practice and whenever he came in the game, the change was going to happen even if Basile had stayed with the team.

To be fair, I think it's a bit early to get on Lavolpe over strategy. Remember, we didn't look that great against Gimnasia the previous week, either. It's a function of having those important recopa matches in midweek, in which the team has to leave its heart. Lets wait a few matches, until Lavolpe has time to work with the team, and see what happens.

But if the guy is not willing to take off his red tie, he is a moron. He is an Argentine football player, so he should know better. Maybe he's been away too long and it didn't cross his mind, but the moment the fans reminded him he should not merely have taken off the red tie, but trashed it in front of everybody and even better, throw the broken pieces to the fans. That would have gotten him some respect with the crowd.

All I got to say is, he better not get in the wrong foot with the fans. And he better make sure Boca beats the gayinas, or he's going to have problems right away.

[Illrod3]

http://espndeportes-att.espn.go.com/2003/photos2006/0918/f_lavo2_232

Grande Lavolpe!! Que lindo colores!! :D

[Illrod3]

Esta es la foto que intente poner:

http://tvazteca.com.mx/deportes/futbolinternacional/2006/09/118671.jpg

http://www.eldictamen.com.mx/imagenes/fotos/de_lavolpeboca02.jpg

Increible. Lei en algun lugar que Lavolpe esta muy metido en la astrologia, quizas eso explica la corbata pero igual no se puede poner los colores de River en su debut!! Que grande! :D

[vipnerd]

As far as Marino, who knows? I liked him at Newells, but he hasn't been impressive so far. I think if Datolo was doing well in practice and whenever he came in the game, the change was going to happen even if Basile had stayed with the team.

To be fair, I think it's a bit early to get on Lavolpe over strategy. Remember, we didn't look that great against Gimnasia the previous week, either. It's a function of having those important recopa matches in midweek, in which the team has to leave its heart. Lets wait a few matches, until Lavolpe has time to work with the team, and see what happens.

But if the guy is not willing to take off his red tie, he is a moron. He is an Argentine football player, so he should know better. Maybe he's been away too long and it didn't cross his mind, but the moment the fans reminded him he should not merely have taken off the red tie, but trashed it in front of everybody and even better, throw the broken pieces to the fans. That would have gotten him some respect with the crowd.

All I got to say is, he better not get in the wrong foot with the fans. And he better make sure Boca beats the gayinas, or he's going to have problems right away.

ASF ... don't get me wrong, I do believe La Volpe will be successful and support him as I support the team. He is a hard working DT, and that is a recipe for success. But to throw away 2 points like we did yesterday, is rough. We weren't playing Velez or Lanus ... it was Godoy Cruz!

As far as the tie goes ... he did take it off at halftime and unbuttoned his shirt. He corrected the mistake. :rolleyes:

I also agree that the midweek games against Sao Paulo were a high ticket. It is not the same to play a 2 leg tie for the Sudamericana than play Sao Paulo. We have to be aware thou, that in 10 days Boca starts the Sudamericana and then has the superclasico on October 8th. And if both Boca and River go thru to 4ters of Sudamericana Cup, they will face each other again. Twice. That could make 3 superclasicos in October.

The worst thing that could happen to the players is to have gone from Thu to Fri with less than 3 hours sleep (left the stadium past midnite in Brazil and had an eraly flight on Firday back to Bs As). On Friday, meet the new coach. Train and talk strategy on Saturday ... leaving little rest, and then playing a new system on Sunday. Way too soon IMO.

As to the tactics he used, yes, he gave the team 30 minutes and then made them switch to how he wanted them to play ... wide open the midfielders, 2 in the back, etc. He gave several interviews after the game, and he himself explained what those at the Bombonera saw. This is also something we will grow to witness ... La Volpe loves talking football and making his point. He started already talking and talking, giving interviews to a few of the TV footy shows, until quite late and a few hours after the game. This isn't necessarily good or bad, but he places himself in a lot more compromise to deliver after talking so much. That is how I see it.

Hard work should be seen on the field, not talked over and over in the media. This morning Niembro was saying this was good, to start talking football, players and systems like when Bilardo took over after Menotti. Niembro insists that Argentine football has been isolated out of discussion, and that La Volpe might help change this.

To me its all good ... but first work, win lots of stuff and then come out to defend it. Or to explain it. Paper takes everything you put on it, used to say my dad.


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[smd9]

Esta es la foto que intente poner:

http://tvazteca.com.mx/deportes/futbolinternacional/2006/09/118671.jpg

http://www.eldictamen.com.mx/imagenes/fotos/de_lavolpeboca02.jpg

Increible. Lei en algun lugar que Lavolpe esta muy metido en la astrologia, quizas eso explica la corbata pero igual no se puede poner los colores de River en su debut!! Que grande! :D

que pelotudo,bueno menos mal que se lo saco en el entretiempo.

[vipnerd]

So ... they are out ... :-D


http://www.ole.clarin.com/diario/2006/09/19/fotos/f015ah02.jpg


http://www.ole.clarin.com/diario/2006/09/19/fotos/f015ah03.jpg



PS: Told ya ...

http://www.ole.clarin.com/diario/2006/09/19/portada.jpg


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[wreckedmachine redded]

lol vamos river, jk.

[argentine soccer fan]

To me its all good ... but first work, win lots of stuff and then come out to defend it. Or to explain it. Paper takes everything you put on it, used to say my dad.


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I'm not saying he's good or bad. Frankly I don't know a whole lot about Lavolpe as a coach. It seems like most Mexicans don't like Lavolpe and they know him more than we do, but others defend him. We'll have to wait and see.

All I'm saying is, it's unfair to judge him one way or the other based on that one match right after the Recopa win. I mean, how many days did Lavolpe have to work with the team?

[Dr. Know]

So ... they are out ... :-D


http://www.ole.clarin.com/diario/2006/09/19/fotos/f015ah02.jpg


http://www.ole.clarin.com/diario/2006/09/19/fotos/f015ah03.jpg


:D Where do you find these pictures? I always look for the new ones but I can't find them.

[vipnerd]

:D Where do you find these pictures? I always look for the new ones but I can't find them.


Those appeared in Ole, but I found better quality ones at argiefooty.cjb.net (http://z10.invisionfree.com/argiefooty/index.php?showtopic=58) They posted the 5 different ones there.


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[vipnerd]

Most of us have watched football for years, not to say decades. The saying: "team that is winning shouldn't be touched" has been heard thousands of times.

There is another conclusion that comes to my mind ... use the "achique" in defense only when necessary, not as the way to defend.

Well, I am growing anxious and preocupied with the reports of the Boca trainings. Not only the team is being changed, the way of playing is being changed ... and the "achique" seems to be the prefered way to defend. Applying pressure means leaving spaces in the back, something that Argentine teams know very well how to exploit.

From a 4-3-1-2 that displayed some beautiful football, not seen in Argentina since the 1st days of Bianchi at Boca or of Ramon Diaz's River, I am noticing an inclination to tactics and mechanical movement.

La Volpe is practicing with a 3-5-2 when attacking that turns to a 5-3-2 when defending. This is the team that played in today's practice:

Bobadilla
Maidana - Cata - Morel
Ibarra - Gago - Krupo
Ledesma -------- Neri
Palacio - Palermo

In simple terms, replaced the playmaker, Marino/Datolo, with another defender.

But, in reality, it makes Ibarra and Krupo to still go forward (not that they didn't with Coco) but to press in defense further up the pitch. It makes Ledesma and Neri as exterior midfielders ... close to the side lines. And boxes both Palermo and Palacio into the center.

What does this all mean? That the element of surprise is gone. The imagination to create your space is limited to the zone asked to perform. That the best Palermo, which pivots with his back to the goal and then finds his place to simply push it in, will be fighting against defenders in the air. That the surprise arrival of Neri thru out the entire front, which gave Palacio the chance to create his own chances, is limited to the sideline.

Another point ... Bobadilla can't clear long no more, that which gave Palacio the chance to shine. La Volpe wants the ball to start on the ground and clean from the back. Even if the element of surprise is gone.

I am worried. Worried because I am a firm believer that a coach should adapt his tactics to the players at hand. What else did Boca need to prove in hte past 14 months? :confused:

What do you guys think? From what it looks so far, more than results, as the tie on Sunday should be put in the context of the physical decay in the players.


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