To FC or not FC

[Georgia Empire]

that is the question.

All the threads are now turning into Europe vs. American culture, and it takes forever just to read through them. So please, let the debate begin and stay here and only here so that we can keep the other threads to what they should be.

First to say use of Football Club or Soccer Club is retarded!!!! :) You do not see Real Madrid name their basketball team Madrid Cowboys do you? So why should we adopt their culture? I'm not anti-european, but i like the sound of our names better anyways.

[Rowdies4ever]

First to say use of Football Club or Soccer Club is retarded!!!! :) You do not see Real Madrid name their basketball team Madrid Cowboys do you? So why should we adopt their culture? I'm not anti-european, but i like the sound of our names better anyways.I've tried to parse this paragraph of yours several times, and you make absolutely no sense. Try writing in complete, logical sentences backed up by some solid reasoning rather than exercising mere question-begging rhetorical spin based on unfounded opinion and uninformed prejudice.

As for "adopting their culture" what a crock of sh!t. Americans have been calling their soccer teams football clubs, association football clubs, and even soccer football clubs for well over a century. This is a very old and permanent tradition within American soccer, it is not a recent import. You should read up on your American soccer history before making incoherent remarks like the above quoted paragraph.

I am really getting tired of "American soccer fans" who don't know sh!t about American soccer history. This crap has got to stop. You are only a short Google and Wikipedia search away from enlightenment, friend. You have the most amazing research tool ever invented by man at your fingertips. Use it.

[Georgia Empire]

I've tried to parse this paragraph of yours several times, and you make absolutely no sense. Try writing in complete, logical sentences backed up by some solid reasoning rather than exercising mere question-begging rhetorical spin based on unfounded opinion and uninformed prejudice.

As for "adopting their culture" what a crock of sh!t. Americans have been calling their soccer teams football clubs, association football clubs, and even soccer football clubs for well over a century. This is a very old and permanent tradition within American soccer, it is not a recent import. You should read up on your American soccer history before making incoherent remarks like the above quoted paragraph.

I am really getting tired of "American soccer fans" who don't know sh!t about American soccer history. This crap has got to stop. You are only a short Google and Wikipedia search away from enlightenment, friend. You have the most amazing research tool ever invented by man at your fingertips. Use it.

Go take that stick out of your ass before you talk to me again. I don't care what you are getting tired of. how about you just stop crying like a little whiny four year old girl!!!

"oh wah! he called it soccer and not football...wah"

It's called soccer in America, genius. I don't care what any internet site says. i don't care what it used to be called. I don't care where it originated. It's called soccer in America. Ever think there's probably a good reason why they dropped "soccer football"??? because it was stupid.

[ATL_Iron]

Weather you want to add FC to the end of a club name is upto the owners and the market they are in.

However the game is called "Football" worldwide end of.
FIFA is the worldwide governing body. The US is a part of CONCACAF and not CONCACAS.

The word "Soccer" is a slang term and used worldwide aswell, Its not American, its English. It was used heavily in the UK up until 30 years ago where its used dropped off some.

You can argue about it all you want, its not going to change that the game is "Football" even in the US. That does nothing to change the NFL or invalidates its claim to be Football, even if it is non-sensical.
Soccer could be looked at in the same way "ball" is refered to Baseball. It does not hold the sole right to the term "ball" nor invalidate other sports, but if i say, i'm off to the ball game, or even sing the song, lets go out to the ball game. you know which sport i am talking about.

I do however believe the use of the term football will become morewide spead over time, my reasons for this are:

International TV coverage of games is increasing and so is the audience.

The use of FC and other referances to Football or Futbol in the MLS

Youth training. The term Football is used in state youth training programs, i myself always use the term 'Football' when teaching kids the game.

Also associated in training are drills, books and dvd's from football governing bodies, I.E. "The FA"

All these elements will further push the term into the general populas and i think it wont be long before you start to see its use rise.

[ATL_Iron]

I would point out the the US is not unique in having multiple sports utilizing the term Football.

Any country that have major sports that are direct decendants from either Football or Rugby, as most major team sports are, use the football and soccer terms.

To claim that one is "American" or a slight to American values, is simply proposterous.

In its own history, the very first line of the NFL description uses the term.
"Rutgers and Princeton played a college soccer football game"

[DavidP]

The only pro football team in this town is the Falcons (and they are "officially" the Atlanta Falcons Football Club, or Falcons FC (I said it, not them :D) ). Since 1966. This Soccer = Football nonsense only serves to cause arguments and drive people away. The only proper full name for an Atlanta MLS franchise (and that's what it will be, not a club) will be the "Atlanta ____________, a Franchise of Major League Soccer." Of course, one could call it a quilting bee if they wanted to, but a franchise it is, and a soccer franchise at that. Sometimes the truth just sucks, but it's still the truth. Live with it, and move on. The rest of the world knows we call it soccer here, and they care about it way less than we do (I imagine they think it's funny that we have a big piss fight over it; another reason they deem us lower class). It's not like ripping a big nasty fart at a formal dinner, y'all. We call it soccer over here; big deal. Nobody else cares (nor would they respect us more if we called it "football"), so why should we (yeah; why do we have this this about looking or sounding "right" anyway, when it doesn't matter?)? Soccer it is. As long as we play by FISA :D rules, no one should have a problem.

[jade1mls]

First to say use of Football Club or Soccer Club is retarded!!!! :) You do not see Real Madrid name their basketball team Madrid Cowboys do you? So why should we adopt their culture? I'm not anti-european, but i like the sound of our names better anyways.

Actually you're wrong about the American naming tradition being overseas...read on...


This sums up my thinking on this whole thing. I suspect others may feel the same way. We all want the same things, soccer (football) to be successful in this country. I went to college for marketing so this is one subject i chime in on a lot.

This needs to be made into a FAQ every time this subject comes up...


Have you heard of the:
Stuttgart Scorpions (German Football League)
Chunichi Dragons (Japanese Baseball)
Coventry Crusaders (English Basketball League)
London Monarchs(NFL Europe)
London Captials (English Basketball League)
Frankfurt Galaxy (NFL Europe)
Shanghai Sharks (Chinese Baskeball Association)
Hanshin Tigers (Japanese Baseball)
Sheffield Arrows (English Basketball League)
Guangdong Southern Tigers (Chinese Baskeball Association)
Hamburg Sea Devils (NFL Europe)
Yomiuri Giants (Japanese Baseball)
Teesside Mohawks (English Basketball League)
Munich Cowboys (German Football League)
Liaoning Hunters (Chinese Basketball Association)
Munich Cowboys (German Football League)


So you see, the rest of the world seems to have no problem at all following our naming conventions when they play sports we invented. That this is constantly a hot topic of conversation says so much about provincialism in this country. That provincialism is expressed when one makes a statement such as "you don't see them playing "XYZ American Sports" named "XYZ plural american sounding name".... It is an unawareness of what actually goes on outside of America.

It also is shortsided and ignores american soccer (football) history where as recently as the 1960s we had soccer clubs named:


Newark F.C.
West Hudson A.A.
Metropolitans F.C.
East Newark Clark A.A.
Empire F.C.
Bronx United
Crescent A.C.
Jersey F.C.
Braddock A.S.
Hollywood Inn F. C.
Caledonians
Astoria
Hibernians
Philadelphia C.C.S.
Yonkers F. C
Jersey A.C.
St.George F.C.
Pawtucket FC
Spring Fields
Fall River S.C.
Inter Brooklyn

What changed? The dominance of the NFL and NBA as well as the NASL. If you you think it key that the league have mostly plural NFL, NBA, NHL sounding names then look no further than NASL and some of the early names of MLS. A name is just that, a name. It's what the team does on the pitch that is important.

HOWEVER from a marketing perspective: Some names say soccer. Others don't.
This is why you have soccer or football/futbol clubs around the world with similar naming conventions. This is not a EUROPE thing... This is a football (or soccer) thing. There are Uniteds, Reals and Inters all around the world...

Examples:

Maritzburg United (South Africa)
Supersport United (South Africa)
Real Cartagena (Columbia)
Real Potosí (Bolivia)
Inter Luanda (Angola)
Adelaide United F.C. (Australia)


As another example look at the past and present names of Washington DC area sports clubs/teams:
Washington Nationals, Washington Redskins, Washington Senators, Washington Brewers, Washington Cavaliers, Washington Commandos, Washington Darts, Washington Diplomats, Washington Freedom, Washington Metros, Washington Mustangs, Washington Stars, Washington Tapers, Washington Warthogs, Washington Wave, Washington Whips, DC United.

I would suspect that if you to ask anyone in the world (which includes America) which one of those is a soccer club they would likely pick DC United.

I and many others would like to see us get back to our history.. Soccer while not invented here DOES have a long history in this country. That history did not start in this country with NASL. We have clubs every year play in an Open Cup that some of those clubs above played in since the Open Cup started in 1918. On the other hand the NASL clubs never participated in the Open Cup nor in meaningful international play. NASL did a lot of things wrong, yet one thing people still seem to think they got right was naming clubs in a similar way to the NFL even though a look at attendance shows that unless your name was the Cosmos you were pretty much getting the same or smaller crowds than we get today in MLS.

MLS has a chance, perhaps the last chance in this country, to get it right. I am glad to see they have encouraged the use of classic soccer names rather than encourage clubs to adopt homogenized nfl,nba,nhl,mlb,wnba, mll style names. The idea is to build brand loyalty among a generation that grew up with the league. As I am 25 I kind of can claim I grew up with it and I also learned about European football. Now days this is the norm. Kids growing up with MLS now if they are interested in soccer are aware of Real Madrid and Manchester United, etc. Soccer no longer exists in isolation in this country due to increased communications across borders and cable/satellite.

It's how a song by a british group, The White Stripes can be adopted almost simultaneously by fans of:

AS Roma of Italy - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLcukvMcqHg

and

Portland Timbers F.C. of America - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5-sc6TXkfY

Anyway back to marketing....

A name that SAYS soccer SELLS soccer. I think that is what MLS learned in its first 10 years and is why you've had some clubs rebrand from their former names and why most new clubs have a 'classic' sounding soccer name. It's just good business marketing to make your brand stand out in what is a hugely crowded American sports market. Part of that decision starts with the name.

Back to the original point that caused me to write this: the reason you don't see Real Madrid name their basketball team something else is because THEY ARE REAL MADRID. They are already an established brand with a hundred year history and loyalty among the populace. They are exactly what MLS is not. What MLS lacks in many minds is a pedigree and a history while at the same time it struggles to establish itself as a respected football(soccer league). I would much rather we go back to our own rich footballing history for choice of names than to the NASL era.


Here's a hint: NASL only lasted from 1968-1984 while the American Soccer League lasted from 1921-1983 that is pedigree and tradition, one which had clubs called Fall River FC, New York Inter, Roma SC, Hartford SC, New York FC and Inter Brooklyn. Those are not European Traditions, they are Footballing Traditions. We all know that to be a soccer fan in the US requirers a higher level of passion and dedication especially if you're a fan of MLS. SO It makes sense to have a name that basically is identifiable as soccer.


Give me Inter Atlanta or Terminus Atlanta, Atlanta Metro, or Atlanta Terminus over Atlanta Generals any day!

[antajx]

Jade1mls
that is one historical post.the guys who have to research/think of new car names at ford should give you a job.
There is a brand in the UK that uses fcuk french connection uk in their adverts as a subliminal use of the work f..k nothing to do with the topic but kinda clever.

nice work.I like fc or united after a location club name it just sounds classic.
LA Fc(galaxy),NY Fc(metros or RB) ,Toronto Fc,Dallas FC.DC United
Other nick names linked to the clubs will always derive from the fanbase over time and be linked to history ,style of play,tragedy or just the colors,abreviation,or abuse
Manchester United: man u,red devils,busby babes,united,man ure
Totenham Hotspus Spurs,Arsenal Gunners.
imagine Tokyo Earthquakes or New Orleans hu...... (bad taste i know,i wont go there)

[Goodsport]

nice work.I like fc or united after a location club name it just sounds classic.
LA Fc(galaxy),NY Fc(metros or RB) ,Toronto Fc,Dallas FC.DC United
Other nick names linked to the clubs will always derive from the fanbase over time and be linked to history ,style of play,tragedy or just the colors,abreviation,or abuse
Manchester United: man u,red devils,busby babes,united,man ure
Totenham Hotspus Spurs,Arsenal Gunners.
imagine Tokyo Earthquakes or New Orleans hu...... (bad taste i know,i wont go there)

Or San Jose Earthquakes or Chicago Fire, both of which are great soccer team-names and ones that their respective fanbases are understandably damn proud of (Chicago's even being a historical event and all that).

But let's not pretend that teams that don't have F.C. in their name suddenly do, such as Red Bull New York and the Los Angeles Galaxy.

In any case, any future MLS team shouldn't be villified if it chooses to use the American-style naming convention ("city name" "team name") any more than if it chooses to use the European-style naming convention (F.C., United, etc.).


-G

[jade1mls]

Jade1mls
that is one historical post.the guys who have to research/think of new car names at ford should give you a job.

I'd rather a soccer club give me a job in that department ;) ;)


There is a brand in the UK that uses fcuk french connection uk in their adverts as a subliminal use of the work f..k nothing to do with the topic but kinda clever.


We have French Connection here and they initially started out with the same ad campaigns but they got into trouble with uptight people who thought it was bad taste. Never the less the fcuk t-shirts still went flying off the shelf and i still have two which i wear.


nice work.I like fc or united after a location club name it just sounds classic.
LA Fc(galaxy),NY Fc(metros or RB) ,Toronto Fc,Dallas FC.DC United
Other nick names linked to the clubs will always derive from the fanbase over time and be linked to history ,style of play,tragedy or just the colors,abreviation,or abuse
Manchester United: man u,red devils,busby babes,united,man ure
Totenham Hotspus Spurs,Arsenal Gunners.
imagine Tokyo Earthquakes or New Orleans hu...... (bad taste i know,i wont go there)

Exactly.

[jade1mls]

It should be noted that according to their website, the Atlanta Silverbacks are in some way affiliated with Inter Milan and Independiente....

Inter Atlanta

[BigKahuna]

Great post, jade....I agree 100%. I think its safe to say that I wouldn't rule out using FC, SC, or a traditional American name. However, cheap ripoffs like Real Salt Lake REALLY get under my skin. An Inter New York or Atlanta would work if the stadium was literally in the heart of the city but only in that case. The league could use a SC I think.

[Eleven Bravo]

I tell you what...i'll meet you half way

i'm still against FC because the common word for the sport in this country is soccer not football. otherwise, they should change the name to MLF(just need to add an "I" in between M & L:)). And "SC" could be confusing with South Carolina for some people and it also doesn't sound original at all.

my proposal, is SSA, SA, or SAS....Southern Soccer Association, Soccer Association, or Soccer Association of the South. Gives it a European style touch, but still isn't sell out.

S.S.A. Atlanta Marauders....gives it a Hamburger SV type presence. Now you can call the club SSA Atlanta Marauders, SSA Atlanta, SSA, Atlanta, Atlanta Marauders, or just plain Marauders. The point is you don't see people calling Hamburg- Hamburg SV every time they refer to the team, but by the official name you can tell it's a soccer team.

[ATL_Iron]

i'm still against FC because the common word for the sport in this country is soccer not football. otherwise, they should change the name to MLF(just need to add an "I" in between M & L:)). And "SC" could be confusing with South Carolina for some people and it also doesn't sound original at all.



Actually thats a great idea, tons of press coverage, and the ideas for great merchandise are endless.
rename to MILF Major League Interstate Football :D

[Eleven Bravo]

Actually thats a great idea, tons of press coverage, and the ideas for great merchandise are endless.
rename to MILF Major League Interstate Football :D

Major International (since Canada is in the league) League Football would have to be the name...haha

[ATL_Iron]

Major International (since Canada is in the league) League Football would have to be the name...haha

Could revolutionize the image of the "soccer mum" LOL

[Eleven Bravo]

Could revolutionize the image of the "soccer mum" LOL

I'd bet they make a lot of money of the t-shirts.

the new soccer mom:
http://campkitsch.com/sitebody/designs/buzzworthy/britney_spears/milf_in_training.htm

[TOTC]

that is the question.

All the threads are now turning into Europe vs. American culture, and it takes forever just to read through them. So please, let the debate begin and stay here and only here so that we can keep the other threads to what they should be.

First to say use of Football Club or Soccer Club is retarded!!!! :) You do not see Real Madrid name their basketball team Madrid Cowboys do you? So why should we adopt their culture? I'm not anti-european, but i like the sound of our names better anyways.


Well, one can imagine PSV Atlanta, or Atlanta SV, or AC Atlanta ....

[Eleven Bravo]

Well, one can imagine PSV Atlanta, or Atlanta SV, or AC Atlanta ....

if you're going to go that route...at least be a little more original.

[Stadium-Armory]

It's how a song by a british group, The White Stripes can be adopted almost simultaneously by fans of:

AS Roma of Italy - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLcukvMcqHg

and

Portland Timbers F.C. of America - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5-sc6TXkfY



The White Stripes are from Detroit, Michigan.