Charging on a headed ball?

[wjarrettc]

I have a couple of quick questions on interpretting the LOTG that have come up in my first few weeks of reffing. I have separated them into different threads as I thought they might useful to other new referees.

Red is stationary, waiting to play a header on a high ball. The ball floats over his head and Blue, running from distance with great speed, plays a fair header (all ball) and then crashes into Red (within one step) with some force, knocking Red to the ground.

Should I interpret this as reckless charging against Blue or is it a fair play as Blue cleanly played the ball before his momentum carried him into Red?

[pkCrouse]

Originally posted by wjarrettc
... running from distance with great speed, plays a fair header (all ball) and then crashes into Red (within one step) with some force, knocking Red to the ground. Should I interpret this as reckless charging against Blue or is it a fair play as Blue cleanly played the ball before his momentum carried him into Red? Jarrett,

To a large extent the answer hinges on your choice of words to describe Blue's conduct: "great speed", "crashes", "some force", "knocking", "momentum". Just because Blue is successful in playing the ball prior to the contact, that does not necessarily make the play fair. Likewise, contact after the play for the ball does not necessarily make it unfair. You must decide whether he acted "carelessly, recklessly or with excessive force". Your initial description suggests to me some degree of carelessness, if not recklessness. However, your final sentence regarding clean play and momentum do not.

Paul

[Greyhnd00]

Originally posted by wjarrettc
I have a couple of quick questions on interpretting the LOTG that have come up in my first few weeks of reffing. I have separated them into different threads as I thought they might useful to other new referees.

Red is stationary, waiting to play a header on a high ball. The ball floats over his head and Blue, running from distance with great speed, plays a fair header (all ball) and then crashes into Red (within one step) with some force, knocking Red to the ground.

Should I interpret this as reckless charging against Blue or is it a fair play as Blue cleanly played the ball before his momentum carried him into Red? Call it the same way throughout the game and the players wont fault you.......unless you are way off base from what they are used to seeing.

[IASocFan]

This issue depends a little on skill and age of the players. Based on your description, it's a close call. Consistency is probably not an issue since this exact situation rarely happens more than once in the same game. If it does, be consistent, particularly if the other team makes a similar foul.

It is like the slide tackle that gets the ball and then knocks over the opposing player. You have to judge whether the player was playing recklessly or under reasonable control. If the ball was going over the other players head, why was he stationary (a guess, I know)? Sometimes when you're not in a play, but in the way you get knocked over.

In any case, I would suggest letting the players know what you saw. E.g., "He got the ball; no foul!" or "You got the ball, but took out the opponent. Direct kick, Red."

[wjarrettc]

Originally posted by IASocFan

It is like the slide tackle that gets the ball and then knocks over the opposing player. You have to judge whether the player was playing recklessly or under reasonable control.


These type of situations are the ones I'm having the most problem with when it comes to foul recognition. I see an all ball challenge and my first thought is "nothing there" but I'm seeing too many 12-14 year old girls and boys getting crashed into recklessly after the fact. They just don't have the body control they need and I feel like they're going to hurt each other so I'm whistling more and more fouls even though they're getting all ball. I've done 5 centers now and I'd bet that I've given more DFKs each successive game.

[whipple]

What is happening is that you are starting to adjust to the referee's perspective. Ain't it amazing just how many contacts, pushes, trips, elbows, hips and jostles occur during a match. You see twice as many as any coach or parent. Parents, coaches and players only see half of them, the one's they are victims of. You get to see them all.

This is a good thing. Foul recognition is an important skill. Now you need to learn to judge effect. If a foul has no effect, then you are not to blow your whistle. It is a principle called V8 (Law 5; IBD 8).

After being in the Laws for over 100 years, FIFA dropped the specific language, but not the concept as integral to the spirit of the game, in 1998, because they thought it was so obvious and self-evident, that it did not need to be there. So much for the boards infallibility... and now they are coming back with the sleeve nonsense.

You're doing fine.

Sherman

[kevbrunton]

Originally posted by wjarrettc
These type of situations are the ones I'm having the most problem with when it comes to foul recognition. I see an all ball challenge and my first thought is "nothing there" but I'm seeing too many 12-14 year old girls and boys getting crashed into recklessly after the fact. They just don't have the body control they need and I feel like they're going to hurt each other so I'm whistling more and more fouls even though they're getting all ball. I've done 5 centers now and I'd bet that I've given more DFKs each successive game.
Find an experienced referee and have him watch a game or two and give you some feedback. It's pretty hard for us to determine from a description whether you should be calling them or not.

Also hang around and watch a more experienced referee do the same level game you're doing. Judge each "play" looking at what you would have called vs. what he's calling and learn from it.

[jacathcart]

Originally posted by IASocFan

In any case, I would suggest letting the players know what you saw. E.g., "He got the ball; no foul!" or "You got the ball, but took out the opponent. Direct kick, Red."

But doesn't saying "He got the ball, no foul" set you up for the plays that DO happen more than once a game - i.e. the slide tackles. Since we preach constantly that "getting the ball" does not make you immune from being called for a foul on the play why would we want to make a statement that the reason no foul was called on this play was that he got the ball? Why not simply say "no foul" if you feel the need?

Jim

[IASocFan]

Good point. I've got my first game of the spring next week. I haven't had a real game since October. Winter is just too long here.

[jacathcart]

Originally posted by IASocFan
Good point. I've got my first game of the spring next week. I haven't had a real game since October. Winter is just too long here.

Amen. I did my last game in December and there isn't anything until the spring tournaments in April and May. I can feel my brain cells dying and carrying away the refreshed recollection and anticipation that comes from multiple games every week.

Jim