[hou:chv] (r)

[Ref Flunkie]

Anyone watch this game? Obviously 2-3 main areas to discuss.

(1) First PK call
(2) Red card to Clark for what is reported as VC
(3) non-PK call in the final minute



(1) I thought the first PK call was soft, but likely appropriate. The one argument you could make is that it is likely he would not have made it to the ball after the touch, but I thought there was a small amount of contact which took the attacker down. He may have let himself fall a bit, but IMO there was contact

(2) I'm trying to figure out when Prus decided to give the RC. The first push seemed pretty innocent (well, not worthy of VC), but when Prus was trying to keep the guys seperated, the Chivas player ran in and got knocked down (I actually thought Prus did it, but perhaps there was something in there where Clark did something to take him down again). Do people agree that the first push was likely not the red card action?

(3) Stoner and Wynalda (as well as the Houston coach) thought this was a clear penalty. On replay, I debate that. It looked like DeRosario jumped to avoid the tackle and pretty much went down. This has been a debate before on this board...whether jumping over a tackle constitutes "tripping or attempting to trip". I think perhaps Prus was thinking back to the first PK call, and where he gave the benifit of the doubt to Houston there....on this one, he did not. Again, IMO a closer call then Stoner and Wynalda made it sound, but what do I know, I don't referee in MLS.

Any thoughts from the rest of the crew here?


The video is up: http://www.mlsnet.com/MLS/mls/sights/index.jsp?club=mls

[ZipSix]

Seemed like clear contact (tripping) from the CHV defender with no chance of playing the ball. Occured in the penalty area.

Absolutely a penalty.

[emailryoung]

Seemed like clear contact (tripping) from the CHV defender with no chance of playing the ball. Occured in the penalty area.

Absolutely a penalty.

Agreed. I don't think you'll find a cleaner example; it was a text book pk. I can only hope that it wasn't called because the referee was screened in some way.

[Ref Flunkie]

Agreed. I don't think you'll find a cleaner example; it was a text book pk. I can only hope that it wasn't called because the referee was screened in some way.

This is possible, but who knows. My guess is it was a makeup for the 1st PK, but again, no one knows but Prus.

[bluedevils]

Didn't see incidents 1 and 2, but saw the last few minutes including the non-called PK near the end. At the time, I *was* aware that Houston already had been awarded a PK earlier in the match. My first reaction after the non-call on DeRosario at the end was, I guess the referee didn't want to give a 2nd PK to the same team. If the first one wasn't a clear-cut mugging, that would lend itself to the non-call on the 2nd one.

We'll never really know why the no-call decision was made.

Did anyone happen to get a feel for the referee's positioning on this play? I did not.

From my seat on the couch, it looked like a clear PK whether there was contact or not. De Rosario definitely did not appear to dive. He made a nice move and had the defender beaten, and the defender mistimed his challenge. His attempted tackle took De Rosario out, whether there was contact or not. It was hard to tell even on replay if there was contact, but if there was no contact then this was a textbook example of 'attempts to trip' in my view.

[DadOf6]

(1) I thought the first PK call was soft, but likely appropriate. The one argument you could make is that it is likely he would not have made it to the ball after the touch, but I thought there was a small amount of contact which took the attacker down. He may have let himself fall a bit, but IMO there was contact

Agreed, good PK. Non-referees seem to believe that fouls in the area need to be "worse" in some way to earn a PK. It is unfortunate that referees provide mountains of evidence to back them up.

I include myself. I have left more than one game thinking, "I should have given a PK there."

(2) I'm trying to figure out when Prus decided to give the RC. The first push seemed pretty innocent (well, not worthy of VC), but when Prus was trying to keep the guys seperated, the Chivas player ran in and got knocked down (I actually thought Prus did it, but perhaps there was something in there where Clark did something to take him down again). Do people agree that the first push was likely not the red card action?

The ref had his arm out to separate the players but the Chivas player was coming in pretty fast. Clark put out both arms and the Chivas player went down.

(3) Stoner and Wynalda (as well as the Houston coach) thought this was a clear penalty. On replay, I debate that. It looked like DeRosario jumped to avoid the tackle and pretty much went down. This has been a debate before on this board...whether jumping over a tackle constitutes "tripping or attempting to trip". I think perhaps Prus was thinking back to the first PK call, and where he gave the benifit of the doubt to Houston there....on this one, he did not. Again, IMO a closer call then Stoner and Wynalda made it sound, but what do I know, I don't referee in MLS.

It was a clear penalty, with or without contact. I think there was contact. Look how DeR's right foot twists as he goes over the defender.

I don't like the idea that an attacker who avoids a late tackle that breaks up play will not get a call. Would it be better that he crash into the defender--risking injury to one/both of them--just to get the call?

[Ref Flunkie]

It was a clear penalty, with or without contact. I think there was contact. Look how DeR's right foot twists as he goes over the defender.

I don't like the idea that an attacker who avoids a late tackle that breaks up play will not get a call. Would it be better that he crash into the defender--risking injury to one/both of them--just to get the call?


Totally agree with you looking back some more, but I think players have brought this upon themselves in some ways. Now referees have to figure out WHY players are jumping when a tackle occurs. Are they jumping to take a dive, or are they jumping to get out of the way? It's almost more helpful (??) to watch the defender and where he ends up/how he comes in vs. the attacker in this case.

[Englishref]

Five showed this game here at 3.50am this morning, so I recorded it. First penalty is the sort that always gets given, yet very rarely is there much, if any contact at all. This one was the same.

The red card I'm yet to see an act of VC, apart from that from the referee. ;) It's the first time I've seen a player sent off for a push to the chest, and I'm pretty saw I saw the player in the red/white stripes throw a punch in the first place, yet got away scot-free.

Haven't seen the rest yet, so I look forward to seeing the second pen.