What has changed?

[Luchito]

Remember these classics:

England - Germany 1966
Italy - Germany 1970
Italy - Brazil 1982
Germany - France 1986

Are we likely to see games like these in the future? I dont think so, unless something changes.

Since about 1990 I havent seen anything that may be classified as a good offensive display (in big matches), yet I've seen several good defensive performances.

I think something fundamental has changed in world football. Cant say exactly what, but IMO it has tilted the advantage towards defensive-minded coaches/schemes - just look at the two WC finalists.

Do you agree there is a problem? If so, what could be done about it? revise the off-sides rule? revise the card system?

[saabrian]

The increased amount of money in soccer has led to increased pressure and thus big teams playing not to lose rather than to win.

From 1930-1986, every one of the 16 World Cup finalists scored at least one goal in the final.

Since 1990, half of the 10 World Cup finalists have failed to score in the final. In fact, this year's game was the first time since 1986 that both finalists scored (though tellingly, neither was from the run of play)

But it's not just the World Cup. The Liverpool-Milan game was the first European Cup final since 1962 where both teams scored at least twice (something which happened in 5 of the first 7 finals). Maybe that undercuts the 'it's recent' thing. But there were no 0-0 European Cup finals from the first one in 1955 through 1985 and it's happened 3 times since 1986.

[bestianera]

I'd like to see the no-offside line be moved from the center pitch to 2/3 of the pitch. That would stretch the offenses and consequently the defenses = more room to operate for forwards and cretive midfielders.
But maybe all we'd get is a long-ball revival from the british isles?

[Twenty26Six]

Remember these classics:

England - Germany 1966
Italy - Germany 1970
Italy - Brazil 1982
Germany - France 1986

Are we likely to see games like these in the future? I dont think so, unless something changes.

Since about 1990 I havent seen anything that may be classified as a good offensive display (in big matches), yet I've seen several good defensive performances.

I think something fundamental has changed in world football. Cant say exactly what, but IMO it has tilted the advantage towards defensive-minded coaches/schemes - just look at the two WC finalists.

Do you agree there is a problem? If so, what could be done about it? revise the off-sides rule? revise the card system?

The overall quality of coaching along with the increased athleticism and talent of the secondary and tertiary player has combined to decrease space and time for the star player.

[footychick]

While players are getting more skilful and often more enjoyable to match, there are a number of things which still spoil football, both on and off the field. Diving is a major one. Another thing which seems to spoil football nowadays is the amount it costs to get into a game. It used to be a lot cheaper, but the prices now are why a number of teams are finding themselves with empty stadiums week in-week out. One of the rules in football which really ticks me off is when a player has to go off if the trainer has come on to treat them, it's ridiculous!!

[saabrian]

Well you can't talk about diving without talking about its evil twins: shirt grabbing/obstruction. They're two sides of the same coin.

[AFCA]

Remember these classics:

England - Germany 1966
Italy - Germany 1970
Italy - Brazil 1982
Germany - France 1986

Are we likely to see games like these in the future? I dont think so, unless something changes.

Since about 1990 I havent seen anything that may be classified as a good offensive display (in big matches), yet I've seen several good defensive performances.

I think something fundamental has changed in world football. Cant say exactly what, but IMO it has tilted the advantage towards defensive-minded coaches/schemes - just look at the two WC finalists.

Do you agree there is a problem? If so, what could be done about it? revise the off-sides rule? revise the card system?

Football is a much more difficult game nowadays. There is more knowledge and the differences have simply gotten smaller due to increased professionalism.

I don't agree that there is a problem. Sure, some tournaments (1990 especially) were crap. Some CL finals were crap. So what? That game is being played for the fans of the respective teams. Not for me or for you.

If you're in a world cup final or CL final or whatever, you want to win. For many teams this means 'anything but lose'. There is nothing wrong with that.

I've said it a million times, in the end it really doesn't matter how much the 'neutral fan' is enjoying himself.

[Luchito]

Football is a much more difficult game nowadays. There is more knowledge and the differences have simply gotten smaller due to increased professionalism.

I don't agree that there is a problem. Sure, some tournaments (1990 especially) were crap. Some CL finals were crap. So what? That game is being played for the fans of the respective teams. Not for me or for you.

If you're in a world cup final or CL final or whatever, you want to win. For many teams this means 'anything but lose'. There is nothing wrong with that.

I've said it a million times, in the end it really doesn't matter how much the 'neutral fan' is enjoying himself.

You're right, asking wether this represents a problem does not make much sense; it depends on who we are talking about.

I dont agree, though that only 'neutral fans' are put off by overly defensive, results-oriented football. A lot of my fellow Real Madrid followers like to say that the team must not only win, but also put on a show ("dar espectaculo"). Just look at the discussions about Fabio Capello and his style of football in the Madrid section.

[Luchito]

I'd like to see the no-offside line be moved from the center pitch to 2/3 of the pitch. That would stretch the offenses and consequently the defenses = more room to operate for forwards and cretive midfielders.
But maybe all we'd get is a long-ball revival from the british isles?

I'd love to see them experiment with ideas like this one (somewhere outside the British Isles, perhaps).

[Milliano]

I've said it a million times, in the end it really doesn't matter how much the 'neutral fan' is enjoying himself.

Perhaps us neutrals just have to adjust.
I mean, cheating is one matter - but quality defensive football is another.
I really enjoyed watching the 06 World Cup. I wouldn't have enjoyed it if I wasn't able to enjoy high quality defensive football.

Luchito, I think you're right that some fans want their team to play a particular way. Perhaps they care more than neutrals. I can understand that - for example if you're a member of the club, and pay loads of money each season to watch and support them, there is plenty of reason to join in on a demand for the team to play a particular way.

[Warbuxx]

Football is a much more difficult game nowadays. There is more knowledge and the differences have simply gotten smaller due to increased professionalism.

I don't agree that there is a problem. Sure, some tournaments (1990 especially) were crap. Some CL finals were crap. So what? That game is being played for the fans of the respective teams. Not for me or for you.

If you're in a world cup final or CL final or whatever, you want to win. For many teams this means 'anything but lose'. There is nothing wrong with that.

I've said it a million times, in the end it really doesn't matter how much the 'neutral fan' is enjoying himself.

Yes it does.

Of course teams will play for their fans. It is the responsibility therefore of governing bodies of various sports to make sure that the rules are such that even a team playing for its fans will still have to produce play of a type which will be attractive to neutrals. This is simple common sense. This is why finals in Tennis, American Football, Aussie Football, Basketball, etc. tend to have a greater percentage of enjoyable matches than finals in soccer. They've figured out this obvious basic principle. Association Football still acts brain dead.

Any sport that doesn't understand that neutral fans do matter to a good degree has no business promoting itself to these neutral fans. Don't splash pages and pages of newspaper with articles telling us that such and such a great match is coming up. Don't promote the World Cup and the Euro Championships and the CL on TV and in print with hype inducing us to fork out big bucks for tickets and TV Channel subscriptions or to invite our friends over so we can hook them on soccer. Just be honest and tell us that the teams will most likely play for results and not to expect.....you know, "entertainment". Be honest and admit that soccer has become a game of cynicism and that no one cares about neutrals.

Soccer survives because the sports inherent beauty and specialness seeps so deeply into the psyches of the neutral fans that they are willing to put up with 3 bad matches in order to see that one sublime good match that is greater than anything most other sports can offer. But this isn't good enough. It's embarassing and frankly, it's STUPID. The sport needs to shape up, stop this nonsense about "real fans appreciating any type of play"; figure out how to increase space on the field (the idea of an offside line should at least be experimented with again in youth tournaments etc.) and cut out the negative play.

[saabrian]

"I've said it a million times, in the end it really doesn't matter how much the 'neutral fan' is enjoying himself."

Of course it does. Not to the coaches or players, mind you.

If only 120 million people watched the World Cup final (ie: every single citizen of France and Italy), I bet it would matter a lot to FIFA and to the broadcasters. If neutrals are irrelevant, then ABC should've only broadcast US games.

And I don't even accept the premise that non-neutrals will put up with boring, negative play. Some will, but a lot won't. Maybe in the short term, they will but in the long term they'll vote with their wallets.