Allowing the coach onto the field when a player is injured?

[bluedevils]

Not sure how much value this has as a poll, but thought I'd make it into one anyway. I've long wondered in what matches it is / is not appropriate to allow the coach to enter the field when attending to an injured player. It would seem in a professional or international match when the teams have full-time trainers and/or doctors, the coach does not enter the field - although perhaps he/she might, in the case of a serious injury?

Anyway, do you typically allow the coach to check on an injured player? In what matches do you allow it or not allow it? What is your reasoning behind why you allow/disallow the coach to enter the field?

[bluedevils]

I've long wondered in what matches it is / is not appropriate to allow the coach to enter the field when attending to an injured player. I cannot recall any guidance about this from FIFA/USSF, but I could be missing something.

It would seem in a professional or international match when the teams have full-time trainers and/or doctors, the coach does not enter the field - although perhaps he/she might be allowed, in the case of a very serious injury?

Anyway, do you typically allow the coach to check on an injured player? In what matches do you allow it or not allow it? What is your reasoning behind why you allow/disallow the coach to enter the field?

Perhaps the decision boils down to simply, if a trainer is available (from the team, the site, or the competition, then the coach is not allowed on the field. If no trainer is available, then the coach is allowed.

Or maybe there are other factors - age of the players (youth vs. adult), etc.

[refmike]

For U10 and below, the coach and parent will run in before you can try to stop them. It is OK. Mention that they should wait for your signal but don't expect them to comply. This may go to U12 recreational games but by U12 competition, you should be in the habit of signaling the coach to wait while you check on the player, then either signal to stay off or come in. By U14 they should know to stay out till you call them in. Beyond that the coaches stay out and the medics come in so the situation is different.

[refmike]

For U10 and below, the coach and parent will run in before you can try to stop them. It is OK. Mention that they should wait for your signal but don't expect them to comply. This may go to U12 recreational games but by U12 competition, you should be in the habit of signaling the coach to wait while you check on the player, then either signal to stay off or come in. By U14 they should know to stay out till you call them in. Beyond that the coaches stay out and the medics come in so the situation is different.

[Statesman]

I'm not so interested in allowing a coach to tend to a player so much as somebody who is a registered team official with a pass. Then it's a matter of who has the background to assist the player. Last I checked most coaches have no medical training, so they are often not the best choice.

I typically do a short checklist with the player to generically assess the severity of the problem, unless visual cues clearly indicate there's a major issue of course. Sometimes players go down thinking they are more hurt than they really are, but once they stand up and move around a bit they are OK. Here's the list as I recall:

"What's hurting? How bad is it?"
"Are you able to keep going?"
"Are you able to stand up?"

That's basically it. If the player believes he is hurt enough to not stand up, or once up cannot keep going, then I'll ask somebody from the sideline to assist. The team will send out whoever they believe is best, I'm not going to judge that. The only criteria be that they have a pass so that if they try any crap I'm able to throw them out.

[nsa]

For U10 and below, the coach and parent will run in before you can try to stop them.Y'all have seen those nature films - Never get between Mama Bear and her wounded cub. :)

[intechpc]

I ref our local rec league, U10-U14 games, and have never had a parent come on the field before I've stopped play. Our league has an unspoken sportsmanship rule where the kids will all sit down if they notice a player injured. Of course if someone's on a scoring drive, they're less likely to accomodate, but the parents and players all understand the concept.

There are times too where I have to stop play before the kids even realize there's an injury. I've also let play continue at times when the injury did not appear searious and the player was out of harms way. However, usually only at the older age groups.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect parents/coaches to stay off the field until play is stoppped. It's a safety thing for both them and the players. Some coaches will come out the minute I stop play others will wait for me to check the player and wave them on. I don't really have a preference one way or the other.

[cdin]

Anyway, do you typically allow the coach to check on an injured player? In what matches do you allow it or not allow it? What is your reasoning behind why you allow/disallow the coach to enter the field?
I'm not sure I understand you question because it seems pretty simple to me. You always let a coach check on an injured player after play has stopped. As a referee you shouldn't take any action to treat or assess the injury. Coaches are trusted by the players and parents where you are a stranger.

If you question is when do you stop a game for an injury that is a little different. It depends on the age level, skill level, and severity of the injury.

The younger the kids the more likely I am to stop a game. Personally I don't like stopping the game at around the U13 or U14 level. I think the kids should know to kick the ball out by that age.

The lower the skill level the more likely I am to stop a game. Lower skill kids are less likely to know the sportsmanship aspects of the game. If they won't kick it out you may need to stop the game.

The more severe the injury the more likely I am to stop the game. I try to let the kid make the decision as to how severe the injury is, unless it's obvious. I will usually talk to the kid ask them if they need a sub. There are exceptions to this rule. One of the instructors here in Wisconsin tells a story where a player in one of his games broke his arm. The player just stuffed his arm in his shorts and wanted to continue playing. He obviously had to stop the game.

Hope this helps.

Chris

[MassachusettsRef]

I'm not sure I understand you question because it seems pretty simple to me. You always let a coach check on an injured player after play has stopped. As a referee you shouldn't take any action to treat or assess the injury. Coaches are trusted by the players and parents where you are a stranger.He's talking about non-youth matches, or maybe even high-level youth matches where there's a team trainer. If there's someone else there specifically to assess and deal with injuries, what's the point of a coach entering the field?

[bluedevils]

If there's someone else there specifically to assess and deal with injuries, what's the point of a coach entering the field?

From the coach's point of view, it gives him an opportunity to do some coaching (which shouldn't be happening) and also gives him an opportunity to yell at the referee (which shouldn't be happening)!

It crossed my mind specifically for adult men's matches and also things like PDL. Adult men's, you typically have no trainers on hand. So presumably you let the coach come on the field. Something like PDL or a high-level youth or adult regional tournament, trainers will likely be available. Presumably you should keep the coach off the field.

[bluedevils]

I'm not sure I understand you question because it seems pretty simple to me. You always let a coach check on an injured player after play has stopped. As a referee you shouldn't take any action to treat or assess the injury. Coaches are trusted by the players and parents where you are a stranger.

Actually, at the 2006 USSF National Referee Training Session, the head physician for US Soccer gave an interesting presentation that included his view that the referee is the first line of medical evaluation for the injured players. He felt that this 'initial diagnosis/evaluation' of the player's health and safety was an integral part of the referee's duties. I was a little uncomfortable with how far he felt the ref's duties/responsibility stretches. Definitely an interesting talk, and he explored some topics I hadn't thought about all that much until hearing his talk.

[IASocFan]

Duplicate threads merged!

[billf]

I recall Grahame Souness being allowed onto the field while he was with Blackburn when it was clear a player was seriously injured, it may have been Barry Fergueson, and was going to be out for some time.

[cdin]

Actually, at the 2006 USSF National Referee Training Session, the head physician for US Soccer gave an interesting presentation that included his view that the referee is the first line of medical evaluation for the injured players. He felt that this 'initial diagnosis/evaluation' of the player's health and safety was an integral part of the referee's duties. I was a little uncomfortable with how far he felt the ref's duties/responsibility stretches. Definitely an interesting talk, and he explored some topics I hadn't thought about all that much until hearing his talk.On a basic level where the injury is obvious I agree. If a player has a broken arm or Brian McBride style knot on his head then you definitely take the appropriate action. However, I'm not going touch the player or determine if the player needs a sub unless it's obvious.

[Wreave]

For youth soccer, I'll allow a coach onto the field for an injury any time either he or the player wants it. At younger age groups, I even tell the coach before the game, "If I stop play for an injury to one of your players, you have automatic permission to come onto the field if you want." This makes the point that play needs to be stopped before they come on the field, and saves me from the foolishness of waving on a coach that is already halfway across the field. These are teams that have a couple coaches, but no special medical personnel.

The questions to ask the player - "can you stand up?" "can you keep playing?" - make a lot of sense. Thanks for sharing those.

In general, our responsibilities seem to be to ensure the player's safety and to keep the game moving. If having the coach on the field is supportive of either of those, it makes sense. If the coach is not tending to the player, but rather coaching, that delays the restart and isn't supportive. It's a fine line sometimes... worst case scenario, keep an eye on your watch and add time as appropriate.

[bluedevils]

I recall Grahame Souness being allowed onto the field while he was with Blackburn when it was clear a player was seriously injured, it may have been Barry Fergueson, and was going to be out for some time.

That was one of my follow-up questions: do you typically allow the coach or other team personnel on the field in matches when there is a trainer/doctor available? I had a game earlier this year in which a player was seriously injured. An ambulance had to be called, 20+ min delay, etc. The coach and team owner ended up coming onto the field to check on their player. I had no problems with this, but it could cause problems depending on the nature of the injury, whether the team feels it was foul play and/or bad refereeing that contributed to the injury, etc.

[refmike]

If you do call the coach onto the field to attend to an injury, as they come out you back away so they don't have an opportunity to say anything to you. This prevents the problems you are concerned about.

[Law5]

Don't make a problem where there shouldn't be one. I don't care who comes on to treat an injury. You can let on whomever you want, but if you are refusing entry to people who are coming out to help an injured player there is going to be a problem. I don't care what their medical credentials are and it's none of my business.
When I've called someone on, however, I get out of the neighborhood, away from the benches. If someone wants to come talk to me instead of attending to their player, they are going to have to pass the player to get to me. A simple "coach, please take care of your player" should suffice to make clear where the line is for someone who does approach you.
When I've got a player who appears to possibly be injured, I do not ask questions as specific as "Where does it hurt?" What would I do with that information? I phrase it more in terms of "How are you doing, six?" or "Man, that must hurt. Do you need a sub or do you want to stay?" Show empathy and find out if you need to call someone on for them. That's it. We are not doctors.

[Statesman]

I do not ask questions as specific as "Where does it hurt?" What would I do with that information?"My head."
"My ankle."
"My arm."
"My back."
"My neck."

Of those five responses, which indicate to you something potentially more serious or not? That's what you do with that information. If somebody has a head, neck, or back injury you need to get someone on the phone for an ambulance ASAP. If they just hurt their arm, ankle, leg, etc then it's not as serious. If they hurt a leg or ankle you know they probably will need help walking off, so you should call for the sideline to help. If it's just an arm you can ask them to get up and go to their bench on their own.

There's plenty you can do with the information on where a player is hurt. You're not diagnosing the injury, you're determining the potential level of seriousness and just how much help the player might need.

[bluedevils]

The other day I did a game in which the home team's GK was injured. Some blood. Trainers were working on him in the penalty area. It took a couple minutes to get him cleaned up, and they ended up subbing him out. While he was being cleaned up on the field, I noticed the coach on the field headed toward the GK. I hadn't 'invited' him onto the field, but he had come on anyway. He was not happy about the incident which led to his GK taking the knock, and muttered some gripes to both me and the opposing players and coach. It didn't escalate, and the coach went off the field without being asked.

In this sort of situation, would you ideally try to prevent the coach from coming on the field to check up on his injured player, or would you let him on knowing that it might cause some dissent or other 'situation' or what?