Ballouchy

[USAin2006]

I'm watching the RSL-Real Madrid replay right now, and this kid looks fantastic. Apparently, he's been in the States since he was 16, but also represented Morocco at the u-17 level. Has he been naturalized? Has he expressed interest in playing for the USA?

I'm not even sure how good he is, but I like what I'm seeing tonight. Claudio is history, and I'm not sold on Donovan as our playmaker. Adu is a few years off yet, and who knows if he'll ever be allowed to play in the middle anyhow (though I think that's where he does best).

What does anyone know about this kid?

(note, mods, wasn't sure where to put this, feel free to move)

[dark knight]

From your post it sounds like he isn't eligible, but I'll let people confirm before closing.

[sokol]

Everything I've read about FIFA's laws says that a person who has played for his country at the youth level can only switch if he was eligible to play for another country at the time he was capped. Ballouchy is currently not a US citizen, although I've heard he's pretty close to getting citizenship. But the fact that he wasn't a citizen when he played for Morocco makes him ineligible.

However, John Ellinger said once on a radio interview that he thought Ballouchy could be eligible. Ellinger, being the former u-17 coach, is probably well versed on the rules. So perhaps there is a loophole somewhere. One thought I had was that maybe if Ballouchy only ever played in friendlies it might not tie him to Morocco. Playing in a senior friendly doesn't cap tie you, so probably youth friendlies don't either. But I don't know what kind of games Ballouchy played in (in fact, do youth teams ever really play "friendlies" besides scrimmages against non-national sides?). Or Ellinger could just be mistaken or said something in response to an unexpected question without really thinking about it.

He is having a great year, even more so since he started playing in the middle instead of the wing, and since Carey Talley also started playing in the middle. He's not ready to become a center midfielder for the national team, but he has the potential. I think he will certainly win rookie of the year.

[Knave]

Ballouchy is currently not a US citizen, although I've heard he's pretty close to getting citizenship.
Really? I've heard he's pretty far. I'd think the RSL fans would know for certain.

[sokol]

Really? I've heard he's pretty far. I'd think the RSL fans would know for certain.

I am an RSL fan and I recall hearing he is close from way back when he was drafted. Just going on logic though, if he came when he was 16 and he's 23 now, that's about 7 years. IIRC 7 years is the minimum requirement for citizenship.

And here's a quote from an article (http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/soccer/15151660.htm) from a few weeks ago.

Ellinger believes the Moroccan-born Ballouchy, who is in the process of obtaining American citizenship, could play on the U.S. national team one day. ``He can be the No. 10 on that team,'' Ellinger said, referring to the attacking-midfield role. ``If that's what he wants, he can get it.''

The soft-spoken Ballouchy said he is undecided about which country he wants to represent in international competition, adding that it's a non-issue at the moment because he hasn't been called by either federation.

"In the process" could mean anything, but it almost certainly means he has at least begun filling out papers and things like that. And that probably means he has met or is close to meeting the requirements for having lived here long enough, otherwise it would be pointless to do the paperwork.

That article also comfirms that both Ballouchy and Ellinger seem to think he could become eligible.

-edit-

I completely forgot that sandonmibut pointed out to me that Ballouchy doesn't even have a green card, which would mean he is far from citizenship. Of course, couldn't he potentially marry an American and get instant citizenship?

[Craig P]

Everything I've read about FIFA's laws says that a person who has played for his country at the youth level can only switch if he was eligible to play for another country at the time he was capped. Ballouchy is currently not a US citizen, although I've heard he's pretty close to getting citizenship. But the fact that he wasn't a citizen when he played for Morocco makes him ineligible.
That's true of play in an official FIFA or confederation competition (in this case, CAF) or qualifiers thereto. If he's only played in friendlies, then he would not be tied.

[Sandon Mibut]

-Sigh-

This needs to be a sticky.

Ballouchy is listed by MLS as a youth or junior international.

That means, that despite living in the US since he was a teenager, that he still isn't a permanent resident, ie, have a Green Card. Trust me, if he had a Green Card, RSL would be quick to let us know because foreign spots in MLS are limited and it would be better for the team, not to mention the player.

The road to citizienship in the US requires permanent residency. Once you get a Green Card, it usually takes between 5-7 years to become a citizen.

If Ballouchy got his Green Card tomorrow, he'd still be up against a tight timeline for the 2010 World Cup.

Now, there are exceptions like marriage and acts of Congress and what not. So he could accelerate this process. But barring that, it ain't gonna happen for Ballouchy and the US anytime soon.

The lesson here for players who come to the US and hope to one day play for this country is to start the citizenship process ASAP. Being here on a student visa doesn't get the clock moving, but work visas, do.

For example, Dema Kovalenko came to the US as a 14-year old - on a student visa - and when he turned pro seven-years later, he didn't have a Green Card and despite the fact that he's 29 now, he still isn't a US citizen. He got his Green Card about 4 years ago - don't remember exactly when, but it was after he'd come to DCU - but he'd already been a pro for a couple of years by then.

Contrast that with Carlos Llamosa or Freddy Adu who had Green Cards almost immediately when they came to the US and how fast they were able to become citizens and play for the US.

Our immingration laws are really tricky, but the reality is that for most players that come to the US as adults, the time it takes for them to get naturalized is so long now that they usually aren't in their prime by the tme they are eligible. I read these stories about kids playing college ball or PDL here who hope to play for the US and, while I'm heartened by it, I know the odds are that it's never gonna happen because they'll be in their 30's before they are sworn in.

It's too bad, because I do think Ballouchy is a very good player who could help the US, and that there are other kids in college, PDL, MLS and even the USL who might be able to crack the national team if they became citizens in their prime.

But, there is a reason that there hasn't been ONE player who came to the US to play in MLS who has become a US citizen and gone on to play for the US. Yes, MLS players have become naturalized - Cunningham, Mastroeni, Preki, Llamosa, and some others - and played for the US. But they came to the US as kids or had been living here for a while before MLS started.

Nor, for that matter, have, since MLS started, any of the myriad foreign kids who come to the US on soccer scholarships every year become US citizens and played for the US. (They may have become citizens, but none are playing for the US.)

None.

[Sandon Mibut]

Also, regarding Ballouchy's games with Morocco, odds are they were friendlies and thus don't matter in terms of cap-tying him. If they weren't friendlies, he has not shot at playing for the US as he's cap-tied under FIFA rules.

Often times having a camp or two with a national team ends up on a players' college bio and that sticks with him and later gets misconstrued. He may have actually played for Morocco in games that matter, but I suspect that would have been included in his bio by now.

I know he didn't play for Morocco at the U17 World Championship because Morocco didn't qualify when he was age-eligible. Ballouchy is an 83 and the year the 83s were age-eligible, 99, the African representitives at the U17 WC were Ghana, Mali and Burkina-Faso.

http://fifa.com/en/comp/PrevTeams/0,6838,U17-1999-19,00.html

Theoretically, he could have played up two years earlier as a 14-year old at the 97 U17 WC, but again, Morocco wasn't there. (Host Egypt, Mali and Ghana had the African spots.)

I wouldn't even know where on the Web to look for lineups for African U17 World Championship qualifiers from the 90's, but I suspect that Ballouchy didn't play in them and thus is OK in terms of being cap-tied.

Unfortunately, I think it's a moot point for awhile because of his citizenship issues.

[FirstStar]

I completely forgot that sandonmibut pointed out to me that Ballouchy doesn't even have a green card, which would mean he is far from citizenship. Of course, couldn't he potentially marry an American and get instant citizenship?

2 year wait for citizenship, I believe. I've a good friend who moved from London a little over a year ago. He married an American and he's still waiting (even though his two children already have passports). He mentioned that he's on an expitided track because of his wife's status.

[swedust]

Enjoy him in MLS and hope USMNT-eligible developing players (kids 12-18) can learn from watching him.

Plus, gotta say: I dig the hair.

[IndividualEleven]

Maybe this is something FIFA should look into as a way of leveling the playing field between National Teams.

Some countries have more stringent citizenship laws and others will expedite citizenship for 'special talents'.

If a player has spent for example 5 years in a country as a resident and hasn't played for the youth or senior nts of his birth country, then he should be allowed to play for the country of his residence.

[superdave]

2 year wait for citizenship, I believe.
3, I think. I'd have a better idea if my wife wanted to become a US citizen.

Marriage gets an foreigner permanent residency, but NOT instacitizenship.

[superdave]

Maybe this is something FIFA should look into as a way of leveling the playing field between National Teams.

Some countries have more stringent citizenship laws and others will expedite citizenship for 'special talents'.

If a player has spent for example 5 years in a country as a resident and hasn't played for the youth or senior nts of his birth country, then he should be allowed to play for the country of his residence.
Why should a country that is hostile to foreign residents in general be allowed to benefit from their soccer talents?

[DaPrince84]

Maybe this is something FIFA should look into as a way of leveling the playing field between National Teams.

Some countries have more stringent citizenship laws and others will expedite citizenship for 'special talents'.

If a player has spent for example 5 years in a country as a resident and hasn't played for the youth or senior nts of his birth country, then he should be allowed to play for the country of his residence.
so FIFA should step in and say what makes someone a citizen? thats oversteppin their boundaries

sh*t, if u do that, then the whole Arsenal youth system would become English citizens...

[halfnelson31]

Maybe this is something FIFA should look into as a way of leveling the playing field between National Teams.

Some countries have more stringent citizenship laws and others will expedite citizenship for 'special talents'.

If a player has spent for example 5 years in a country as a resident and hasn't played for the youth or senior nts of his birth country, then he should be allowed to play for the country of his residence.

Sounds like what rugby does but it is only a three year wait. That is how a Kiwi like Mark Van Gisbergen gets called up to the RFU Elite Squad.

[striker]

3, I think. I'd have a better idea if my wife wanted to become a US citizen.

Marriage gets an foreigner permanent residency, but NOT instacitizenship.

I think the time it takes to get citizenship after one has summitted the application depends partly on which INS (or whatever it is called now) office one applies to. Different offices have different backlogs. I got naturalized 4 years ago and it took me less than 1 year (from San Antonio).

[IndividualEleven]

Why should a country that is hostile to foreign residents in general be allowed to benefit from their soccer talents?

I don't think the US is 'hostile' to foreign residents. Countries have differing rules on the length of time it takes to become citizens, but if someone has been living in the US for a good length of time and established their lives here then they should have the opportunity to play for the US. Hell they can fight and die for this country...

[IndividualEleven]

so FIFA should step in and say what makes someone a citizen? thats oversteppin their boundaries

sh*t, if u do that, then the whole Arsenal youth system would become English citizens...

No, FIFA should step and say what makes someone eligible for a National Team.

I'm guessing the Arsenal youths are integral parts of the NTs of the home countries and left to go to England to play soccer. This wouldn't apply to them.

[superdave]

I don't think the US is 'hostile' to foreign residents.
:confused:

Didn't say we were. I just think the rules should be the same for dishwashers as for soccer phenoms. For all nations.

[Smoga]

3, I think. I'd have a better idea if my wife wanted to become a US citizen.

Marriage gets an foreigner permanent residency, but NOT instacitizenship.

I see you guys are in need of expert opinion. :)

These are the basic rules for naturalization:

3 years after becoming Permanent Resident if Permanent Resident status was acquired by marriage to a US citizen (note that you must still be married to that same US citizen, and you can't even be separated for the 3 year rule to apply).

5 years after acquiring Permanent Resident status in some other way (i.e. through employment, parents, asylum etc).

Because the process takes a while, the applicants can file their naturalization forms 3 months prior to the 3 or 5 year period.

There are other special rules for members the military, and of course one can become a US citizen through a private bill in Congress, which I believe was the case with Regis.

There are some other ways that one can be eligible for immediate US citizenship, as opposed to naturalization, but that person must have parents who were US citizens at the time of the person's birth, and those rules get very complicated if only one parent was a US citizen. However, if this is the case with Ballouchy (ie one or both his parents were US citizens), he perhaps would have been eligible to play for the US National team even without knowing about it.