What's The Story...?

[in da soup]

hey guys been away a while with work hope ur all doin well.

got a lot of catching up to do hope some of you can help me out...

how is the appointment of basile being received?

personally i think it's a bit of a regressive step, but i know hardly anything about him, i remember his previous stint in charge, but that was so long ago, where was he coaching since then and going to boca? anybody know? and how successful was he? i'm talking the ten years or so after he left the national side...

in 94, i think the maradona episode shook all the morale out of the side, i think basile could have done more to rally the troops and not let it defeat them, just as lippi did for italy this summer with all the italian scandal going on.

or am i being unfair to basile, was there nothing more he could do?

of course the wc is still fresh in the memory but the pain has subsided just a little, what peker did against germany was astonishing, but we must get over it, it was an extraordinarily costly error, for me his inexperience showed at the top level, something that won't happen w basile, but peker had his good points too.

up to the germany game i thought peker had successfully rid the team of the anger and anxiety that sometimes characterises our play, we played w confidence, we seemed relax, in short, we played without fear.

when we concentrate on just playing, it is extraordinary how enticing the argentines play, it is an education to the watching world.

against germany, our demons came back to haunt us, in the first few minutes, the germans made one or two rash challenges, our players immediately got embroiled in confrontation and talking to the ref, they seemed highly strung.

because germany were the home side, because there seems to be a distrust of fifa from an argentine perspective, i think there was a certain amount of paranoia, not only from the players but the fans also, indeed i read many posts on this forum and articles in the argentine press espousing conspiracy theories.

for me, we were the infinitely more capable side, we should have attacked them more, not worried about factors which were beyond our control, been confident enough in our ability to know we could overcome them no matter what.

the germans won fair and square, but in my opinion we let them.

in the semi, i thought the germans made some pretty bad tackles against italy, which went unpunished by the ref, but it was noticeable the italians didn't complain or get involved in confrontations, they kept their cool and kept on attacking germany until they broke them down, hitting the woodwork three times and eventually scoring two great goals.

it was an exhilarating game but i couldn't help thinking, it could have been us, in my opinion we were better than italy, or had more potential, we should have been the stars of the wc, but lippi is a great manager, experienced w the pressure that top level football brings, he seemed to get all his decisions right.

the point of me covering old ground is this...

when you have the quality of players that argentina has, the appointment of the coach is so important.

have we got it right?

i'm sure there's been many threads on this topic, but what are your views now?

has basile made any indication which direction he'll go in?

will ustari and aguero come in?

gago?

will the old guard be discarded?

personally i hope crespo's days are over, but i will be sad to see ayala bow out without a major title, what a bloody good player.

who will be captain?

what of roman?

pupi?

so many questions.

if basile hasn't made any indications so far, what are your guesses, going on your knowledge of him and his methods?

thanx for any responses.

[efernandez9]

gago and maradona (caso basile) tienen sus propios threads

the rest is here: http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=1093

for you to get uptodate

welcome back

[in da soup]

hey man, cheers.

[Pekerman]

o looky. It's IDS!

Basile did the best he could to elevate the morale at the time. Argentina lost against a good Romanian side in what was the most entertaining game of the tournament. The players played with guts and pride. Tactically I thought that Basile was very limited but he has shown some improvements with Boca. He is a obviously lot more experienced now.

It was not really that hard for Lippi to use the scandal as extra motivation. Italy won because they were the sneakiest. That is how I view it. Nothing extraordinary about the quality of their players. Other than that they have all the traits of a winner: determination, lack of nerves, luck...

I am done ranting about this World Cup. Watching Messi outshine Ronaldinho in that friendly against some team from New York while remembering how fragile the German defense was during our game makes me really wonder what was going on in Pekerman's mind. I guess we will never find out.

[smd9]

o looky. It's IDS!

Basile did the best he could to elevate the morale at the time. Argentina lost against a good Romanian side in what was the most entertaining game of the tournament. The players played with guts and pride. Tactically I thought that Basile was very limited but he has shown some improvements with Boca. He is a obviously lot more experienced now.

It was not really that hard for Lippi to use the scandal as extra motivation. Italy won because they were the sneakiest. That is how I view it. Nothing extraordinary about the quality of their players. Other than that they have all the traits of a winner: determination, lack of nerves, luck...

I am done ranting about this World Cup. Watching Messi outshine Ronaldinho in that friendly against some team from New York while remembering how fragile the German defense was during our game makes me really wonder what was going on in Pekerman's mind. I guess we will never find out.

pekerman not playing messi boggles my mind everyday. I thought i was over this world cup, but i think about it everyday i'll never be the same again. i think i need professional help.:p

[in da soup]

however lippi played it, in regard to the scandal, it clearly worked in his squad's favour, and for that he deserves immense credit.

italy were under huge pressure, more so than usual, because so many of their representaives were implicated in the scandal, and their demanding fans were baying for blood.

not only that, but his substitutions seemed to always work, he knew exactly who to bring on and when.

put simply, he played a blinder, and more than any player (buffon, cannavaro, zambrotta, grosso, pirlo, gattuso, all of whom had great tournaments) he was the reason for italy's triumph.

just as ultimately, sadly, peker was responsible for our exit.

mind you, when you look at lippi's record in top flight football, there's no doubting he's a top coach.

i've been away awhile, so i'm sure these topics got covered.

what of basile?

where has he been since 94 and has he been successful in that time, prior to his recent stint at boca?

does he have a record of being conservative, reluctant to give kids a chance, or does he believe in youth?

does he pander to egoes, or can he be ruthless and make tough calls when he has to?

personally, i would take the captaincy off sorin, he is by no means a certain starter, not in my book, tho he's a useful player.

milito is so good, for me i would play him in central defence and push heinze to left-back.

i have doubts about heinze at centre-back, and doubts about sorin defensively.

this way we would be far stronger defensively, in the wc ayala was often holding the defence together on his own, particularly against mexico.

besides, i'm sure all the players thought of ayala as the real captain, he certainly played like it.

if basile deems ayala's time to have passed, i would strip sorin of the captaincy and give it to mascherano, i know he's young but he has the authority and maturity for the role, and there's no way he's ever going to be dropped, he's way too good and he's only going to get better.

i'm undecided about what to do w riquelme, but certainly, we can't have an over-reliance on him, as peker had, because there's no evidence he's quite up to the task in the crunch games at the highest level, as diego was for example.

you just can't completely build your team around someone who might malfunction, it's too risky, having said that, i think riquelme is a superb player who is often marked out of games by the opposition, for that reason, you have to work out ways of bypassing him.

with messi, tevez, el kun, masche, gago, gonzalo, burdisso, ustari all establishing themselves, the future should be bright, if basile gets it right.

[Moishe]

Welcome back IDS. I like the appointment of El Coco but not as much as I would've like to have seen Bianchi. Still nothing to get upset over. Basile I'm sure has grown as a coach since 1994. His recent run at BOCA gives some credibility to this last statement.

I wouldn't expect to see the old guard disbanded just yet. I still see a solid mix of youth and experience. Ayala is the elder statesman of the group at 33 so the chance of seeing him at the Copa America is slim but possible none the less. Zanetti I would hope would gets some more matches before his career is over. Riquelme as well isn't done. I do agree with you about the over reliance on Romy. Like you I too blame Pekerman for this. I don't think their was much secret as to what player other teams were going to mark out. Pekerman used two defensive style mids instead of putting a Messi or Aimar to take the pressure off of Roman. When Pekerman did do it, we all saw how well it worked.

While I agree that Mascherano will one day be our captain, I don't think he has yet shown the same passion that Sorin plays with. I think Javier will eventually gain that feeling but right now I don't see anyone playing with the same pure love of the game as Sorin. Reckless abandon would be the best way to describe Sorin and right now we don't have anyone that shows those kinds of pelotas yet.

As for the youth our future is brilliant. I was lucky enough to have seen Messi play live both against Club America and the Red Bulls and was almost in tears when he scored against New York. The kid is so wickedly fast that you don't appreciate it until you see him play live. Aguero, Ustari, Gago.........they all make dealing with this past World Cup more bearable. Forgive the rambles of the first buzz of the day and again welcome back.

[Pekerman]

Basile will use our talent, of that there is no doubt. He is a big fan of Messi, Aguero and Tevez. Expect some very offensive football. I suggest that you watch some Boca games because they reflect Basile's style perfectly. Just imagine what he could do with all the NT talent at his disposal.

It is really time to move on and be realistic. The "old-guards" will not feature in 2010. I want Zanetti and Ayala to get few more caps because their experience can be very valuable for the youngsters. Riquelme is a player who is not needed in the establishement. There are better and more liable options.

I suggest you read some of the threads you might have missed, especially about upcoming talents.

[Aguero]

"Riquelme is a player who is not needed in the establishement. There are better and more liable options".

If Riquelme is not picked then who will take are free kicks? I know Tevez is good at free kicks but I am not sure if messi or Aguero ever take them.

I would like to see Messi take over Riquelme's position, with Aguero and Tevez as strikers.

[Leon12]

IDS,

To be honest I thought Italy were a very ordinary side, in what turned out to be a very ordinary tournament. The one team that could and should have stood out (they did all to briefly) was Argentina, but sadly when it really mattered Pekerman lost his nerve and made 2 of the worst substituions in the history of football against Germany.

When you analyse it, Italy played 2 decent sides to win the world cup, Germany and France (and the French had to beat Spain and Brazil enroute to Berlin) and France outplayed them in the final (Italy had one effort on target in the whole game). Where Lippi did well was in the game against Germany, where he held his nerve and went for the win. Other than that Italy have to be one of the most ordinary sides ever to win a world cup. That's not bitterness, just my honest opinion.

[in da soup]

thanks moishe, you're pretty eloquent when you're buzzing so don't worry about it, i envy you going to those games, i too saw messi play live, against chelsea in london last year, and i was staggered at his pace and skill, in fact every chelsea fan in the ground nearly had a hernia everytime he touched the ball :D

it makes his omission from the germany game all the more unfathomable, but hey, that's history i suppose.

i agree w much of your post.

i too was surprised bianchi wasn't offered the job, after all, as far as i know, he's currently out of work and has a great track record in s america.

i don't know the ins and outs, like i said i'm way out of touch, but i know bianchi refused the job once before, perhaps he and grondona have issues, which would be a darned shame.

as for the old guard, i agree w pekerman on this, they're not going to be around in 2010, which is what we should be building for, i would fast-track the youngsters asap, give them tournament experience in the copa america, but i understand that players like ayala and pupi have a lot of knowledge to pass on.

as for sorin being captain, i know what you mean, but for me, the captain has to be someone whose place in the side is always assured, i think sorin's place is under threat, i love him for his heart and balls, but does he automatically make our best eleven?

i'm glad basile is seen as a good appointment, he may not be everyone's number one, but it seems he is acceptable to everybody, so that reassures me.

where did he go after 94, was he successful? did he have a previous stint at boca?

leon, i agree with every word, but for me, this only magnifies lippi's achievement.

italy didn't possess the attacking flair of argentina, not by a long chalk, but he got everything right, in terms of personnel, formations, substitutions, spirit etc.

you're right, against germany he held his nerve and showed his class as a coach. the dortmund stadium was the most intimidating for any away team facing germany, indeed germany had never lost there before that game, but on a mental level, his team were totally on the money. they weren't worried about the crowd, the ref, or the opposition.

italy knew they had the better players so they decided, rather than take the sting out of the game and try to quieten the crowd as argentina had, to attack them from the start and wear them down.

it might have helped him that he had seen argentina come unstuck with a more cautious approach.

it was quite a game.