Wright & Upson; the right move?

[Jeff L]

With tonight's game now upon us, and with the difficulties affecting the team in certain positions, and the rest of the coming week also being "BIG", (isn't every week!), one now reflects on the logic of Richard Wright and Matthew Upson departing Highbury.
Apparently from the players' perspectives, both were ready to leave. However their judgement surely must be questioned as such a young age for each player, knowing that to displace (logically) Seaman and Keown would only be within a season or two, and then a glittering career at Highbury would have awaited both.
Ah, the folly of youth!
From the clubs point of view, it was considered that Wright, like Manninger, had had his chance, and was not quite "the (W)right (!) replacement.
Upson on the other hand, I feel was, and could have been. By his own admission, life was getting "too comfortable" knowing that not playing each week did not exactly mean getting out of bed early or turning down that extra beer on a night out.
I certainly don't question Wenger's judgement on these calls, as, if they wanted to go, then not a great deal more could have been done to persuade them to stay (I assume), but the current replacements, as far as the defence is concerned seems to be wanting. "Steps" is too far off of regular match practice, and Cygan has not proved to be as good as first hoped, as has been shown on more than one occasion, last Saturday being one performance to reflect on.
The goalkeeping department is slightly different with the unfortunate leg break of Shaaban, but then, why sign a player who is "cup tied" for the Champions League?
The circumstances surrounding his "freedom" to move were okay, but not if he is unavailable for vital games.
The question (or concern) now is, will this week be "make or break" for the rest of the season, and if "break", should the above mentioned positions have a part to play in that area, then....."where do we go from here"?

[martymarts]

Matty Upson was constantly complaining about not playing, when not injured. Perhaps AW just got sick of his belly aching! The shame is, I watched him playing for Birmingham at Man City the other day. He played pretty well. Might be a ? mark over his basic fitness though, he was pulled-off when Birmingham were chasing the game.

I don't think Wright is good enough to play for England or one of the big clubs. He bottles it when the pressure's on.

Football clubs are still strapped for cash and it's likely that rules will be relaxed, to allow loan transfers between premiership clubs (this might have kept Upson on Arsenal's books), and hopefully there will be a lot of talent on offer in the summer. Arsenal have always been canny about spending money, if not downright mean. With all extra cash being funnelled off to the new stadium, don't expect too many big money transfers over the next few years!

[Lanesra]

I don't think Wright leaving is too much of a problem, shaban looked ok, the injury of course was very unfortunate, Upson on the other hand was a big loss, in my opinion he is far better than both Steponovs & Cygan and would have been an ideal replacement for keown when he retires, strong in the air, comfortable on the ground and fast!..apparently the 2nd fastest at the club. Despite what Arsene says I feel we will be in the market for a new center half come summer.

[phishy]

i would feel somewhat confident if we had upson anchoring the backline tis evening, but that said.... who do you think we should be looking to get in the transfer market this summer? a centre-back is a definite need right now.. i brought out the name of LUCIO last week, but are there any other suggestions?

phishy

[fox point fury]

I've been pondering a similar question for some time now. While we've been very successful in obtaining offensive players during AW's reign, the same can not be said of our defensive moves.

This team was built on a legendary defence which has been falling apart for some time now. Of course players get older as time marches on, but I feel that Arsenal should've made more substantive moves to address this years ago. Yes, Sol was a great capture, but I wonder how much of that was Arsenal's doing and how much was simply Sol's desire to stay in England. Ash has broken through very well but beyond him what have Arsenal done to fix this problem?

It's obviously too early to talk about a number of youth/reserve defenders, but I think that's indicative of the problem instead of an answer to it. I'm glad that we have a strong group coming up in the next few years but that does nothing for us right now. Neither do players like Luzhny, Stepanovs and (it now seems) Cygan.

We have a reserve-team keeper playing in the CL, we have midfielders playing as wide backs and we've recently seen a midfielder play center-back in the EPL. Unless some of those reserve/youth players are going to be ready for first-team action in September Arsenal need to spend some serious cash to plug the holes this summer.

As for the original topic of the thread, from what I read on soccernet's match tracker, Upson could've done a much better job than Cygan did tonight. Not having seen the goals I can't say anything about Taylor, but I know I'd be more confident with Wright between the sticks.

[jwaldman11]

I don't have a problem with letting Richard Wright go, as Taylor's been capable when he's been in there. I didn't see any of the goals either, but, from what they said on UEFA's radio broadcast, it was more defensive breakdowns, including one by Cygan...AGAIN.

That leads me to my next point. Losing Upson has been a huge problem, because Cole and Keown have been hurt and Cygan just keeps costing us goals. I think that's the main thing we need to look at in the offseason. We need to have better defenders available off the bench or to start in case of injury. I like Kolo Toure a lot, but he's young and still needs to develop a little more. And Cygan barely looks like he could play on the reserve side right now. I'm begging Arsene to look for a solid central defender to back up and eventually replace Keown.

[Martin Daoust]

I look at it a bit differently. While maybe Upson would have done better tonight and thus leave us rueing his leaving this year I'm not so certain myself. He has suffered a series of serious injuries and one must praise him simply for coming and even at the level he has. But I think in the long run he would not be the man to partner Sol if only because of his bad luck with injuries. I think the failure to keep Wright could haunt us for far longer. Many question Wright-but remember this. He joined Ipswich still in the Nationwide First Division. He was in goal when they won promotion to the Premiership and in his year with them they reached Europe. When he left, Ipswich were relegated. Since he joined Everton they are (right now) qualified for the Champions League.That may seem a bit simplistic-no team is determined by one player, but the only common factor in the two sides success is Richard Wright in goal. I think Arsene Wenger's biggest mistake so far was not playing Wright ahead of Seaman at Cardiff last May. That might have pushed Wright toward leaving.- instead of staying This was one area that if Wright was still here wouldn't need upgrading or replacing. We could focus on the centre-half position or bringing in a classic BIG striker to help us through in Europe instead of getting another new keeper. It will be interesting to see how it plays out...

[Big Blue Evil]

Martin,

I don't think you can put our defensive woes down to the fact that Richard Wright organised the back four well. Don't forget that he spent a large amount of time injured himself last season. Taylor has done an admirable job whenever he has played.

Losing Upson on the other hand has and will continue to hurt us. We need to buy 2 experienced central defenders. Defenders who can lead the back four. Sol cannot do it himself, and Martin won't be there beyond this year. Maybe another option is to give someone like Tavrilidis or Volz a shot.

[Lanesra]

I don't like to critisise our players, but Cygan is just not good enough to play in our team, or the premiership for that matter. The mistake he made last night, in my eyes confirms this, 20 yards forward of the line, making a tackle that should have been meade by a midfield player, leaving a huge hole where he should have been. As for new center halfs IMO the best one, Woodgate has already gone. The sad fact is though, as said by others here, we blew it at home, not last night.

A friend of mine once said to me, whilst watching Arsenal lose to York in the 80's.. "If a woman hurt you as much as this you'd leave her" I always think of this on nights like last night...COME ON YOU GUNNERS !!

[michaec]

I agree with the majoprity sentiment here that Wright is not a great loss as in Taylor and Shabaan there are two decnent, promising goalkeepers on the books to back up Seaman. However, I can't see either of them stepping into the number 1 spot on a permanent basis in the very near future. This is a problem as Seaman can't have too much left in the tank.

As for Upson, I have been calling for a couple of years now for him to be given a run in the team, firstly a couple of years ago at Keown's expense when he was the weaker link of the Adams/Keown partnership and then definitely this year ahead of Cygan, who's just not up to scratch. I can't agree with Jeff's opening post that it's Upson's shortsightedness that has cost him a future career at Arsenal, I think it is more Wenger's resistance to putting in youth players when an opening becomes available unless absolutely forced to. Upson was well within his rights to leave when Wenger bought an average cenbtre half at the start of the season (Cygan) and insisted on playing him ahead of Upson who obviously thought he would never get his chance. His good form for Birmingham recently, in a poor side, proves how good a player he is. Don't forget that Cole only got his chance after Winterburn was sold and then Silvinho had passport problems. If not for that he'd still be languishing in the reserves or filling the left back spot of another club. No, Wenger prefers to shoehorn midfielders into defensive positions (Lauren is NOT a full back) instead of giving good youngsters a chance (Volz the German U21 right back and captain). Van Bronckhorst is another example recently of this tendency. Constantly saying that he rates the young players at Arsenal, but never giving them a chance isn't good enough. Does he think they're that stupid enough to believe him and waste their careers away playing in the Highbury reserves?

[martymarts]

Michaec - I agree with everything you say. We have a first class youth team, organised by Liam Brady, and most of it is being groomed to play for other clubs! We need to work harder to create opportunities for the younger players to get their chance. Look at Wayne Rooney, a 16 year old who ended our unbeaten run; praised up the ying yang by AW! In his defence though AW is in a difficult position. Once we committed to the new stadium success became imperative to pay for it. Makes it harder to try the untested.

I also agree that AW's habit of playing mid-fielders as wingbacks does not work in Europe, and increasingly not in the premiership either.

[OPArsenal]

Rami looked good before he broke his leg, but I must say that Taylor looks outstanding. He's the real deal and a fitting replacement for Seaman (not next season, mind you, give him a few more years). As for Cygan, let him go!!!!! Sell him to ManUre or Sp*rs. He already acts like he wants the other team to win...

Vive le AFC!

OPArsenal

[dwinkler]

Matthew Upson had the option to stay at Arsenal. Wenger made it clear to him - at least verbally - that he wanted him to stay. Upson, after admittedly having given up on Arsenal (see below), decided to move to Birmingham.

As I said at the time, I'm glad he's gone, if for no other reason than it proves that intelligence isn't exactly his strong point. Had he waited around a few months he'd have seen Keown retire. He'd have seen Cygan's confidence collapse. And he'd have certainly been in our recent starting lineups, either at central defense or left back.

Around the time of his move, Upson was quoted in a piece in the Guardian. I don't have the link to the entire piece, but I do have a few choice quotes:

It becomes very easy not to live right when you know you won't be playing and I was starting to find that a problem at Highbury - not sticking to my proper diet or limiting my social activities," he says.

You get sucked into this zone where you are enjoying life and all the luxuries that you can afford as a well-paid young man and not having to play the matches. That can be a dangerous mindset, even if it is not your fault that you have nothing to focus on at the end of the week.

So he's saying that he didn't have the self-discipline to keep training properly, even though he was the 4th choice central defender. And he had "nothing to focus on"? Like a chance at first-team football isn't enough of an incentive?

And do you think the poor diet and not limiting his social activities might have had anything to do with the frequent injuries? Or been the reason Wenger was reluctant to give him playing time?

Upson gets a break these days because 1) he hasn't played enough for anyone to establish whether he's good or not, and 2) because he's English.

Meanwhile, Cygan's an easy target. He's a newcomer, he's easy to spot, he has the misfortune of having to play where Tony Adams did, he hasn't been playing well lately, and he came to us from Lille, which, frankly, most people don't know a thing about.

If anyone bothered to do any research on him, they'd easily find evidence that he's capable of being influential:

In September 2001, Henry Winter wrote in the Telegraph: "At the back for the French, Pascal Cygan, the bald No 3, had been outstanding in the air and on the floor, breaking up attacks with effortless ease." This was after Lille came within 50 seconds of holding ManUre in last year's Champions League. (For those of you who don't bother to pay attention, Lille is a team that plays soccer in the French league. They were in the CL last season. Cygan was their captain. Lille had risen through the ranks of the French league, having been recently promoted from the second division before their surprising run in the Champions League.)

I'd much rather have Cygan, a guy who has clearly paid his dues, than Upson, a guy who sounds like a spoiled brat and who couldn't be bothered to work his ass off in training every day to force his way into the squad. (And has anyone noticed Birmingham's form since Upson joined?)

**********
As far as youth players not getting a chance, I know we've had this discussion before. Ashley Cole's not the only precedent - Jeffers, Toure (22 yesterday), Stuart Taylor, and Aliadiere are all young players who have been given opportunities to play under Wenger.

**********
Midfielders as wingbacks? Lauren is more defender than midfielder these days. He makes one appearance or so a year for Arsenal in midfield. He might play there for Cameroon, but it's not often, and didn't he quit international play? And Gio plays LB from time-time for Holland, doesn't he?

[phishy]

wink,

are you bent outta shape bout this or what?
damn

[martymarts]

Dwinkler - Hear what you say about Cygan, but not with you on Lauren and Gio. Neither are natural full backs and week after week Lauren shows that he is uneasy in his defensive duties. I would much rather see an old fashioned back like Luzheny get the nod, when fit. Gio has done okay at left back, but so far we have seen him struggle badly against pace. He can only do the job when he gets good coverage for the middle of the park and I think the lack of this has been our biggest problem latley.

On the youth question, how many first team chances have the likes of Pennant, Aliadiere, Tavlardis, Voltz and the rest had lately? We only bought Jeffers because he was getting the exact opportunity at Everton that he could never have gotten on Arsenals' books!

[Jeff L]

So many points raised on this thread, all of which hold merit. It's a personal and individual choice concerning most of them, and if we were all AW then our own preferences would prevail.
However, from my point of view, it was okay to let Wright go, and also Upson, if he wasn't prepared (as with Wright, at ssuch young ages) to battle for future positions.
Cygan, in earlier games, I thought did well, but current form has let him (and Arsenal) down. When a draw would have been enough, I would have thought that Luzny would have deserved a "run out". A defensively minded full back, on a night, when Wiltord lose possession in the "right full back" area may have been prevented by OL22, and a more stable defence overall.
I am beginning to question AW's signing of "average" replacement and cover of French players, such as Cygan, the new goalkeeper, and previous signings on the basis that they are French.
Upon's own statements of a "comfortable life" as a reserve should have spurred him on to take the place ahead of Cygan and other challengers to partner either Campbell or Keown, instead of heading off to Birmingham, and (eventually) Nationwide football.
All I hope for is that he "sees the light", matures, and becomes another Keown, who returned to Arsenal via Aston Villa and Everton. Whether or not it might be too late by then, I know not. Perhaps his place might be filled by yet another Frenchman, not in the mould of Adams/Keown/Bould/Campbell that lack that "British steel" at the back that has made Arsenal so famous over many years. If that can be maintained, together with the Gallic/European flair up front of Henry/Pires (dare I say) Wiltord "et al", then we will have the necessary to dominate not only England but Europe too.
Until the front and back of the team compliment each other in determination, then "total domination" is still a dream, rather than a reality.

[fox point fury]

Originally posted by dwinkler
Midfielders as wingbacks? Lauren is more defender than midfielder these days. He makes one appearance or so a year for Arsenal in midfield. He might play there for Cameroon, but it's not often, and didn't he quit international play? And Gio plays LB from time-time for Holland, doesn't he?

The fact that they get stuck there doesn't mean that they belong there, regardless of how frequently they get stuck there. AW has done well with converting certain players' positions (Henry from winger to striker the most obvious) but it is clear this hasn't worked nearly as well in defense as it has in offense. I will grant that Gio is being used as he should- as cover when the first-choice LB is out- but I don't think that is the case with Lauren, who has been the "first choice" RB for some time now.

[michaec]

Originally posted by fox point fury
The fact that they get stuck there doesn't mean that they belong there, regardless of how frequently they get stuck there. AW has done well with converting certain players' positions (Henry from winger to striker the most obvious) but it is clear this hasn't worked nearly as well in defense as it has in offense. I will grant that Gio is being used as he should- as cover when the first-choice LB is out- but I don't think that is the case with Lauren, who has been the "first choice" RB for some time now. Couldn't agree more. Just because they are played there doesn't mean it's right.

Cygan has no pace and has a tendency to switch off, as can be seen on the first goal on wednesday night. He's what, 28? He should be at his peak right now, not making novice mistakes. It showed that a half-fit Campbell shone alomngside him. Also, I bothered to do some research on him;). We have lost eight games in the league and Champions League this season. The link between all these games? You guessed it, one P. Cygan esq.

Upson was well within his rights to leave. He was pushed down the pecking order by a very ordinary recruit from France, it must have been demoralising for him and it sounds to me like he realised that he was going off the rails and got himself out of the situation. I've seen him twice live for Birmingham (They're on Sky all the time at the moment!?) and he's played excellently both times as well as getting his first call up to the England squad.

The manager has made some very good buys for small amounts of money, no-one can argue with that. But there goes with it a responsibility to admit when you're wrong. Cygan, Wiltord, Toure and Kanu are plainly not good enough to be in the Arsenal squad. Lauren and van Bronckhorst are not full backs although I would keep both as they look a pretty useful pair of midfielders to have in the squad. These issues need to be addressed in the close season.

[phishy]

WILTORD isnt good enough?? lets not knee jerk too hard mate~

phishy

[swahby]

i miss upson
in my opnion he was very good
his only probs was injuries