Baptista

[Shen-O]

Out of all the players on our squad, if Reyes stepped up, that would make the biggest positive difference to our squad. van Persie too.

[Realwood]

so 5 mil and a player who Arsenal simply doesn't need, unless he magically converts to a proper cm/dm? No thanks.
I still hope all this reyes bull blows over and he stays.

Well than I wouldn't read this morning's AS. It doesn't look good and if the quotes in the paper are true, which is a maybe, than he is really not acting with dignity. The only people he needs to tell that he wants to be in Real is Arsenal and his agent, he doesn't need to keep telling the entire world. We got it.

The transfer will happen if Madrid pay up, which I'm not sure will happen. This could be another long drawn out transfer. Awesome-o.

Wenger really likes Baptista and that is enough for me. If he comes in than I'll be happy about it. It's not like getting Baptista is keeping us from bringing in a CM/DM. Wenger is who is keeping us from bringing another CM/DM, he seems to be happy with what we've got apparently. And the fact that Gilberto is vice-captain speaks volumes, they aren't going to spend big money on his replacement. Wenger has made his bed with Gilberto and we will have to live with that decision.

[marakana10]

That's because we'll likely still be playing a 4-4-2 in league with cesc as our attacking mid.

Everyone should remember that Baptista is a converted holding mid, and has limited creative passing skills. I don't see how that works for Arsenal.

that's what everyone thinks... but that's not the case.

After Madrid saw last season that he can't play in that position they put him back where he is best and he started playing better and better.

[Cannon]

My issue with a possible Baptista transfer is how to incorporate his time at Real Madrid with his earlier performances into a good judgement of his potential for Arsenal. I get the feeling that some of the people in this thread with a very negative view of Baptista only started watching him after he moved to Madrid. If that is the case, then they saw a very different player than the one I've watched since he played for São Paulo, my favorite team in Brazil (where I admit he looked average). If any of you saw how he destroyed Madrid when playing for Sevilla, you must also be wondering what happened when Madrid bought him.

I think people haven't applied the same standard to Baptista as they do other players after they switch clubs. Sure, people on this board say that we need to give JAR even more time to adapt to playing in England but Baptista critics came out just after he moved to Real. When you factor in the silly way that he was used early last season and the overall disarray and tactical confusion at the club, I think Baptista had a decent season. His play improved a great deal towards the end of last season. Compare that to how he did at Sevilla...where he was a great player and got them into europe qualification spots almost by himself. I think his shaky start of at Madrid really hurt his confidence which didn't seem to return until about 2/3 of the season was over and he was finally put is a position to succeed.

I don't see Baptista as an always present starter if we get him but he'd be a good supersub and could be a great asset for games without Henry and/or where we go with a more counter attacking/set pieces strategy. Baptista is a very strong player and we could certainly use some added strength against some opponents that push our creative but slight guys around. I for one would have loved to send the Beast in against Newcastle last season when they were just bullying us off the pitch. He is very good in the air and despite what some say here he can create scoring chances from nothing based on quick bursts and impressive power. Baptista has usually been a hardworker although at times he seemed a bit at a loss in Madrid's tactical wackiness. Sure he isn't the best on the ball with his limited dribbling but his power helps him retain the ball and push right past defenders when he gets to run at them. He is an average passer with limited creativity so he wouldn't make a good playmaker second striker as some have suggested. My point is that he does have something to offer so getting him as part of a sale of JAR wouldn't be a horrible idea...although I'd still prefer cash.

[0-Point]

You cannot be at Real, targetted by Barca & Arsenal and a Brazllian international with poor passing,ball control and dribbling technique! - I'm not 'aving it. :)

[tmaker]

Batista's okay, but he can't hold a candle to Rey Misterio.

http://reymysterio.com/images/reycrouched.jpg

What? Not that Batista? Sorry, I should read more closely.

[ports485]

You cannot be at Real, targetted by Barca & Arsenal and a Brazllian international with poor passing,ball control and dribbling technique! - I'm not 'aving it. :)

Baptista is really very un-Brazilian for a Brazilian. If that makes sense.

His passing is average if you consider him a forward. Poor if you consider him a midfielder.

His ball control and technique aren't half as bad as people are saying, but they're not his biggest strength either.

I really don't think Baptista would fit in our 4-5-1, but he might have a place in our 4-4-2 for Premiership matches.

4-4-2:

Henry-Baptista

Rosicky-Gilberto-Fabregas-Hleb


4-1-4-1:

Henry

Rosicky-Ljungberg-Fabregas-Hleb

Gilberto


If we get Baptista, we'll be getting him as an alternative to Van Persie and Adebayor up front in our 4-4-2 and MAYBE to fill in a midfield spot in 4-5-1. He brings some elements we don't really have (physical strength, aerial ability) and has a proven record of scoring goals.

He'd be great to have if we have injuries and lots of players out of form. But if Van Persie hits a vein of goalscoring form and the midfield stays healthy, it'd be pointless to have Baptista.

[gunner0007]

IMO we dont need Baptista. RVP and Abedayor i think will be enough. RVP i think will have a good season and Abedayor will be there if necessary. Walcott will be doing the Cup think and every now and then may get some Premier playing time.

Baptista is really very un-Brazilian for a Brazilian. If that makes sense.

His passing is average if you consider him a forward. Poor if you consider him a midfielder.

His ball control and technique aren't half as bad as people are saying, but they're not his biggest strength either.

I really don't think Baptista would fit in our 4-5-1, but he might have a place in our 4-4-2 for Premiership matches.

4-4-2:

Henry-Baptista

Rosicky-Gilberto-Fabregas-Hleb


4-1-4-1:

Henry

Rosicky-Ljungberg-Fabregas-Hleb

Gilberto


If we get Baptista, we'll be getting him as an alternative to Van Persie and Adebayor up front in our 4-4-2 and MAYBE to fill in a midfield spot in 4-5-1. He brings some elements we don't really have (physical strength, aerial ability) and has a proven record of scoring goals.

He'd be great to have if we have injuries and lots of players out of form. But if Van Persie hits a vein of goalscoring form and the midfield stays healthy, it'd be pointless to have Baptista.

[titihenry147]

so ok.. baptista = rvn? am i right?

[GoonerMan]

i dont see where all this baptista hating has come from, i seem to remember last summer people saying that he was essential. everyone was gettting really hyped about him coming, if even heard someone say, and i quote ''having Hleb without baptista in the team is like having a single hand trying to clap on its own.'' and i can see what they mean if ur looking at hleb to be a crosser, which to be honest, i havnt seen him do much of. but that could be because of the way we play. i do really like baptista and it'd be nice to see him hanging around the squad but im yet to be convinced that he is really what we need at this moment.

[0-Point]

Baptista is really very un-Brazilian for a Brazilian. If that makes sense.


Toto comprende - the same thing has been said about Gilberto, but not every Brazillian has it like Zico etc...my point is you have to be way above average to play for the aforementioned teams. Therefore if he were to sign you'd be getting,moderately speaking, a decent player and I doubt too much time would be spent on the bench.
If strength is his strength then why not look in Holmes Place for someone?

[nucgunner]

so ok.. baptista = rvn? am i right?

Not in the slightest. From reading this thread I get the feeling that he's the most misrepresetned player in world football.

He's a second striker/attacking midfield, but not a playmaker like Bergkamp. Lots of pace and power, running up through the middle, scoring on the run, and getting into the box. I think he'd be perfect in the 4-5-1, playing the way Freddy did last year (pressurizing all over the midfield, then breaking forward at pace), but with ALOT more goalscoring threat. He's no def. midfield, but he at least knows enough of that position to allow other mids like Cesc and Rosicky to break forward without having to worry as much about their defensive duties. He could then be subbed with RVP who plays more advanced and has more playmaking abilities to make it the 4-4-2 we're more familiar with. Unlike the folks on this thread who keep saying Baptista would be redundant, I think he'd give Arsenal alot of attacking options just by making that switch between Baptista and Van Persie. It's like two different teams.

[AFCfan4ever]

38 actually, but whose counting?

Oh and FYI, he's not a forward.

Yeah you're right...38 in La Liga.

51 in all comps. though so I was somewhat right. :D

Still impressive either way.

[titihenry147]

hmm nuc ur posts makes it all clearer now.. unless wenger decides to weave so of his magic again and transforms bap into a striker ala henry..

[ports485]

Toto comprende - the same thing has been said about Gilberto, but not every Brazillian has it like Zico etc...my point is you have to be way above average to play for the aforementioned teams. Therefore if he were to sign you'd be getting,moderately speaking, a decent player and I doubt too much time would be spent on the bench.
If strength is his strength then why not look in Holmes Place for someone?

Actually Gilberto is quite skillful in my view. He's just slow as molasses and sketchy on his distribution. But his touch can be flawless at times.

I don't think anyone is saying that Baptista is UNskilled. Anyone who's seen him play would know that. He's just not the typical Brazilian in that his dribbling and technique aren't what make him a good player.

In my opinion, that's not a bad thing at all. We have Henry, Van Persie, Hleb, Reyes (if he stays), and Walcott (if he plays). Plus Fabregas and Rosicky. We're not lacking dribblers or technicians.

[phishy]

If we get Baptista, we'll be getting him as an alternative to Van Persie and Adebayor up front in our 4-4-2 and MAYBE to fill in a midfield spot in 4-5-1. He brings some elements we don't really have (physical strength, aerial ability) and has a proven record of scoring goals.


total credibility loss.
you do realize wenger already stated he wants baptista as a DM.

[titihenry147]

thats juz wrong.. bap with his tackling is just a lousier version of gilberto.. we dun wan that now do we?

[Miles Brasher]

thats juz wrong.. bap with his tackling is just a lousier version of gilberto.. we dun wan that now do we?

nah, wa wee wan is some1 hu tipes ace...


...of course if you've just finished off your 10th beer I apologise :)

[0-Point]

Actually Gilberto is quite skillful in my view.

A view I happen to share. He's been playing the percentages since arriving in england.

molasses

Ever had that with grated farinha and milk...mmmmm(Sorry off topic) He seems relatively quick.

He's just not the typical Brazilian in that his dribbling and technique aren't what make him a good player.

Now you done confusing me...people have been lauding the way he runs with the ball and going past players or is it through 'em like a Bowling ball? Either way That's a good attribute for a DM to have when coming from deep or on the break, I reckon SS would be a secondary function IF he were to sign.

[ports485]

total credibility loss.
you do realize wenger already stated he wants baptista as a DM.

Find me that quote, mate. I don't remember AW even saying he was interested in Baptista this summer, much less wanting him at DM. He wanted him last summer, but as a striker, and instead we got Ade in January.

Here are the facts:

Baptista was brought over to Sevilla as a relative no-name defensive midfielder. He was switched to an attacking position and scored goals by the bucketload for two seasons. Suddenly every big club wanted him.

Real Madrid signed him. Played him back in midfield most of the time. He did not perform well or score many goals. His passing was inadequate. His tackling was average. He no longer had much of a reputation in the European game. Injuries meant he was put in an attacking position again. He started scoring goals and rediscovering his form.

The verdict on Baptista is that he is an attacking player, who underperforms when playing defensively in midfield. His best trait is his goalscoring. Without it, he'd still be at Sevilla or in the Brazilian league.

So you're telling me AW wants him to play DM......right.