Possession Players Analysis

[Hustletown]

In my opinion, one of the greatest weaknesses of United States soccer overall is a lack of ability/ingenuity to play in the closed down spaces of top level international play.

I define a possession oriented player as one who can at least do these things:

1. Comfortable on the ball and/or advanced dribbling skills
2. Can hold the ball in traffic
3. Can make the accurate pass in traffic

One thing I noticed at the World Cup was how uncomfortable most of the team looked on the ball aside from a few stretches. Whenever we got into closed down spaces it seemed to always result in....back pass, back pass, back pass.

In my opinion, the major reason why Mexico matches up better with top soccer countries than we do is because of their ability to play the tight space and possession game well. They are much more deep in talent and technically sound than we are in that regard.

Regardless of who the next National team coach is, I hope our more talented possession oriented players will get a long look because I think those are the kind of players who could help upgrade the side right away. I believe we do have some of those types available.

Landon Donovan, Freddy Adu, Ricardo Clark and Justin Mapp come to mind right away but I know there are more. I want to leave that open to all of you. I would not classify Eddie Johnson or DaMarcus Beasley as sound possession players at this time. Dempsey is improving his possession game, and is getting there quickly.

Please list and breakdown any of our more talented possession players that will be USMNT eligible in the next cycle, and also the topic I'm presenting on the importance of possession at the top levels of International soccer.

[sidefootsitter]

.... One thing I noticed at the World Cup was how uncomfortable most of the team looked on the ball aside from a few stretches. Whenever we got into closed down spaces it seemed to always result in....back pass, back pass, back pass. That's Arenaball - Onetouch über Alles, even if it creates a negative backpass.

Holding the ball however is strictly verboten.

Landon Donovan, Freddy Adu, Ricardo Clark and Justin Mapp come to mind right away but I know there are more. One player doesn't fit here and you know who it is.

BTW, if the new coach plays a 4-4-2 Box, I hope Brad Davis gets a chance to play on the left side of deep midfield. Going with a destroyer was one of the most foolish things Arena had ever done.

[Deuteriumoxide]

That's Arenaball - Onetouch über Alles, even if it creates a negative backpass.

Holding the ball however is strictly verboten.

One player doesn't fit here and you know who it is.

BTW, if the new coach plays a 4-4-2 Box, I hope Brad Davis gets a chance to play on the left side of deep midfield. Going with a destroyer was one of the most foolish things Arena had ever done.

Clark and Davis looked really classy together in the center of the midfield for Houston today.

[ugaaccountant]

In my opinion, the major reason why Mexico matches up better with top soccer countries than we do

I'm not conceding this as a true statement. Who exactly has Mexico beat in a WC recently? Sure they did well in the Confederations but it's just not the same.

[sidefootsitter]

BTW, speaking of possession without penetration, Arena seemed to borrow a little from Fergie at ManU, a type that prefers quick one-touch movement of the ball where mostly and only wings and forwards are allowed to dribble.

[righthalf]

Landon Donovan, Freddy Adu, Ricardo Clark and Justin Mapp come to mind right away but I know there are more. I want to leave that open to all of you. I would not classify Eddie Johnson or DaMarcus Beasley as sound possession players at this time. Dempsey is improving his possession game, and is getting there quickly.

I would add Micheal Bradley to the list. He seems to fit your criterias of a possesion player.

[Hustletown]

I'm not conceding this as a true statement. Who exactly has Mexico beat in a WC recently? Sure they did well in the Confederations but it's just not the same.

As a US supporter, I hate Mexico as much as the next person but believe they are much better than we are at playing the possession game. I think that is what allows them to play teams like Brazil, Argentina and Holland without looking completely outclassed. It is Mexico's style. Usually all 11 players on the pitch can play with the ball at their feet comfortably. From a technical point of view, they are deeper and more advanced than we are and that also allows them to hold their own consistently against top soccer nations.

I didn't think that was an Earth shattering statement I made above.

As far as US players are concerned...

I like the way Kenny Cooper handles the ball for a big man. Also, from the little I've seen of Nate Jaqua he looks pretty good for his size on the ball. Chris Rolfe isn't bad either.

[cuselover23]

BTW, speaking of possession without penetration, Arena seemed to borrow a little from Fergie at ManU, a type that prefers quick one-touch movement of the ball where mostly and only wings and forwards are allowed to dribble.

there's a difference though, and that difference is skill. Man Utd have been able to play that way because they are good enough to play a style like that and still be succesful against better talent. The US is able to play that style well against CONCACAF nations with less defensive talent but when we go up against the Czech Republic's of the world we have trouble playing that style.

[swedust]

I define a possession oriented player as one who can at least do these things:

1. Comfortable on the ball and/or advanced dribbling skills
2. Can hold the ball in traffic
3. Can make the accurate pass in traffic.

Hustletown,

I appreciate your clearly-stated idea for a thread. And I also tend to agree with you that "possession play" is an area USSF needs to focus on in its player development efforts.

However, I'm not really sure that I agree with this definition, nor with your examples of players who possess the right skills.

I don't think advanced dribbling skills has anything to do with possession. It's valuable -- absolutely -- but not in this regard, no more than, say, long-range shooting.

And the rest of the qualities you list are to me subsets of the quality that matters most: field vision. When you can read the defense, you can see where the opportunities are, and that makes it easy to know what to do with the ball, and when.

But here is the other part of the equation, one that will no doubt irk all of Claudio Reyna's detractors: one possession-minded player does no good. That is to say, if the possession-minded player passes the ball to another player who is instead focused on "go to goal at all costs," for instance, the team will not benefit. If the possession-minded player is waiting for a teammate to move into the space the defense is making available, but instead they're standing still or making flat runs, the offense stalls.

What I think is a genuine opportunity for USMNT is to stop trying to develop specialized position players (other than the two, GK and CB, that we can actually produce really, really good ones of) like #10, destroyer, target forward, winger, etc., and instead look to develop players who have the vision and team tactics to be able to press the advantage in whatever way best suits that particular opponent and game condition. But that's just me.

[Hustletown]

I can agree with that swedust.

As far as advance dribbling goes, I included that mainly to emphasize players who are comfortable with the ball on their foot and don't treat it like a hot potato so to speak.

Just out of curiosity, who are the US players mostly likely eligible for the next cycle you would consider the most talented in possession based on your personal definition? Also, where do you disagree with some of the examples I've cited?

[Soccer_Lancer]

I can agree with that swedust.

As far as advance dribbling goes, I included that mainly to emphasize players who are comfortable with the ball on their foot and don't treat it like a hot potato so to speak.

Just out of curiosity, who are the US players mostly likely eligible for the next cycle you would consider the most talented in possession based on your personal definition? Also, where do you disagree with some of the examples I've cited?

I actually think of it as more of a player that can get out of a jam very quickly, not necessarily someone that can beat other players on the dribble. In that light, I'd easily put Clark, Adu and Mapp in that group. Not so much Donovan. He's more of te beat-on-the-dribble type. Dempsey rides the line of both but seems to be better at beating players on the dribble.

[IndividualEleven]

The offense can also stall if the 'possession player' doesn't move the ball quickly enough.

There were reports during the fallow years of the French team of a rift between players like Henry on one hand and Zidane on the other because the former preferred the ball to played forward more quickly.

In other words style and chemistry are just as important.

[deron]

The offense can also stall if the 'possession player' doesn't move the ball quickly enough.

Another aspect... the possession game will stall if there's no movement. Too often we criticize players for making "the safe pass." Anytime this criticism is made the poster should be prepared to point out the opportunities that were passed up. Often times it's an empty criticism, because there is no opportunity players are standing around marked or running away from the ball.

[Hedbal]

Add Noonan to the list.

[Soccer_Lancer]

Another aspect... the possession game will stall if there's no movement. Too often we criticize players for making "the safe pass." Anytime this criticism is made the poster should be prepared to point out the opportunities that were passed up. Often times it's an empty criticism, because there is no opportunity players are standing around marked or running away from the ball.

I think this is the biggest problem in the American game. I had the opportunity to watch the Brazil/Japan game again from the WC and the one thing I noticed more than anything else is Brazil's movement off the ball. It made the subsequent passes easy to make. This is the skill we need to teach the most in all of our young players. The pass, safe or not, was always a good one. It kept the ball moving and with players moving forward, they naturally became positive, attacking passes. I must say, however, the Brazilian ability to get out of trouble is amazing.

[JohnR]

the one thing I noticed more than anything else is Brazil's movement off the ball.

My U14's new coach is Brazilian.

Contrary to the simple stereotype, he wants less dribbling and longer passes. Currently, the team plays in the style of many of the better, more skilled U.S. squads of this age: dribble, dribble ... short pass ... a few more touches ... short pass ... dribble ... short pass. Etc.

This coach is looking for a much faster sequence of passing, including more long passes of 30 yards+ (either reversing field or finding a runner on the quick counter), and he's working very hard with the kids on improving their off-the-ball movement, so that this speed of play is possible.

Yeah, he likes Joga Bonito and the team has juggling contests ... but that stuff is only a certain part of his game, it's what you do when caught in a tight space, or perhaps when near the opponent's goal in a 1v1 situation. But not the bread and butter of the offensive play.

[swedust]

JohnR, that's an interesting anecdote. Such tactics (long passes/switching fields) put a high premium on first touch; maybe that's where the juggling fits in...?

I can agree with that swedust.

Diplomacy on BigSoccer? What's cyberspace coming to??

As far as advance dribbling goes, I included that mainly to emphasize players who are comfortable with the ball on their foot and don't treat it like a hot potato so to speak.

Ah. Thanks for the clarification. I drew the wrong conclusion.

Just out of curiosity, who are the US players mostly likely eligible for the next cycle you would consider the most talented in possession based on your personal definition? Also, where do you disagree with some of the examples I've cited?

Since I'm hanging my hat on vision (which to me would also encompass off the ball movement, as another poster put forward), I guess I would be pretty goofy to suggest that LD and Freddy didn't belong. But I don't see that from Mapp, who I think you listed, and made me think you listed Adu for the wrong reasons: I value his field vision and passing, not his 1v1 so much.

I saw passing from Spector in some of his appearances that suggested an advanced field awareness. I know he is easily dismissed but I like Brian Carroll in this regard as well. I always thought Berhalter had good vision, but he's not in the 2010 pool. I think Maestro is a better 2-way player than he was allowed to show much for USMNT, but he may also be out for 2010 based on age. I'm bullish on Troy Perkins and Matt Reis, but granted I don't see very much of the Euro keepers week in/week out. Also have high regard for Parkhurst. I think Ching is underrated for how well he connects with midfielders (mis-applied in Bruce's system, IMHO). I haven't seen Reading play but the game summaries suggest Convey links very well: I get FSC so hopefully I'll have a better sense now that he's in the EPL. Dempsey I think has promise (duh), but has been fading a bit with the Revs of late. Sasha Kleijtan at Chivas USA really impresses me, but I don't know if he's eligible. Another easy target for criticism is Olsen, but he fits in despite his limitations. And I do like Clark quite a bit, in fact, but again misunderstood why you were recommending him.

[sidefootsitter]

I had the opportunity to watch the Brazil/Japan game again from the WC and the one thing I noticed more than anything else is Brazil's movement off the ball. It made the subsequent passes easy to make. This is the skill we need to teach the most in all of our young players. The pass, safe or not, was always a good one. It kept the ball moving and with players moving forward, they naturally became positive, attacking passes. This is called "triangulation" and is rarely practiced by the US teams at full speed but it is the basis for all team play in Brazil, Argentina (but not Mexico) and pretty much everywhere in Europe.

I must say, however, the Brazilian ability to get out of trouble is amazing. They were winning all the individual battles vs. the Japanese, which was more indicative of the less-physical Far Asian style of soccer.

When matched against Ghana and France, Brazil had major problems (though it would have had fewer of them with Cicinho in for Cafu and Robinho for Juninho Pernambucano) holding the ball in the offensive zone.

[ETucker]

What would really help the most with possession is improved movement off the ball. The US players in this World Cup looked like statutes: nobody came back for passes, there were no diagnol runs, no give and gos. Without options even the best passer will have to backpass if a defender is closing down quick.

Until we play a more fluid style with more overlapping runs and triangles it doesn't matter who we put on the pitch.

Vision is recognizing open teammates, as the old adage says: "It takes two to pass"

[ClarkC]

My U14's new coach is Brazilian.

Contrary to the simple stereotype, he wants less dribbling and longer passes. Currently, the team plays in the style of many of the better, more skilled U.S. squads of this age: dribble, dribble ... short pass ... a few more touches ... short pass ... dribble ... short pass. Etc.

This coach is looking for a much faster sequence of passing, including more long passes of 30 yards+ (either reversing field or finding a runner on the quick counter), and he's working very hard with the kids on improving their off-the-ball movement, so that this speed of play is possible.

Yeah, he likes Joga Bonito and the team has juggling contests ... but that stuff is only a certain part of his game, it's what you do when caught in a tight space, or perhaps when near the opponent's goal in a 1v1 situation. But not the bread and butter of the offensive play.

It takes a lot of touch and skill to hit a long pass accurately. Anyone can spray a long ball down field and lose possession. As a result, most of us tend to think of "long ball soccer" as some unskilled, backwards way to play the game.

When you get your first taste of Dutch coaching instruction, one of the surprises is the emphasis on long balls. ACCURATE long balls, of course. The long pass is needed to loosen up a high pressure opponent, just as it is needed in American football. Otherwise, the opponent always knows what you are going to do with the ball. Everyone can see your best short option.