PDA

View Full Version : Right Back in the Next Cycle


Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5

Maximum Optimal
07 Aug 2006, 01:30 PM
The All-Star Game has generated some interesting discussion on topics such as how Mulrooney got lost in the defensive mid shuffle in the last cycle and how Albright deserves a closer look as a starter for the next cycle. These threads made me think about how players should be integrated into the national team squad and I thought right back would be an interesting position to discuss some of these issues.

Before getting to specific names, I want to start with some general principles that I think should guide the process:

1) Ideally, the coach should try to identify three or four candidates who he would be happy to have on the WC squad by 2010. Among those he would chose two. Having three or four allows some cushion for things like injuries and loss of form.
2) It is a waste of time to look at players who will be over 32 by the 2010 WC. You can bring in a player like that in an emergency situation in the qualifiers but otherwise do not do so.
3) It is much easier to judge whether a young player in a top league abroad is ready for international competition than it is to make such an evaluation for a similar player in MLS. This means you have to discriminate in favor of the guys in MLS in terms of national team PT because such PT yields more information about how those guys fit in.
4) In deciding how to allocate PT you need to look at the pipeline and decide if a veteran who might be a good candidate now is likely to be eclipsed by someone coming up. If that is the case you need to be careful not to waste PT on the veteran.

Underlying several of these principles is the assumption that EVERYTHING should be geared to forming the best squad for WC2010. As a corollary, I am willing to assume that qualifying is safe enough to be willing to use it mainly with that goal in mind.

Anyhow lets move on now to the specifics of right back. We start the cycle, with an incumbent (Cherundolo) and main backup (Albright) who will both be 31 in 2010. Neither player is perfect and 31 might be getting a little old for a position that requires a lot of running, but I think that barring injuries but should be serviceable in 2010. I occasionally see someone make an argument that Hejduk's exceptional fitness might allow him to make the 2010 squad. My reaction is fuggedaboutit. See Principle #2 about. Any PT Frankie gets will be a monumental waste.

It will be a waste in part because of what is in the pipeline. I think there are two young players, who at the moment are not as good as Cherundolo and Albright, but might be better by 2010--Marvell Wynne (who will be 24 in 2010) and Quavas Kirk (who will be 22). As I said neither are ready at the moment. Both have shortcomings that may not ever be fully overcome. But both have the potential to be better than Cherundolo and Albright by 2010. Those two are the ones that need to be nurtured in this cycle. Wynne is a bit older and further ahead. I would bring him in at the 2007 January camp and start giving him some gaves then. Kirk I would let play with the U20s. Then bring him in in the 2008 or 2009 winter camp depending on how quickly he develops. At a minimum I want to give him three starts in as high pressure matches as we can find by the end of 2009.

How do the principles outlined above apply to some other possibilities? Brian Mullan has his fans on these boards but see Principle #4 above. Mullan will be 32 by 2010. I have to conclude it would be a waste to give him PT. What about someone younger like Tim Ward (yes he has played mainly on the left side but is right footed) or Drew Moor or Josh Gros. Guys like that we have to be open minded about. They don't have the upside of Wynne or Kirk but ultimately the game is about performance. So if they outperform Wynne and Kirk we give them a shot. But we should start out with a strong presumption in favor of the high upside guys.

What about Spector? See Principle #3 above. I think there is less need to give him PT unless we decide by the qualifiers that he is better than Cherundolo and Albright. We will pretty much know this from his performance in the EPL.

beastmode18
07 Aug 2006, 03:05 PM
This is a non-issue...its Cherundolo in a 4 back. Spector in a 3.

sidefootsitter
07 Aug 2006, 03:13 PM
If there's one thing Cherundolo can do is run.

He should be more than OK at 31.

bltleo
07 Aug 2006, 03:18 PM
I occasionally see someone make an argument that Hejduk's exceptional fitness might allow him to make the 2010 squad. My reaction is fuggedaboutit. See Principle #2 about. Any PT Frankie gets will be a monumental waste.

.

I would be very happy if ex-Leverkusen player Frankie Hejduk get his chance because he was injured this world cup and could not play, he would enjoy second chance.I hope this exceptional fitness works, however he will be old man by 2010:). Of course chance that Frankie is in squad 2010 are really not so big. It must happen wunder that it happen and I wish him this wonder.

There is only one Frankie Hejduk:)

Ghost
07 Aug 2006, 03:18 PM
Cherundolo, Albright, Wynne. Then a vast "?". I do wonder about Simek, though. I'm sure some people will say Spector, but I would expect him to compete of the left where we may be thinner, actually.

Ghost
07 Aug 2006, 03:19 PM
There is only one Frankie Hejduk:)

And he'll be 35 y.o. in 2010.

ugaaccountant
07 Aug 2006, 03:20 PM
Your principles of selection are good, but I think your baseline assumption of what constitutes talent at right back is debatable and interesting. How do you know where a young player truly will play for the next 4 years?

A NT coach should not look at an 18y/o M/F and say he's fast and tall, i'll make him a RB. A coach should look at the results that our young players are getting at that position and project from there. I just don't see LA moving Kirk to RB when they already have Albright on their team and unless i'm missing something have never used Kirk there. Same as Wynne when he was being played as a CD under Mo he couldn't be easily assumed as a rb. Now that abmod/arena are using a 4-4-2 he can be. Brian Mullan was often projected on here to be a nice future RB as was Chris Klein and Steve Ralston but it never happened at the club level so it didn't work.

Some guys are really tough though. Sturgis apparently can be projected to any spot in D or DM you want for now, but hopefully it will become more clear soon. Same with Spector.

Spector, Tim Ward, Hunter Freeman, Justin Mapp, Freddy Adu, or whatever 2 footed guy should also be looked at for the position they play club ball and only looked at on the other side if they clearly have the experience at both. Beasley and Convey played alot on both sides of the ball in their career and Beasley still had alot to say about "natrual" sides.

We have a chance to build from strength, let's not force things from the start.

Adam Zebrowski
07 Aug 2006, 03:45 PM
wynne has the good fortune to have arena nurturing him for red bulls....

the big key is what sort of development happens in a 4 year period...

his athletic gifts promise a huge upside...

it's a question of the maturation of his game....

wynne does the olympics, and is in the mix for camp call-ups for 2009....

spector needs to play, and the next coach needs to find the right role for him...

there will be a growing number of guys who can do certain things well...

selecting from that group will be the next coaches MAJOR task....

there will be some guys left off the 2010 roster, assuming disaster does NOT bite

Maximum Optimal
07 Aug 2006, 04:22 PM
Your principles of selection are good, but I think your baseline assumption of what constitutes talent at right back is debatable and interesting. How do you know where a young player truly will play for the next 4 years?

A NT coach should not look at an 18y/o M/F and say he's fast and tall, i'll make him a RB.

A fair point. But this is why I'm not advocating Kirk be given a look for another two or three years.

CbR
07 Aug 2006, 05:21 PM
And he'll be 35 y.o. in 2010.

cafu was 36...your point?:p

Dolo is our starting RB no question......wynne will challege for it in 3 years time but not yet. He's making great progress in his play and is one of the reason's for the red bulls turn around as of late.

bing1985
07 Aug 2006, 05:36 PM
cafu was 36...your point?:p

Dolo is our starting RB no question......wynne will challege for it in 3 years time but not yet. He's making great progress in his play and is one of the reason's for the red bulls turn around as of late.
I believe the point is:

Hejduk = 35
Cafu = 36
therefore, Cafu > Hejduk
:D

Look folks - 4 yrs is a long time. Even between now and the next Gold Cup we're going to see players emerge and steal an opportunity. I agree that the depth chart starts with DOLO and then there's a ? mark. But that signifies a lack of CLARITY rather than a lack of good options. By 2 years from now, we could easily see players like Wynne, Kirk, Josh Gros emerging to push for the the #1 job. Hell, I had never even heard of Dasan Robinson before this year but I'm having lotsa fun watching the kid in Chicago play RB. At this point you can't even rule out guys who look to not have a chance (like Kelly Gray, Jack Stewart, Mullan)

Not to mention that we might wind up with a coach that decides he's so deep in quality central defenders that he wants to use one out on the right...

Much to early to tell.

treefire
07 Aug 2006, 05:53 PM
Most of your reasoning about looking at players is sound.

I do believe it's a little extreme to say the coach is "wasting" playing time on experienced players, or players that play in Europe.

Team building is about more than looking at an individual player's performance. The way players get along with others, both on and off the field, must be taken into consideration. Players need to be viewed in different combinations. They also need to have a feeling that they belong.

It certainly makes sense to include veterans and "known quantities" in the effort to guage how a select group of newcomers will perform in the established system. Having experienced players around also gives new players someone to discuss things with in the locker room. This is one reason I wouldn't be surprised to see Hejduk get some more caps - he has a lot of experience, and a reputation as a great guy to have in the locker room.

I get as excited as the next guy about "what might happen," I too dream that we have undiscovered gems/combinations of players that will take the team to another level, if only given the chance. However, I'm fully prepared to accept seeing several established names, including people who one would expect will be too old for the next world cup, in the upcoming nats games. There's a lot to the process of building a new team, and you've hit on part of it. I hope the new coaches will temper their selections with similar ideas, and open minds.

Craig P
07 Aug 2006, 05:55 PM
As a corollary, I am willing to assume that qualifying is safe enough to be willing to use it mainly with that goal in mind.
I suppose that's fair enough to do for the sake of argument, but in practice I don't believe that assumption holds, rendering much of the debate academic.

mtr8967
07 Aug 2006, 05:57 PM
Am I the only one worried we have no RB pospect who'll be in his prime in 2010?

Maximum Optimal
07 Aug 2006, 06:03 PM
Am I the only one worried we have no RB pospect who'll be in his prime in 2010?

From today's vantage point our top four include 2 guys who will be 31 (Cherundolo and Albright) and 2 who will be 24 (Wynne and Spector), although Spector might be better used elsewhere. That's actually a pretty good situation. If you want to be worried try to do the same excercise for forward.

dice50
07 Aug 2006, 06:18 PM
I think that 34 to 35 has become the last years the average player can still play in a world cup. I think at 31 or 32 you still have a couple of good years left. That's too young in my opinion to start counting guys out on. I think center backs,goalies,center-mids with not much defensive responsibilities, and target center forwards can also play until they are 37/38 and still be effective.

halfnelson31
07 Aug 2006, 06:21 PM
Yeah but not fullbacks or wingers that have to run the length of the pitch. Also Spector can actually handle physical players while Dolo might have a problem with his size.

________________
USA Futbol Blog (http://usofafutbol.blogspot.com/)

"CNN said that after the war, there is a plan to divide Iraq into three parts: regular, premium and unleaded."
Jay Leno

"First Tackle, First Foul, First Shot, First Goal."
Da Bruce

USvsIRELAND
07 Aug 2006, 06:25 PM
Albright is not good enough for International level. He is a hack.

Cherundolo will be fine in 2010. Maybe(hopefully) better than he was this summer. I would prefer to give Wynne the experience in qualifiers and friendlies now to accelerate his development rather than play Albright. I think Wynne is better than Albright right now and will be way better in 4 years. Albright is awful.

halfnelson31
07 Aug 2006, 06:26 PM
But does Wynne have the touch and vision requried of an intl back? I'm sorry if I sound dumb I just haven't had a chance to follow him with the Red Donkeys this season.

______________
USA Futbol Blog (http://usofafutbol.blogspot.com/)

"First Tackle, First Foul, First Shot, First Goal."
Da Bruce

"CNN said that after the war, there is a plan to divide Iraq into three parts: regular, premium and unleaded."
Jay Leno

mtr8967
07 Aug 2006, 06:27 PM
From today's vantage point our top four include 2 guys who will be 31 (Cherundolo and Albright) and 2 who will be 24 (Wynne and Spector), although Spector might be better used elsewhere. That's actually a pretty good situation. If you want to be worried try to do the same excercise for forward.

Forward is just hopeless :)

We must use different definitions of prime. To me 24 might be just barely entering it and 31 is just barely leaving it. I find it odd and disturbing that we have a seven year gap with no quality players.