Where is the World Class Forward?

[Alex_1]

This topic's been brought up to death, I know. The lack of forwards in the USA's senior team, or the lack of a consistent finisher for the USA team. But now I wanted to start up a thread that really drives into the subject and gets all of your ideas and theories behind what's really an oddity, IMO. The USA can produce some good midfielders, and some good defenders. IN fact, several players in the midfield, defense and goal have proven that they're good enough to play with or against some of the very best in the world. It's not a slight at all, but a terrific achievement.

But forwards and scoring. Through the past 12 years, the USA's had some decent forwards - Eric Wynalda, Joe-Max Moore and Brian McBride. But after those three, in my opinion, the drop is really pretty sharp.

This isn't to say that the USA is void of any dangerous forward. Landon Donovan has had his moments, but it's clear IMO that he's pass-first and shoot second, which is a terrific attribute in the right system, and is a terrific attribute as long as that mentallity doens't come at the expense of sacrificing his own clear-cut scoring opportunity (which it did more than once this summer and in some run-ups to the cup, and before hand). Eddie Johnson looked fantastic in qualifiers, and did have some good energy in the times he played the Cup, but really - does he have what it takes to score against some of the more sophisticated players and defenses in the world? Others... Twellman, Josh Wolff, Brian Ching... they honestly looked mediocre to me and I don't see that extra special talent in the pipeline other than *maybe* Freddy Adu.

I guess this issue is developmental. Maybe you don't see the explosion of forwards in the USA because some go overseas and are converted into different positoins? Or... maybe they stay in the domestic league too long, and don't gain the experience that might come if they make it as a forward in one of the better leagues and teams in the world? (I know I created a double-edged sword). ;) And I know that the pipe-line for real, World Class forwards is a rarity in and of itself... that's why players like a Ronaldo, Eto'O, Shevchenko, Klose, Henry, Owen - all command such hefty price-tags when they're bought or sold. But what do you think it takes to finally get and develop that one player where he toys with defenses, and mercilessly rips through them? Some say it's Adu, but I don't know. Open ended discussion... nobody is wrong or right, just curious on some perspectives.

[CbR]

we need some African colonies

[Elessar1733]

I think that (up to this point) you hit the nail on the head with the comment about being converted other positions. I'll leave it up to others to correct me where I'm wrong, but I believe that both Spector and Onyewu were converted forwards. Why? Well I don't know why. I just remember reading and hearing that somewhere...

Hester

[sidefootsitter]

The US needs guys like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Mariner to work with its strikers. And work. And work.

[Grandpa Goal]

Already addressed this on another thread on 31 July:

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=388669

The US needs guys like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Mariner to work with its strikers. And work. And work.

Totally agree. Do you remember Waldo singing Mariner's praises (on a recent MLS telecast) about the advice Paul gave Eric prior to his going to the Bundesliga? Whatever it was, it worked... Wynalda scored a bunch as soon as he got there.

[Shaster]

Not very difficult. Leave the real forwards out of our youth coaches!

Actually the current U-20 shows some hopes.

[Li mu bei]

But forwards and scoring. Through the past 12 years, the USA's had some decent forwards - Eric Wynalda, Joe-Max Moore and Brian McBride. But after those three, in my opinion, the drop is really pretty sharp.

JMM wasn't decent.

McBride was OK for a role.

Wynalda is the closest we had to a real threat.

Regardless, I think that young forwards are often more "skilled" than the rest of their teammates and are converted to midfield positions, particularly into central midfield; coaches tend to think that doing this "beefs" up the team, because it forces "greater" in-game involvement of the "best" players.

There is a prevalent "defense first, control the midfield, and something will happen" mentality in this country. FWIW, I'm in favor of controlling the midfield and strong D. But, when a credible attack exists, games become fluid, free-flowing, and less pressure is placed on any particular player or line.

So, I suppose that I agree: the weakest part of U.S. Soccer--across all levels--is attacking the final third of the field.

[Seanin]

Good forwards rely on instinct first, technique and discipline second. As long as we have killjoys like Peter Nowak telling prodigiously gifted attackers like Freddy Ady to think defense first, we'll never see an American who is a natural goalscorer. The forward-to-midfielder thing happened to Donovan. He was a very good forward in 2002, but then Arena started grooming him to be the next Claudio Reyna. In 2006 he didn't know what the hell to be doing.

[galperin]

I think that (up to this point) you hit the nail on the head with the comment about being converted other positions. Agreed.

[motownajax]

Why no Jeff Cunningham? Hes as pure a goal scorer, (what we lack the most) as anybody. And Chandu knows the grief it caused me that Woly Woly never got a shot, ok Im partly kidding. Best case scenerio is that Adu decides to play for us and lives up to the billing.

[Seanin]

I have a friend here in Ireland who, after seeing Cunningham in last year's MLS all-star game, couldn't believe he wasn't a USA regular. He's a Tottenham fan and compared Cunningham favorably to Jermain Defoe. Same guy was equally dumbfounded after watching Eddie Johnson against the Czechs that he wasn't starting. "He's the only guy willing to take a shot."

[swedust]

Here is my theory of one contributing factor: at the developmental level, it is my observation that the top forward prospects are groomed to go it alone. The offense is geared to "set them loose" on the defense, where their advanced physical properties (usually) and technique (sometimes) can be put to advantage.

Grooming top attackers to work with one another and the midfielders around them doesn't happen soon enough. The top players rise to the level where the defense doesn't get caught out of shape as easily, and then they have to start learning how to run off each other, how to combine in tight spaces, etc., not just sprint through the open field. By then, the learning curve is steep. Anyway, that's what I see.

[Zoidberg]

In 2006 he didn't know what the hell to be doing.

Arena. Right?;)

[Zoidberg]

I have a friend here in Ireland who, after seeing Cunningham in last year's MLS all-star game, couldn't believe he wasn't a USA regular. He's a Tottenham fan and compared Cunningham favorably to Jermain Defoe. Same guy was equally dumbfounded after watching Eddie Johnson against the Czechs that he wasn't starting. "He's the only guy willing to take a shot."

These players have their faults, but yes, they do want to go forward.

Problem?

Donut eating guy on the sidelines who fostered fear and insecurity, who disliked any player who did not conform to his will or play in his system, which was always rigid and predictable.

A new coach, with ideas, will do wonders for our talent pool, and the look of some of our players. Just watch.

[dsylvest]

These players have their faults, but yes, they do want to go forward.

Problem?

Donut eating guy on the sidelines who fostered fear and insecurity, who disliked any player who did not conform to his will or play in his system, which was always rigid and predictable.

A new coach, with ideas, will do wonders for our talent pool, and the look of some of our players. Just watch.

Bring on Klinsi...we'll get some fire in the attack!

[GONATS]

Just curious. In the months leading up to the world cup, everyone was screaming for Rolfe. Do people still feel this way? I personally never was a true believer, but it seemed like every single other person on this board was. I just never got it. Heck, he wasn't even the forward who was picked from his own team to be on what is now shaping up to be a second string all-star MLS team.

[EEUU]

I have a friend here in Ireland who, after seeing Cunningham in last year's MLS all-star game, couldn't believe he wasn't a USA regular. He's a Tottenham fan and compared Cunningham favorably to Jermain Defoe. Same guy was equally dumbfounded after watching Eddie Johnson against the Czechs that he wasn't starting. "He's the only guy willing to take a shot."

I think us Yanks are more than qualified to see the abilities or lack thereof in our players. Eddie Johnson has been off-form for how long now? He fired off some balls when it is likely Bruce told him upon insertion, "Go in there and take some shots". Eddie still hasn't rediscovered his form since he got back.

[EEUU]

This isn't to say that the USA is void of any dangerous forward. Landon Donovan has had his moments, but it's clear IMO that he's pass-first and shoot second, which is a terrific attribute in the right system, and is a terrific attribute as long as that mentallity doens't come at the expense of sacrificing his own clear-cut scoring opportunity (which it did more than once this summer and in some run-ups to the cup, and before hand). Eddie Johnson looked fantastic in qualifiers, and did have some good energy in the times he played the Cup, but really - does he have what it takes to score against some of the more sophisticated players and defenses in the world? Others... Twellman, Josh Wolff, Brian Ching... they honestly looked mediocre to me and I don't see that extra special talent in the pipeline other than *maybe* Freddy Adu.



Does Freddy play forward or midfield for D.C.? I know that Landon is much more dangerous as an attacking mid than a forward.

[Hed7181]

Does Freddy play forward or midfield for D.C.? I know that Landon is much more dangerous as an attacking mid than a forward.

I appreciate this comment, and understand the position, but Landon Donovan didn't become the second leading goal scorer in USMNT history by the age of 24 by scoring from midfield all the time. Honestly, I used to agree here, but the more I think about it, the more I don't understand. During WC02, Donovan played up top and was spectacular. Up until a year or so ago (maybe because of his 'new role') he was the most prolific goal scorer ever.

I think Landon Donovan is exhibit A to this very argument. He's the most talented player we've had in USA maybe ever, so what do we do? We move him back to AM because THERE he can be more involved in the game. That's BS. It's a good thing Ivory Coast didn't do the same to Drogba, or Ukraine to Shevchenko, or any other team with a star forward and supporting cast. No, I'm not trying to say that LD is as good or even the same kind of player as these guys. But what the hell is wrong with having an outstanding forward be the most skilled player on the team?

[JohnR]

we need some African colonies

You know, I hear this quite often, and it's quite strange in that the prime weakness of the African teams at the past World Cup was finishing. Ivory Coast and Ghana played terrific soccer at times but eventually suffered due to defensive breakdowns and rotten finishing. Angola & Togo did not play as well but their finishing was equally poor.

Maybe the African countries need some European colonies?