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View Full Version : Pique & Rossi - Loan or Keep here?


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Dark Savante
03 Aug 2006, 10:24 AM
Reports are coming in that Gerard Pique will be sent on loan to Real Zaragoza in the Primera Liga next season where he is guaranteed to play 20games (contractually) for them.

Now, a move to Spain for Pique is bad, imo. He is, imo the most technically complete defender we have at the club after Rio. Almost stereotypically, his passing, dribbling and so on is what you would expect of a Spaniard who is comfortable playing DM or CM, yet, is a centre back by trade.

I don't like the idea of him going to another league and unlearning all the things we've taught him, especially with regard to the aggression and physical presence he will need to get on in the EPL. Why have we not loaned him out to a PL team? There would be no shortage of takers and the kid's development would progress in a way that is beneficial to us. Even if he is exceptional in Spain there is no inkling to how he is likely to do in England. Spanish strikers are as far removed from English ones as possible in Europe, imo. It's such a clean league e.g the number of Harewood's, Saha's, Drogba's Ashcroft's, Dickov's etc, etc are minimal. I don't mean to say what we have here are dirty players (sans Dickov) what I'm saying is that strikers here tend to be fast, powerful and very aggressive; head-on, shoulder to shoulder aggressive. Pique will get none of that in Spain even though he will be up against some of the best strikers in the world. How does that benefit us?

Bringing him back here after a period might cause a culture shock as well, when Ronaldo has been away from us for any period of time he comes back having unlearnt all the things that make him beneficial to us, is this going to happen with Pique as well? It says a lot for the kid that a decent side in the top league in Spain is willing to contractually oblige themselves to starting him in 20games, but I wonder if our plan is to sell him if he is outstanding over there.... perhaps I'm reading to much from a wierd move... *shrugs

As for Rossi, is it better for him to go on loan and probably start every game at the right PL club or stay here and get half chances whilst learning from some of the best in the league? I'm in two minds about this. A half season or a season on loan for this kid could really convince the manager to treat him as a genuine threat to the 1st xi. I don't know what standing SAF regards Rossi in at this moment in time, perhaps he has the rotation with Rooney and Saha theory set, or, for worse, Rossi would be the 4th or 5th choice after Rooney, Saha and Smith..

If we could send him to a side that actually plays football, on the ground, who are in the PL, a loan may be what helps Manchester United the most in the long term i.e looking to January 2007 or even the league campaign 07/08. This again goes back to how highly SAF holds Rossi (genuinely/privately, not the splurge he says to the press) in regard to this term. I still believe we will go for a new striker, but that could mean a Rooney, Saha, ??? and Rossi rotation.

There is absolutely no guarantee Smith comes back the same player he left as and if truth be told I'd much rather see him used as a RM then a striker. I put no stock in Ole's position. There's no way to tell if he can cope with the demands of the league or how the two years out will have affected him...or whether he breaks down again. It's good to see him back, but he truly is a wild card. He may come back as good as ever, but it'd be foolish to expect or demand it. We can't turn to Ole and demand anything from him, imo. I'd have more expectation on Rossi to deliver than Ole this season, for example.

Would you keep Rossi here, or would you loan him out? And what about Pique, is a loan to a Spanish side good for him?

Vermont Red
03 Aug 2006, 10:32 AM
With regards to Pique, for me the question is whether or not there is anything he can learn in Spain. The playing time is important, but he could get that in England. To me, this smells like Pique has a preference to be on loan in Spain.

With regards to Rossi, I think that he would benefit from regular playing time at the Prem level. If he stays, to me that implies that he will be given his chance. We do not have a shortage of candidates for 4th striker (Solskjaer, Smith, Giggs, Scholes) so I don't think Fergie would keep him around for that. I think (hope) that if Rossi stays then its because Fergie thinks he's ready to be third striker. If he wants him for fourth striker, then loan him.

appoo
03 Aug 2006, 10:32 AM
I think Rossi is going ot get a shot at winning the #3 spot. So unless Sir Alex buys another striker, keep him, other wise loan him, and Rossi won't sign an extension next summer either

samabachan
03 Aug 2006, 10:32 AM
The Pique loan kinda depends how his mind works. If he's an instinctive player (like Rooney) he would probably adapt his game to Spain and then when he came back to England take some time to readapt to Prem football. If he learns stuff like it's a subject at school (like maybe Bergkamp) then he will probably not unlearn anyhting. In other words I have no idea what I'm talking about.

samabachan
03 Aug 2006, 10:33 AM
I'd like Rossi to go on loan for a bit personally.

United Forever
03 Aug 2006, 10:37 AM
Well Pique is on his way now DS to Zaragoza...

http://home.skysports.com/list.asp?hlid=407493&CPID=8&clid=1&lid=&title=Pique+deal+all+but+done

What I understand about this is confidence level me thinks. Fergie wants this boy to be happy and going back home for a yr so to speak is going to make him delighted. On playing front I too would have preferred him to stay in England but I guess this was the only team allowing him to START 20 games. Will be interesting.

On the Rossi front I DO NOT want him him going on loan. I must be the only guy that would like to see a Rooney/Rossi frontline as I believe Saha is liable and crap but that might be just me.

johno
03 Aug 2006, 10:48 AM
I think we've got to be realistic.

Pique will not get 20 starts or anything close to it for a Premiership club. Look at Spector. He was highly touted by Ferguson and had made 3 or 4 top not performances with United before going on loan and he was trying to play either fullback position. CB is a much more important position and no unproven reserve team player is going to go to any team with shot at earning a start in more than 2 or 3 games when there are injuries.

I think playing for the first team even in Spain will do Pique alot of good. For starters, he'll be playing against better opposition more consistently than he would have here. He'll learn positioning even though he won't be up against brutes, he can still improve vastly. After showing that he can hold down a spot in La Liga he'll be alot more likely to get a loan for a Prem team for 6 months or so and then he should be ready to step into a spot at United.

As for Rossi, I'm undecided. I think we can use him, but if Fergie isn't willing to give him some matches and some sub appearances then its pointless keeping him here even if its for emergency purposes. Send him on loan with a provision to recall him if we so decide. I don't want him stagnating.

Vermont Red
03 Aug 2006, 10:49 AM
Pique>Spector

DutchFootballRulez
03 Aug 2006, 10:59 AM
Pique>Spector

Yeah if you say so...

Mullet Power..Spector>>>>>>>>>>Pique.

Pique should go to Zaragoza, but the downside is its not Prem strikers, big physical sitter missing foul machines that chase and hunt. It's Torres, Eto'o, Forlan, Aimar(in training) he'd face.

In the Prem he'd get bullied, in La Liga he'd get humbled. You'd say to Pique, "More weights son" after a bad Prem run. You'd say after a bad La Liga run "Uh...football is funny, and cruel game, son"

Dark Savante
03 Aug 2006, 11:03 AM
Well Pique is on his way now DS to Zaragoza...

http://home.skysports.com/list.asp?hlid=407493&CPID=8&clid=1&lid=&title=Pique+deal+all+but+done

What I understand about this is confidence level me thinks. Fergie wants this boy to be happy and going back home for a yr so to speak is going to make him delighted. On playing front I too would have preferred him to stay in England but I guess this was the only team allowing him to START 20 games. Will be interesting.

On the Rossi front I DO NOT want him him going on loan. I must be the only guy that would like to see a Rooney/Rossi frontline as I believe Saha is liable and crap but that might be just me.
The bad thing about this is I think we're keeping Silvestre... :(

The good thing is Pique is being given the #5 shirt. They have a lot of faith in him.

appoo
03 Aug 2006, 11:10 AM
Pique>Spector


I haven't watched enough of Pique to draw any conclusions, but all of the corrobotive evidence points to Spector.

Both are the same age, both signed on with United at the same time. Spector won the Jimmy Ryan Award for best Academy/Reserve player. Spector broke into the 1st team before Pique, Spector got loaned to a top flight club before Pique, and Spector was also offered an extension from Utd, and had a handful of offers from other clubs before accepting one from West Ham.

again, not disagreeing with you at all because I have no basic to make an actual conclusion having never seen Pique play, so I guess I'm askign what you're basing this upon? I'd like to believe as I think United need a young, up and coming defender.

benni...
03 Aug 2006, 11:12 AM
Rossi should stay, and Pique should go on loan. We are not sure if there were any English teams in for him. To me, not a lot of English clubs have centerbacks that are his style.

For example, even though Rio is a world class defender, he often gets slated by just about everyone for his style of play. As good as Pique may be, I think that English teams would rather have a Ben Grimm "Its clobbering time" centerback, then a more well rounded, Rio-esque centerback. Even if he is clearly talented.

So Im guessing spain was the only option. I think its better than him playing in the reserves. I dont think he would have gotten much action this season in any case, with the first team at centerback.

benni...
03 Aug 2006, 11:14 AM
Pique>Spector

I kind of disagree with that. I mean, if this was true, why havnt a Charlton or West Ham been in for Pique?

Charleysurf
03 Aug 2006, 11:14 AM
It'd be better for United if Pique got some experience in the PL, but as someone else has said, there is no way a PL club would guarantee him 20 games.
If he goes to Zaragoza then La Liga is going to hold a lot of interest for me this year, between watching Pique develop and seeing the mountain of goals Ruud will score.

I don't see Rossi getting much playing time at United this year, unless we get a lot of injuries. I'd prefer if he went to another PL club and made a big impact. Unless we get another striker I guess we'll have to keep him around though. I would worry that he will get disillusioned with United and ask to leave eventually.

Vermont Red
03 Aug 2006, 11:21 AM
again, not disagreeing with you at all because I have no basic to make an actual conclusion having never seen Pique play, so I guess I'm askign what you're basing this upon?

Spector is no longer a United player. If there was a chance that he'd become world class, he'd still be here. Also, it's not like the fee was so huge.

Vermont Red
03 Aug 2006, 11:22 AM
I kind of disagree with that. I mean, if this was true, why havnt a Charlton or West Ham been in for Pique?

How do you know they haven't? Neither do I. I think that Pique wanted to go to Spain.

benni...
03 Aug 2006, 11:26 AM
How do you know they haven't? Neither do I. I think that Pique wanted to go to Spain.

Yeah, I was making a huge assumption. I based that on the notion that Fergie knows whats best for Pique, and Fergie would have definately advised him.

I definately dont think that the loan is a bad idea. He will go up against Ruud, Ronaldo, Villa, Torres, Morientes, Eto'o etc. Thats a lot of experience right there. He is still 19, he could still go on loan to another club next season.

MtP07
03 Aug 2006, 12:30 PM
Rossi needs to be our number 3/4 striker this season. He needs to be starting early rounds of the League and FA Cup competition. In the Prem, he needs to be getting at least 10-20min if possible.

I'd prefer Pique go out on loan to a Prem side.

JinJin
03 Aug 2006, 01:00 PM
It's highly unlikely that Pique will break the Milito and Alvaro partnership, Milito is a great defender as well and Pique could learn a lot from him.

johno
03 Aug 2006, 01:15 PM
It's highly unlikely that Pique will break the Milito and Alvaro partnership, Milito is a great defender as well and Pique could learn a lot from him.

They're contractually obligated to give him 20 starts this season so he will break that partnership or play alot in another position.