quick poll: passing back

[usatowin]

Just curious and didn't want to hijack the other thread.

How many times have you called it? What level? Was it out of ignorance, no time to kick away, or a tactical ploy? Any trickery cautions?

I can only think of 2 times since the law change, in mid level youth play. Both defenders under pressure right after winning the ball making a quick pass back. Keepers had time to kick, but the speed of play might have fooled them or left them no time to think.

[IASocFan]

...
I can only think of 2 times since the law change, in mid level youth play. Both defenders under pressure right after winning the ball making a quick pass back. Keepers had time to kick, but the speed of play might have fooled them or left them no time to think.

That's pretty much my experience. I called it more when the laws were first changed than I have since. The keepers are usually pretty careful. I still get queries from attacking teams on whether certain deflections and mis-kicks are passbacks. They haven't been. My most spectacular "passback" was a girls JV game. A defender just beyond the outside corner of the penalty area cleared a chest-high ball towards her own far upper 90! :eek: The keeper made a running jumping outstanding save. When asked, I told the attacking team it didn't look like an intentional pass to me!

[Ref Flunkie]

I think I've called it twice (long time ago). One was an "oops" pickup by the GK, the other was a defender taking a shot, settling it with her foot, and leaving it for the GK to pick up. Both were in the U-12/13 age range.

[gosellit]

Only a couple of times.

One time was a U14 girls state cup match quite a few years ago. When I made the call, my arm went straight up. The ball was correctly placed just outside the goal area and player shot the the ball "directly" in the goal. Obviously no goal. That team ended up losing by 1 goal.

After the game the coach told he that the keeper should have been red carded for a 'hand ball" in the box. I almost laughed.

[Lazzer]

I've seen it called several times in lower level youth games (U11-12), which was the instance I was refering to in my other thread.

I've never actually seen an instance of "trickery."

[Statesman]

Twice, both in amateur games. Both cases the defender comes under pressure and plays the ball back, but the keeper is not paying attention (?) and scoops the ball up. Sh** happens :)

[Wreave]

The last time I called it was a couple weeks ago in a tournament, in a GU14 game. The defender kicked the ball back towards the keeper. It was a high looper, and the keeper had plenty of time to hear at least two (I think three) of her teammates shouting at her, "Don't pick it up!"

I've also called the dribble and leave noted above, and was AR on one at this same tournament where the defender played a controlled ball to the corner of the PA and the keeper ran to it and picked it up. No attackers were running on, and it was clearly played to an area where the keeper could get it. The CR made the call, not me, but I agreed.

Here's a question, though. I am working on talking more with the players, after having gotten a chance to work with a couple of refs (one in particular) that is very conversant and really makes the game go well. For example, if a ball is going out, especially over the goal line, he'll say, "Off blue if it goes," so both players know who gets the kick. That makes a lot of sense to me - the frustration by a player who is shielding the ball to find out his team had last touch can be a flashpoint.

Anyway, I'm wondering if any of you ever speak about this to a keeper, to let them know that the ball can't be touched with the hands? It would have to be short and sweet, "Keeper, no hands!" Or something along those lines. Sometimes it happens too fast (the case of the dribble/trap/leave is one), but usually, if the kick is such that it would have to be called if the keeper touched it, you'd have time.

On the one hand, I like the idea of avoid "gotcha refereeing", where you know a player's going to be penalized and you'd just standing there with the whistle in your mouth. OTOH, I don't like the idea of setting a precedent that you'll always tell a keeper when she may play the ball with the hands. If you warn her off of one earlier in the game, and later there is no time, or you're not close enough, or something, and she picks it up thinking that if you didn't say anything, it must be OK, you could have set yourself up for some trouble.

Thoughts?

[Wreave]

(snipped keeper passback story) After the game the coach told me that the keeper should have been red carded for a 'hand ball" in the box. I almost laughed.

This goes in the the "stupid comments" thread. :D

[njref]

I call this 1-2 times a season, maybe half the time it is because a player shielding for the goalkeeper will get anxious under pressure and tap it over, a one foot pass but still a pass-back.

I am reluctant to tell GK not to handle the ball. "keeper no hands" sounds a lot like coaching. And when you don't call it for the other team (for lack of time or whatever reason), it looks like favoritism.

[DerbyRam54]

Even at the recreational youth level this doesn't seem to happen very often. The only incident that comes to mind though was pretty special for stupidity all around. A boys JV game. Keeper takes a short goal kick for some reason, playing it to a defender who had two attackers marking him. The defender had no option but to play it back to the keeper. Somewhat predictably the keeper picked it up. I blew the whistle and signalled for an indirect kick. The keeper very obediently put the ball down at his feet and retreated along with the defender who'd played him the pass. The only other defender comes steaming in screaming that it was "never a pass back", I studiously ignored him to watch the attackers take the kick quite quickly, a bit too quickly as they shanked it wide.

I've never seen any kind of trick play to circumvent the law, I don't think the players I see are creative enough to do that, though a couple of local coaches are ignorant enough of the laws to try it if they thought they had players who could execute it reliably enough.

[Ref Flunkie]

I am reluctant to tell GK not to handle the ball. "keeper no hands" sounds a lot like coaching. And when you don't call it for the other team (for lack of time or whatever reason), it looks like favoritism.


I agree. Nor can I see myself doing it for out of bounds plays either for the very reason that I can see the one time I DON'T do it, it somehow impacts the game and makes me look like I am playing favorites. I can easily keep my mouth shut 100% of the time....I can't guarantee that I will say "Don't pick it up keeper" or "Off blue" every time.

[usatowin]

Re: telling GK what he can do

D1 amateur, D1/premier/state cup+ youth: Never

Lower levels-if it's questionable; I treat it not as a matter of coaching them on the laws, but as removing the what does the ref think factor; the lower the level, the more I give them; afterall, these are the just for fun or developmental leagues

Re: "Out off..."

Absolutely never, although they might pick up on my deflection signal to my AR.

[IASocFan]

Since the trickery considerations were put in at the same time the passback law was implemented, I would expect there to be very few occurences. Everytime I've heard an instructor, referee, or coach explain the pass back, it's included the trickery clause.

Therefore, anyone who knows about the passback rule usually knows about the trickery clause, and doesn't even think to do it in a game.

[Wreave]

Therefore, anyone who knows about the passback rule usually knows about the trickery clause, and doesn't even think to do it in a game.

I have had players ask me about it. They think they're super smart, and never cease to be amazed that FIFA is actually a step ahead of them.

Though in their defense, it does seem rare...

[refmike]

I am reluctant to call a passback unless it is intended to delay the game by giving the ball to the keeper to hold. That was the reason for the rule in the first place. If the keeper puts the ball right out, I will usually let it go. Most of the time I can justify it as not a deliberate kick to the keeper. A few times there was one but I failed to recognize it and kicked myself afterword for not calling it at the time. All in all, it is hardly ever called in my area.

[vabeacher]

Only called it maybe 3 times over the past 4 years. Most of them have involved substitute goal keepers who are not their team's primary keepers. They were usually subbed in because their teams had huge leads, so I had no problems making the calls.

Last one I called was in an adult amateur game, one of the teams got an athletic guy, with no soccer knowledge, to play keeper for them. Passback came from almost mid-field, no other player within 30 yards of the keeper and he picks it up. It was one of those "Crap, I can't believe he picked it up" moments. After his teammates expalined the rule to him, he didn't have any further problems.

[aevange8]

I called it twice in one half in an over 30 premier league match. In my area that division is a lot of former D1 players and a few former pros. The guy that was playing keeper though was just a stand-in keeper, so I guess that was the only explanation. He was under pressure and just gave up the indirect free kick instead of a poor clearance and maybe a goal.




right on vabeacher

[EJDad]

That's pretty much my experience. I called it more when the laws were first changed than I have since. The keepers are usually pretty careful. I still get queries from attacking teams on whether certain deflections and mis-kicks are passbacks. They haven't been. My most spectacular "passback" was a girls JV game. A defender just beyond the outside corner of the penalty area cleared a chest-high ball towards her own far upper 90! :eek: The keeper made a running jumping outstanding save. When asked, I told the attacking team it didn't look like an intentional pass to me!

I wish I had had you in the in the middle. When I was coaching( college) one of my players essentially biked the ball from just outside the 18 back towards her own goal- Back pass called. :eek: Of course they scored on the free kick. I told the CR after the game (privately and with a smile) that he didn't need to call that- If I thought she had biked it back to the keeper on purpose she would never play again!

[sandaroo]

Only called it once. BU12 championship game. A defender with the ball got trapped outside the PA and started to dribble back towards his goal line. He was to the right of the goal, with an attacker to his right and one directly behind him. The keeper (extremly skilled for a U12 player) calls for the ball, gets the ball, and picks up the ball. So I make the call, which I would generally never do at a U12 level, but felt my hands were tied in this situation. I have my arm up as high as possible for the IFK, an attacker quickly takes the kick, sending it directly into the back of the net. I took a moment prior to the resulting goal-kick to ask the keeper if he knew why I blew the whistle, his reply was "yes, I can't pick it up once he (pointing to the the defender making the pass) kicks it to me". All in all it was good learning experience, especially for the attacker who asked why his "goal" didn't count.

[AlsoRan]

I called it this spring in a women's league game. The defender was in trouble in the PA, and tapped it about three yards to the keeper who picked it up. I whistled, put my arm up for the IFK, and an attacker placed the ball for a quick quick. "We're gonna wait for a whistle!" says the keeper and picks the ball back up. Caution to the keeper for delaying the restart, and then a whole lot of explaining - keeper can't handle a pass from a teammate, no right to set a wall, defenders can stand on the goalline - before the IFK was missed. No argument from the keeper, but the rest of the defending team was incredulous.