And our second forward is.....?

[JoeW]

Okay, Arena came in for lots of criticism for playing a 4-5-1. Lots of criticism from others (especially Waldo) about not playing Eddie Johnson more. There was more criticism from others for trying to play Donovan as a withdrawn forward against the Czechs in the first match. I was also someone who argued that EJ needed to be on the WC roster b/c even though he was out of form, he was do dynamic physically that if he got "hot" he could become a force. That said....

If Donovan is scoreless in his least 16 international matches (now I believe it's scoreless in his last 19 matches), the data that I believe is correct for Eddie Johnson is:

--3 goals in his last 24 matches (club and country).
--5 goals in his last 38 matches (club and country--and this with 3 different coaches, Gansler, Arena and Bliss--so you can't blame it just on one coach and one formation).
--2 goals in his last 10 matches for his club.

It's real hard to look at this data and argue that EJ's failure to score in MLS and even against National "B" sides prior to the WC, that he would have produced results if he'd had been our second forward in Germany.

A different take anyone?

[england66]

Okay, Arena came in for lots of criticism for playing a 4-5-1. Lots of criticism from others (especially Waldo) about not playing Eddie Johnson more. There was more criticism from others for trying to play Donovan as a withdrawn forward against the Czechs in the first match. I was also someone who argued that EJ needed to be on the WC roster b/c even though he was out of form, he was do dynamic physically that if he got "hot" he could become a force. That said....

If Donovan is scoreless in his least 16 international matches (now I believe it's scoreless in his last 19 matches), the data that I believe is correct for Eddie Johnson is:

--3 goals in his last 24 matches (club and country).
--5 goals in his last 38 matches (club and country--and this with 3 different coaches, Gansler, Arena and Bliss--so you can't blame it just on one coach and one formation).
--2 goals in his last 10 matches for his club.

It's real hard to look at this data and argue that EJ's failure to score in MLS and even against National "B" sides prior to the WC, that he would have produced results if he'd had been our second forward in Germany.

A different take anyone?


shoulda given Cooper a chance.....FCD knew what they were doing when they got rid of EJ....

[ty webb]

Okay, Arena came in for lots of criticism for playing a 4-5-1. Lots of criticism from others (especially Waldo) about not playing Eddie Johnson more. There was more criticism from others for trying to play Donovan as a withdrawn forward against the Czechs in the first match. I was also someone who argued that EJ needed to be on the WC roster b/c even though he was out of form, he was do dynamic physically that if he got "hot" he could become a force. That said....

If Donovan is scoreless in his least 16 international matches (now I believe it's scoreless in his last 19 matches), the data that I believe is correct for Eddie Johnson is:

--3 goals in his last 24 matches (club and country).
--5 goals in his last 38 matches (club and country--and this with 3 different coaches, Gansler, Arena and Bliss--so you can't blame it just on one coach and one formation).
--2 goals in his last 10 matches for his club.

It's real hard to look at this data and argue that EJ's failure to score in MLS and even against National "B" sides prior to the WC, that he would have produced results if he'd had been our second forward in Germany.

A different take anyone?

BA completely fuc***d up at the world cup. The preparation and tactics were laughable. He should have brought forwards he was comfortable with. There are plenty of forwards who could have done a decent job. But, the main point, is he played Mchead alone up top. Mchead is a terrible lone striker so he was always going to be useless when he can get marked by two central defenders.

Even in a must win game against a beatable team, BA played with useless tactics with Mchead by himself. I don't care who he played up there. Just pick someone and quit coaching like a BITCH.

I am very happy BA is gone.

[Fires Of Fulham]

BA completely fuc***d up at the world cup. The preparation and tactics were laughable. He should have brought forwards he was comfortable with. There are plenty of forwards who could have done a decent job. But, the main point, is he played Mchead alone up top. Mchead is a terrible lone striker so he was always going to be useless when he can get marked by two central defenders.


The second forward needed to be someone to run at defenders which Donovan was absolutely unable to do. Dempsey might as well have been our second striker because he was at least playing the 4-5-1 like it's supposed to be played. Josh Wolff, sadly, was our best choice there as far as taking people on. And McBride and Wolff have worked together in the past no less.

[Maximum Optimal]

It is a fair point to say that the options were not plentiful or appealing. I still think EJ would have been the best choice and that he and McBride should have been played together more often than just the Latvia game in the runup. Going back to late 2005 and the January camp, Rolfe is the guy who should have been given more of a chance to show what he could do. And yes I think the Bruce should have been more open-minded about how quickly certain um very young players can improve. Who knows what Freddy would have done if given 90 minutes againt Norway or Jamaica. I dare say he might have done as well as some of the guys who were given the PT. But hey the Bruce wanted to give more PT to guys like Noonan, Wolff and Ralston so he must have known best.

[FnordUnitedFC]

Our second best forward is clearly Cherundolo, who scored a belter from all of 75 yards against Germany. Strike that, he may be our best forward. Of course, we could always get Agoos out of retirement and ask him to pick the upper corner from 30 yards. This time we'll even tell him to face the opposing goal when he does it. It's always the little things like that that mess up a good striker.

[Sachin]

Right now, I'm more worried about our first forward.

Sachin

[onefineesq]

Okay, Arena came in for lots of criticism for playing a 4-5-1. Lots of criticism from others (especially Waldo) about not playing Eddie Johnson more. There was more criticism from others for trying to play Donovan as a withdrawn forward against the Czechs in the first match. I was also someone who argued that EJ needed to be on the WC roster b/c even though he was out of form, he was do dynamic physically that if he got "hot" he could become a force. That said....

If Donovan is scoreless in his least 16 international matches (now I believe it's scoreless in his last 19 matches), the data that I believe is correct for Eddie Johnson is:

--3 goals in his last 24 matches (club and country).
--5 goals in his last 38 matches (club and country--and this with 3 different coaches, Gansler, Arena and Bliss--so you can't blame it just on one coach and one formation).
--2 goals in his last 10 matches for his club.

It's real hard to look at this data and argue that EJ's failure to score in MLS and even against National "B" sides prior to the WC, that he would have produced results if he'd had been our second forward in Germany.

A different take anyone? Yes, the different take is that we had NOONE, outside of Ching, who was actually performing at a high level going into the WC. I said this prior to the WC and I will say it again ......... Brian McBride hadn't scored with Fulham since the February 4, 2006 game. After that point, he played approximately 12 more games for Fulham and 5 games with the US to date. So we're talking somewhere in the 17 game range. His total goals scored? ONE. Against Latvia. Truly impressive, eh? This talk about not having someone to partner Brian McBride is nonsense. With the form that our forwards were in, throwing anyone up top, INCLUDING McBride, was a hit and hope. McBride was as out of form at that moment as was EJ. And he had much more time to make a difference in the WC than EJ did, and he didn't do it. Seems to me that we should be starting threads about why Ching wasn't started ............ and NOT about whether EJ was good enough to partner the equally impotent Brian McBride.

[JoeW]

Yes, the different take is that we had NOONE, outside of Ching, who was actually performing at a high level going into the WC. I said this prior to the WC and I will say it again ......... Brian McBride hadn't scored with Fulham since the February 4, 2006 game. After that point, he played approximately 12 more games for Fulham and 5 games with the US to date. So we're talking somewhere in the 17 game range. His total goals scored? ONE. Against Latvia. Truly impressive, eh? This talk about not having someone to partner Brian McBride is nonsense. With the form that our forwards were in, throwing anyone up top, INCLUDING McBride, was a hit and hope. McBride was as out of form at that moment as was EJ. And he had much more time to make a difference in the WC than EJ did, and he didn't do it. Seems to me that we should be starting threads about why Ching wasn't started ............ and NOT about whether EJ was good enough to partner the equally impotent Brian McBride.

Well, actually McBride scored TWO goals (he had another one against Angola when they had 10 men). Not real impressive but just wanted to set the record straight statistically.

McBride wasn't in great form. But you know he'll win some balls, play unselfishly, work hard off the ball and defend (even if his finishing isn't there). But you're absolutely right that we had NO good options at forward. If Donovan isn't going to step up, well....we're hurting pups (as it turned out to be the case).

[Bajoro]

...He should have brought forwards he was comfortable with. There are plenty of forwards who could have done a decent job. ....

HA HA HA HA HA AHAHAHAA HA!!

Good one.

(Seriously. Almost made me gag.)

[sidefootsitter]

Yes, the different take is that we had NOONE, outside of Ching, who was actually performing at a high level going into the WC.... You and I touched on this briefly on another thread. Bruce had played Twin Towers before and there was no reason for him not to do it at the Cup, considering that he gave up the idea of advancing the ball on the ground and played entirely for a cross off the flanks.

And so, he should have played Convey/Lewis and Mullan on the wings and any of two of McBride/Cooper/ Casey/Ching in the middle. McBride and Cooper can actually play a little off anyway.

This may not have brought many style points to the fore but all four of the above strikers would have brought the balls to Germany.

But Bruce had made a total mishmash of his schemes and game day strategy.

[coldfusion]

Bruce had played Twin Towers before and there was no reason for him not to do it at the Cup, considering that he gave up the idea of advancing the ball on the ground and played entirely for a cross off the flanks.

And so, he should have played Convey/Lewis and Mullan on the wings and any of two of McBride/Cooper/ Casey/Ching in the middle. McBride and Cooper can actually play a little off anyway.

This may not have brought many style points to the fore but all four of the above strikers would have brought the balls to Germany.

But Bruce had made a total mishmash of his schemes and game day strategy.

I did mention that parallel world, didn't I? The one where our strikers were McBride, Cooper, Johnson and Razov, and the team advanced playing a 4-4-2?

[DCSharksFC]

Our second best forward is clearly Cherundolo, who scored a belter from all of 75 yards against Germany. Strike that, he may be our best forward. Of course, we could always get Agoos out of retirement and ask him to pick the upper corner from 30 yards. This time we'll even tell him to face the opposing goal when he does it. It's always the little things like that that mess up a good striker.

i'm starting to think clarence goodson of FCD should get a look, hell he'd have to work with agoos though on which goal to score on

on a serious note, our second forward is/should be:

alecko eskandarian

[onefineesq]

Well, actually McBride scored TWO goals (he had another one against Angola when they had 10 men). Not real impressive but just wanted to set the record straight statistically.

McBride wasn't in great form. But you know he'll win some balls, play unselfishly, work hard off the ball and defend (even if his finishing isn't there). But you're absolutely right that we had NO good options at forward. If Donovan isn't going to step up, well....we're hurting pups (as it turned out to be the case). Angola was a closed door scrimmage. You want to start counting scrimmage games? Should we be counting pre-season scrimmages in MLS? Bottom line, Fifa doesn't recognize the goal, so you are wrong. Is wasn't a sanctioned match, so it wasn't a goal for the sake of these purposes. Period. So we are back where we started. The fact is that the main job of forwards is to score. McBride scored ONE, yes ONE goal in games that counted during a period of 4 months as a starter......... and it was against Latvia. He was ineffective at best, and the way people are building him up as the poor guy who couldn't find someone to partner his great prowess, when the fact is that he couldn't score in a brothel himself, is getting tiresome. Great guy. Wonderful professional. Ineffective at the international level at 34.

[onefineesq]

You and I touched on this briefly on another thread. Bruce had played Twin Towers before and there was no reason for him not to do it at the Cup, considering that he gave up the idea of advancing the ball on the ground and played entirely for a cross off the flanks.

And so, he should have played Convey/Lewis and Mullan on the wings and any of two of McBride/Cooper/ Casey/Ching in the middle. McBride and Cooper can actually play a little off anyway.

This may not have brought many style points to the fore but all four of the above strikers would have brought the balls to Germany.

But Bruce had made a total mishmash of his schemes and game day strategy. We touched on it before, and my opinion remains the same. When Bruce played twin towers, the team was ineffective. We played twin towers two games in a row (with Ching and Casey) in qualifying, and the results were pathetic enough that Bruce had to reach back into his bag and pull Wolff back off the scrap heap. So yeah, there was a great reason for Bruce not to play it at this WC ............ it didn't work.

[JoeW]

Angola was a closed door scrimmage. You want to start counting scrimmage games? Should we be counting pre-season scrimmages in MLS? Bottom line, Fifa doesn't recognize the goal, so you are wrong. Is wasn't a sanctioned match, so it wasn't a goal for the sake of these purposes. Period. So we are back where we started. The fact is that the main job of forwards is to score. McBride scored ONE, yes ONE goal in games that counted during a period of 4 months as a starter......... and it was against Latvia. He was ineffective at best, and the way people are building him up as the poor guy who couldn't find someone to partner his great prowess, when the fact is that he couldn't score in a brothel himself, is getting tiresome. Great guy. Wonderful professional. Ineffective at the international level at 34.

Hey--no offense--I was just being silly. I mean, you say "he's not in form, he scored 1 goal in X number of games" and I respond with "uh--he had TWO, when Angola was a man down." Doesn't exactly make the case for Brian being in great form does it? And you're right, it certainly doesn't count as an international goal.

I know this sounds ridiculous but if we'd started players based on form, we would have had a formation without any forwards (something like a 4-6-0).

[Fires Of Fulham]

alecko eskandarian

I'm going to poke myself in the eye for saying this but...by fate, you might be right. He deserves as much of a shot as anyone since he came back from the concussion.

[The Big Ticket]

I like Eskandarian as well. Plays with so much passion and intensity, and has a deadly left foot. Not a big guy but strong enough not to get pushed around all the time.

[sidefootsitter]

We touched on it before, and my opinion remains the same. When Bruce played twin towers, the team was ineffective. We played twin towers two games in a row (with Ching and Casey) in qualifying, and the results were pathetic enough that Bruce had to reach back into his bag and pull Wolff back off the scrap heap. So yeah, there was a great reason for Bruce not to play it at this WC ............ it didn't work. 19 shots vs. El Salvador.

[Blue Eyed Soul]

Right now I'd start EJ and Kenny Cooper