Unusual geographic soccer affiliations

[tomwilhelm]

I posted this as a response in an oddball Portugese forum thread, but thought I'd throw the idea out there somewhere more worldwide.

There are a number of countries which, for one reason or another, are members of UEFA, yet linger at the fringes (or beyond in some cases) of Europe. It got me wondering about what the process for entry into a federation is based on.

Anyway, here's the post (slightly edited):

Which of these countries are actually in (the currently accepted definition of) Europe and/or why are they in UEFA?

3) Belarus
7) Russia
8) Ukraine

All three are European nations. To think otherwise is to completely ignore cultural and physical geography.

4) Turkey

The very definition of a transcontinental country. It's largest city straddles the border. Hard to argue against them being in UEFA.

1) Azerbaijan
9) Georgia

According to geographers, these two Caucasus countries have a majority of their populations in Europe and are generally more culturally European than Asian. More on their neighbor, Armenia, in a minute...

6) Kazahkstan

While it is culturally and politically affiliated with Asia, the portion of Kazahkstan west of the Ural River is in Europe. Not a strong case, but probably got in on a technicality because they wanted the better competition.

2) Armenia

An Asian country, though it's strong European ties and shared borders with other UEFA members got it's foot in the door. A marginal case at best.

5) Israel

An Asian country. In UEFA for purely political and security reasons. Israel simply could not play football as a member of AFC.

--------------

The only countries I'm aware of outside of Europe that have unusual soccer affiliations would be Surinam (Concacaf, located in South America) and Australia (moved to AFC).

Other thoughts on the subject?

[Elninho]

Guyana is also in CONCACAF.

That said, the world of soccer is far less confusing than the stop-gap that they used to have... for some reason, Israel and Taiwan (excuse me, Chinese Taipei) both competed in Oceania for political reasons. Israel being obvious, and Taiwan because tensions with China were a good bit higher at one point.

[almango]

The only countries I'm aware of outside of Europe that have unusual soccer affiliations would be Surinam (Concacaf, located in South America) and Australia (moved to AFC).

Other thoughts on the subject?

Not too sure about Surinam but I know that Guyana who is also on the South African continent is strongly aligned culturally and historically to the Carribean and that is why it ended up in CONCACAF. I know they've produced some damn fine cricketers over the years.

Australia is an interesting case because we have little in common culturally with OFC and AFC. We are basically European in culture, but probably resemble the USA more than any other country. My major impression of the USA when I briefly visited last year was that it was just like home only bigger. We do have a large Asian population from all over Asia and most of our trade is conducted with Asian countries so I think we will develop closer relations with Asia over the years, but I can't see us ever being considered an Asian country.

[scaryice]

All former USSR countries originally had an offer to join UEFA. It's because they were already competing in UEFA as a part of the Soviet Union.

That's also how they were able to justify Kazakhstan joining a couple years ago.

[scaryice]

Guyana, Surinam, and French Guyana are members of CONCACAF probably because of their weakness.

[Natrium]

Turkey has 3% of its territory in Europe, it's clearly asian. Cyprus is asian and a UEFA member as well. Obviously they don't care much for actual geographic boundaries. I guess the UEFA would let Brazil and Argentina join if both wanted to.

[tomwilhelm]

Guyana, Surinam, and French Guyana are members of CONCACAF probably because of their weakness.
Just like Australia is now a member of AFC because of its strength.

[Milliano]

Cyprus is asian and a UEFA member as well. Obviously they don't care much for actual geographic boundaries. I guess the UEFA would let Brazil and Argentina join if both wanted to.

Cyprus is an EU member. And most people on the island are Greek (which is European)

[Gary V]

Guam plays in Asia.

Meaning the US is the only country that has citizens eligible for 3 different confederations.

[Pike]

[QUOTE=tomwilhelm]
4) Turkey
The very definition of a transcontinental country. It's largest city straddles the border. Hard to argue against them being in UEFA.
[QUOTE]
My understanding of Turkish history, is that both the Seljuk and "*Otto" turks came from Asia. I believe they were still Indo- Europeans, but that is not unusual.

*My Turkish history is bit foggy, I believe the name originates from a person/ leader. The movement/ rebellion took began in Asia Minor.


[QUOTE=tomwilhelm]
1) Azerbaijan
9) Georgia
....2) Armenia
According to geographers, these two Caucasus countries have a majority of their populations in Europe and are generally more culturally European than Asian. More on their neighbor, Armenia, in a minute...
[QUOTE]

When I taught geography, I taught that the Caucases States were Asian States. They may have a more "European outlook," since they were part of the USSR/ *Russian Empire prior to their independence.

* I believe in 1917 at the outbreak of war, they were part of Russia and Ottoman Empires. I have to check, as I said, this area, my knowledge is bit sketchy.

In any event, they could easily make a case to belong in both UEFA and AFC.


[QUOTE=tomwilhelm]
6) Kazahkstan
While it is culturally and politically affiliated with Asia, the portion of Kazahkstan west of the Ural River is in Europe. Not a strong case, but probably got in on a technicality because they wanted the better competition.
[QUOTE]

If Russia is Europeans, Kazakhstan is Asian. North of the Caspian Sea the dividing line between Europe is actually sketchy at best. The Urals are mere "foothills," hardly worthy of the name, "mountains."

They have just of a cause to join UEFA as anyone else from the former USSR.

Pike

[Caesar]

My Turkish history is bit foggy, I believe the name originates from a person/ leader. The movement/ rebellion took began in Asia Minor.
Other way around... the leader took his name from the country.

The name originates with the Turkic peoples who comprise the majority of the ethnic origin of the Turks.

[nutbar]

At one point, I think it was the 1960 Olympic qualifiers, Malta competed with African teams. I don't know if they were ever part of CAF though.

[nicodemus]

2) Armenia

An Asian country, though it's strong European ties and shared borders with other UEFA members got it's foot in the door. A marginal case at best.


I'd would also say that Armenia's shared historical cultural heritage with Europe as a predominantly Christian nation would merit it's inclusion in UEFA.

I also fail to understand how a country that borders Azerbaijan on a longitudinal border and is further west than Azerbaijan isn't up for geographical consideration if Azerbaijan is?

http://www.kokhavivpublications.com/help/maps/images/armenia_map.gif

[tomwilhelm]

I'd would also say that Armenia's shared historical cultural heritage with Europe as a predominantly Christian nation would merit it's inclusion in UEFA.

I also fail to understand how a country that borders Azerbaijan on a longitudinal border and is further west than Azerbaijan isn't up for geographical consideration if Azerbaijan is?

http://www.kokhavivpublications.com/help/maps/images/armenia_map.gif
I don't think longitude is a factor in this case. My assertion about Armenia is based on the several border definitions provided by this wiki article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcontinental_nation#Countries_in_both_Asia_and_Europe), all of which place the entirety of Armenia in Asia. Here's a map of the currently argued limits:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/74/TransAsia_m.png

[mexicano]

Not too sure about Surinam but I know that Guyana who is also on the South African continent is strongly aligned culturally and historically to the Carribean and that is why it ended up in CONCACAF. I know they've produced some damn fine cricketers over the years.

Australia is an interesting case because we have little in common culturally with OFC and AFC. We are basically European in culture, but probably resemble the USA more than any other country. My major impression of the USA when I briefly visited last year was that it was just like home only bigger. We do have a large Asian population from all over Asia and most of our trade is conducted with Asian countries so I think we will develop closer relations with Asia over the years, but I can't see us ever being considered an Asian country.

you mean South American continent

[almango]

you mean South American continent

Yes I did. Thanks for that.

[Metropolitan]

Guyana, Surinam, and French Guyana are members of CONCACAF probably because of their weakness.Guyana, Surinam and French Guyana are culturally speaking more Caribbean countries than anything else. About 95% of their territory is made of dense rainforest making most people living along the coast which are in direct connections with Caribbean islands.

Now, to get more accurate, French Guyana actually belongs to the UEFA since it's part of the French Football Federation as any other French departements. This includes mainland France, Corsica, Martinique, Guadeloupe, French Guyana and Reunion. Florent Malouda, who played the World Cup final, is actually from French Guyana.

The only territories controlled by France that have their own national teams are Tahiti (French Polynesia) and New Caledonia. However, as people from those territories are French citizens I guess they can chose for which team they would like to play. Christian Karembeu, which was a World Champion in 1998, was actually a Kanak from New Caledonia. Now, New Caledonia didn't have its own national team then.

[AlbertCamus]

Guyana, Surinam, and French Guyana are members of CONCACAF probably because of their weakness.

I think they are considered Carribean countries culturally as well. They were not Spanish or Portuguese colonies.

From Wikipedia, which is never wrong- right?

Geography of French Guiana

Though sharing cultural affinities with the French-speaking territories of the Caribbean, French Guiana cannot be considered to be part of that region, since the Caribbean Sea actually lies several hundred miles to the west,

French Guiana is part of France, so I wonder if they are in FIFA? One famous person listed was a French International, Florent Malouda.

Surinam was a Dutch colony, it is now independent. It is a member of the Caribbean Community (CARICOM).

Guyana was a British Colony. Again from Wikipedia: Though physically part of South America, culturally Guyana is more Caribbean than Latin American and it is considered part of the West Indies.

Primary language is English, second language is Creolese. I bet this country is more like New Orleans than South America.