Liability Insurance

[kevbrunton]

Is anyone aware of where referees and officials can acquire their own liability insurance?

I have heard officials in our local association comment that the insurance provided by the NFOA is inadequate coverage for the HS events that we do and we have now just learned that some games that we referee such as friendlies are not covered by the USSF provided insurance.

So anyone aware of a place to get either additional coverage or to get coverage for the non-affiliated stuff?

Thanks.

[Greyhnd00]

Please give me information on one single instance of a referee being successfully sued by a player or team for a performance on the field..........Not generalities or "i heard"
I have held this challenge up for over two years and noone can give me ONE CASE....
If you do...I will buy you a beverage of your choice. :)

[kevbrunton]

Originally posted by Greyhnd00
Please give me information on one single instance of a referee being successfully sued by a player or team for a performance on the field..........Not generalities or "i heard"
I have held this challenge up for over two years and noone can give me ONE CASE....
If you do...I will buy you a beverage of your choice. :)
I will get the details for you, but here in South Bend, a goal keeper got kicked in the head in a scrum in front of the goal. She was hurt pretty seriously and it was a game that had gotten somewhat out of hand (that part is hearsay).

The referee, the assignor, the referee association, the Jr. Irish soccer club and the airport authority (the owners of the fields) got sued.

I don't know the outcome. I will find out what ever happened with this. I can't remember if this happened last year or the year before.

Also, note that SUCCESSFULLY sued is not the point. If you are sued and it goes anywhere at all, you're going to have a decent sized legal bill to pay.

[Scott Zawadzki]

Not sure about this but check with the agent who does your homeowners or auto insurance. I heard that you can pick up an 'umbrella' liability rider for pretty low cost.

Scott

[Greyhnd00]

Originally posted by kevbrunton
I will get the details for you, but here in South Bend, a goal keeper got kicked in the head in a scrum in front of the goal. She was hurt pretty seriously and it was a game that had gotten somewhat out of hand (that part is hearsay).

The referee, the assignor, the referee association, the Jr. Irish soccer club and the airport authority (the owners of the fields) got sued.

I don't know the outcome. I will find out what ever happened with this. I can't remember if this happened last year or the year before.

Also, note that SUCCESSFULLY sued is not the point. If you are sued and it goes anywhere at all, you're going to have a decent sized legal bill to pay.
Looking forward to your details.....
LETS USE OUR HEADS A LITTLE BIT! You cant get blood from a turnip. There has never been a million dollar settlement for injury or other in a soccer match. As soon as they did that the first time, watch out MLS referees! Sounds like somebody has been watching too many LA Law reruns! ;)

[billf]

Here are a couple of hypotheticals.

First, it is the referee's responsiblity to check that the goals are securely anchored. If it's a windy day and a goal blows over seriously injuring or killing a player, the referee can be brought into the suit.

Second, a field, used all of the time by a club, is in a condition that could be considered dangerous. Let's say there are a few holes or depressions, the field is hard and rocky, a few exposed sprinkler heads, and there is a one inch lip separating the dirt infield of an adjacent baseball field encroaching on part of the field. Let's say a player catches his leg and severely breaks it. The referee can be sued.

Now in both of those cases, the referee was so wrong that the USSF liability insurance policy will not cover him anyway. However, if the referee did his job and verified that there were safe goals and that there was a safe field, then the insurance is there to help him out if a player is hurt and he is sued.

A parent could strike another parent and the referee could get sued. It might not go anywhere, but its still costs the referee money to defend himself.

In New Jersey, there was an incident with a referee not letting a kid play with a head dress of some sort. I think it was a turban. Anyway, the state and the referee were sued for not letting the kid play. I believe a USSF memo came out as a result. You might not be able to think of situation where you could be sued, but all over the place in this country over so many issues people are sued for the most bizarre reasons.

Most insurance is never used. I think the reason the USSF can insure us all inexpensively is because it's a small risk. However, its a good thing to have, and the protection it offers is a great reason to do your job by the book.

[Paul Nasta]

Originally posted by Greyhnd00
Please give me information on one single instance of a referee being successfully sued by a player or team for a performance on the field..........Not generalities or "i heard"
I have held this challenge up for over two years and noone can give me ONE CASE....
If you do...I will buy you a beverage of your choice. :)

I don't know about "successfully sued", as you state, but there is nothing to stop someone from suing a referee if they feel they've been injured as a result of that referee's negligence. And as Kevbrunton pointed out, it will cost alot to defend yourself against such a lawsuit, even if you ultimately prevail (the is no rule in the US that the loser pays the winner's legal fees).

I do know of one case involving a collegiate rugby match in which the referee was sued by one of the players who had been seriously injured in the game (paralysis). Odds are, the lawsuit will be dismissed at some point, but if the referee didn't have insurance to pay his legal bills, he'd be screwed.

Finally, I agree that if a referee is ever found to be liable for injuries suffered during a game, it will be a very dangerous precedent.

[kevbrunton]

Originally posted by Greyhnd00
Looking forward to your details.....
LETS USE OUR HEADS A LITTLE BIT! You cant get blood from a turnip. There has never been a million dollar settlement for injury or other in a soccer match. As soon as they did that the first time, watch out MLS referees! Sounds like somebody has been watching too many LA Law reruns! ;)
I asked our DRA about the incident. Yes they did get sued, but he could not give me any details -- he could not talk about it. To me that means there was probably a settlement. This was a USSF sanctioned match, so the USSF insurance would have been involved.

Yes, let's use our heads -- and I hate LA Law, so don't give me that crap. I am going to find and get a blanket coverage policy and I won't ever have to worry about it.

[Greyhnd00]

Originally posted by billf
Here are a couple of hypotheticals.

First, it is the referee's responsiblity to check that the goals are securely anchored. If it's a windy day and a goal blows over seriously injuring or killing a player, the referee can be brought into the suit.
He Can??
How???
For what???
When has this EVER happened?
I think I said lets not get into rediculous hypotheticals and lets talk about facts.

Originally posted by billf

Second, a field, used all of the time by a club, is in a condition that could be considered dangerous. Let's say there are a few holes or depressions, the field is hard and rocky, a few exposed sprinkler heads, and there is a one inch lip separating the dirt infield of an adjacent baseball field encroaching on part of the field. Let's say a player catches his leg and severely breaks it. The referee can be sued.
He Can??
How???
For what???
When has this EVER happened?
I think I said lets not get into rediculous hypotheticals and lets talk about facts.


Originally posted by billf

Now in both of those cases, the referee was so wrong that the USSF liability insurance policy will not cover him anyway. However, if the referee did his job and verified that there were safe goals and that there was a safe field, then the insurance is there to help him out if a player is hurt and he is sued.
If an errant piece of the space shuttle suddenly falls out of the sky I am sure that there is also an insurance agency somewhere out there who will gladly take your money to cover you.

Originally posted by billf

A parent could strike another parent and the referee could get sued. It might not go anywhere, but its still costs the referee money to defend himself.
He Can??
How???
For what???
When has this EVER happened?
I think I said lets not get into rediculous hypotheticals and lets talk about facts
Originally posted by billf

In New Jersey, there was an incident with a referee not letting a kid play with a head dress of some sort. I think it was a turban. Anyway, the state and the referee were sued for not letting the kid play. I believe a USSF memo came out as a result. You might not be able to think of situation where you could be sued, but all over the place in this country over so many issues people are sued for the most bizarre reasons.Why is that do you think? Maybe because the insurance companys are willing to insure ANYTHING and the lawyers are willing to litigate anything that is insured? Well the fact is that soccer referees are not being sued because little johny gets a blade of grass in his eye and we dont need to pay insurance companies to cover us in case the sky falls or hell freezes over.

Originally posted by billf

Most insurance is never used. I think the reason the USSF can insure us all inexpensively is because it's a small risk. However, its a good thing to have, and the protection it offers is a great reason to do your job by the book. It is also a huge number of participants in the plan. By the way I had a friend in the DC area who was assaulted and had a shoulder dislocated while doing a sanctioned match...the insurance did nothing for him.

[andylovesoccer]

I was informed during a recent certification class that it IS the reponsibility of the referee to make sure the goals are secured. If they are not, don't start the match until something is done about them. If you do start the match without securing the goals, you are liable for any resulting injury.

As a referee, you are responsible for the safety of the players on the field. Of course you aren't going to be held liable for a hard tackle, or kick in the face, but examining the field and all equipment to determine safety is your responsibility. If someone impales themself on a corner flag because it is too short and has a sharp point on the top, the referee is at fault for playing the game with unsafe equipment.

Part of your job is to make the game safe. Do your job and you won't have anything to worry about. You do get paid, you know?

[Greyhnd00]

Way to step into the board and make friends Mr. Biltmore..........Of course who am I to talk!

[jacathcart]

Originally posted by Greyhnd00
Please give me information on one single instance of a referee being successfully sued by a player or team for a performance on the field..........Not generalities or "i heard"
I have held this challenge up for over two years and noone can give me ONE CASE....
If you do...I will buy you a beverage of your choice. :)

I just acted as a volunteer juror/adviser for the YMCA "moot court" competition here and the fact situation was one where one player was being criminally prosecuted for a devastating slide tackle way late which destroyed a knee.

I am very frequently asked "If I do [this or that] can I be sued?" My answer is always "yes". Whether they can be successfully sued is another question. When we accept an assignment and step on the field we are assuming a duty to the players - that of enforcing the laws of the game and protecting the safety of the players.

Regardless of where the game is, someone or some organization is responsible for the condition of the field. If there is an "ankle breaker" hole in the field you are responsible for knowing it is there and informing the home coach or field manager that the game won't be played until it is filled in. Failure to know it is there is negligence on your part because you are supposed to inspect the field. Failure to know that the goals are not secured and to ensure that they are is negligence.

A tort lawsuit must allege breach of a duty owed to the plaintiff - either of those hypos would qualify.

The fact that there are few successful lawsuits against refs/umps/etc. will be small consolation if you are the exception. Psychologically it is very difficult to refuse to allow a game to be played if you don't believe the conditions are safe - the players and coaches and parents have a lot invested in having the game played and they will whine.

"Umbrella policies" through your homeowners insurance are cheap - you can choose to insure or not based on the fact that the risk you will be sued is very small but that is not the same as nonexistent.

The posters who warned of the cost of a successful defense are right. Although the central focus of the current debate over tort reform to cap damages is "Jackpot Verdicts" the real expense is in having to defend suits the insurers win - or to settle because of concern over the huge verdict.



Jim

[Greyhnd00]

Originally posted by jacathcart
I just acted as a volunteer juror/adviser for the YMCA "moot court" competition here and the fact situation was one where one player was being criminally prosecuted for a devastating slide tackle way late which destroyed a knee.

I am very frequently asked "If I do [this or that] can I be sued?" My answer is always "yes". Whether they can be successfully sued is another question. When we accept an assignment and step on the field we are assuming a duty to the players - that of enforcing the laws of the game and protecting the safety of the players.

Regardless of where the game is, someone or some organization is responsible for the condition of the field. If there is an "ankle breaker" hole in the field you are responsible for knowing it is there and informing the home coach or field manager that the game won't be played until it is filled in. Failure to know it is there is negligence on your part because you are supposed to inspect the field. Failure to know that the goals are not secured and to ensure that they are is negligence.

A tort lawsuit must allege breach of a duty owed to the plaintiff - either of those hypos would qualify.

The fact that there are few successful lawsuits against refs/umps/etc. will be small consolation if you are the exception. Psychologically it is very difficult to refuse to allow a game to be played if you don't believe the conditions are safe - the players and coaches and parents have a lot invested in having the game played and they will whine.

"Umbrella policies" through your homeowners insurance are cheap - you can choose to insure or not based on the fact that the risk you will be sued is very small but that is not the same as nonexistent.

The posters who warned of the cost of a successful defense are right. Although the central focus of the current debate over tort reform to cap damages is "Jackpot Verdicts" the real expense is in having to defend suits the insurers win - or to settle because of concern over the huge verdict.



Jim Thank god we finally have an attorney here to add to the confusion that the insurance rep started........Who wants to start with the lawyer jokes.
Still waiting not for the FEW successful cases but for the ONE that I asked for. Maybe a judge or politician will pipe in with an unsubstantiated assertion that you can indeed be sued for anything at anytime.

[andylovesoccer]

Who needs a judge or politician to say it? This is the good ol USA. You CAN be sued for anything at anytime. Remember the case of stupid idiot woman who drives with her coffee in her lap vs. McDonalds? She won. It is, unfortunately, a hyperlitigious society we live in. I would prefer to just make sure the fields are safe and not take the risk of being sued because I was too lazy to walk around the field for fifteen minutes before the game starts.

[Greyhnd00]

Originally posted by andylovesoccer
Who needs a judge or politician to say it? This is the good ol USA. You CAN be sued for anything at anytime. Remember the case of stupid idiot woman who drives with her coffee in her lap vs. McDonalds? She won. It is, unfortunately, a hyperlitigious society we live in. I would prefer to just make sure the fields are safe and not take the risk of being sued because I was too lazy to walk around the field for fifteen minutes before the game starts. When you get a few games under your belt you will realize while the text on this board is written in black and white, life is not. I cant tell you how many things I have seen on the various leagues I have worked for that were less then perfect with respect to safety. Holes with sprinkler heads on the field. Goal with non-rounded edges. Sprinkler system control panels on the AR sides of the field that broke when I stepped on them. Fields crowned so much that the pressure altitude is different from the center circle from the benches, Standing water so deep you lose sight of you shoes, snow so deep you need boots, players without shoes, without shinguards, without matching uniforms, fields with football lines cut shorter then the rest of the grass every five yards, field surrounded by wooden stakes 1 foot tall with string around them to stop people from walking across........all of these things happen on fields everday and you identify them, accept them or we lose about 75% of soccer played in this country because we dont have a "perfect" field. Sure the referee is responsible for the safety of the players, but you have to work with what you are given too. I am not saying there is no limit........I am saying that it isnt as simple as "walk around and then terminate the match".

[nsa]

In Massachusetts all referees at all levels are being told clearly and bluntly, do not start a match if the goals are not anchored.

At a recent clinic for referees that do adult amateur matches the president of Mass State Soccer (also a lawyer) said that the referees needed to refuse to do games on substandard fields to force clubs, towns, and recreation organizations to clean up their act.
MASS ADULT STATE SOCCER - MINIMUM STANDARDS OF SOCCER FIELD SAFETY - OUTDOORS (http://www.mass-soccer.org/safety.htm)
(looks like the doc got truncated)

[Greyhnd00]

Nothing contriversial on the website accept I am not sure how to judge the 25 degree angle of pitch....
We seem to have a lurking lawyer or two so let me ask a physics question and see who comes out of the wood work:
How does a soccer goal that produces very miniscule drag get blown over? Is this physically possible or is it more a componant of an unstable goal in the first place. Every goal I have ever hung nets on took at least two of us hanging on it and trying to tip it over. I guess there must be some really shoddy equipment out there.

[nsa]

Originally posted by Greyhnd00
How does a soccer goal that produces very miniscule drag get blown over?Sometimes it can be due to the slope of the ground or uneven ground compounded by the wind. Other times it can be the harmonic effect of the wind with the netting. We had a net tip over on a girl and break her leg (she and her brothers and sisters continue to play for free in our program ;) ). The coach moved the net to midfield for a short-field scrimmage, but did not bring the sandbags.

I saw a net blow over at a USWNT practice in Worcester a few years ago, barely missing Scurry. Last year I saw two nets blow over and one be blown backwards 25 ft., like a giant sail (that one had my son in net :( ).

Sh!t happens. Be proactive to prevent deep sh!t.

[andylovesoccer]

Originally posted by Greyhnd00
When you get a few games under your belt you will realize while the text on this board is written in black and white, life is not. I cant tell you how many things I have seen on the various leagues I have worked for that were less then perfect with respect to safety. Holes with sprinkler heads on the field. Goal with non-rounded edges. Sprinkler system control panels on the AR sides of the field that broke when I stepped on them. Fields crowned so much that the pressure altitude is different from the center circle from the benches, Standing water so deep you lose sight of you shoes, snow so deep you need boots, players without shoes, without shinguards, without matching uniforms, fields with football lines cut shorter then the rest of the grass every five yards, field surrounded by wooden stakes 1 foot tall with string around them to stop people from walking across........all of these things happen on fields everday and you identify them, accept them or we lose about 75% of soccer played in this country because we dont have a "perfect" field. Sure the referee is responsible for the safety of the players, but you have to work with what you are given too. I am not saying there is no limit........I am saying that it isnt as simple as "walk around and then terminate the match".

I do have several games under my belt. Actually, I have a few years worth of games under my belt. Only problem is that there were several years worth of no games, so I had to recertify and pretty much start over. And way back then (mid to late eighties) the fields and equipment were utter crap.

I am not trying to say that the soccer fields that kids play are on are all free of possible safety hazards. My statements were made in terms of avoiding a lawsuit and the possibility of being sued as a match official.

As for your question regarding the drag coefficient of a soccer goal, I have no idea. I just know that they fall over. It could be wind, it could be gremlins, maybe even a secret al-Qaeda plot to terrorize the soccer moms of America. The officials in charge of training just seem to be putting alot of emphasis on making sure the goals are secured, which inevitably leads them into a field safety lecture. I was glad they put so much emphasis on the topic because I thought the leagues were responsible for the condition of the fields.

[Statesman]

Ask your local referee association if they have non-USSF insurance policies in place for members, or if they have information for a policy that an individual can buy into. Our local association used to purchase insurance to cover the referees that did 2 unaffiliated leagues. They decided to not purchase it in bulk this year due to the low # of referees doing those games vs. # of referees in the association itself (like 12-15 total out of 200). Instead those individual referees can purchase the policy for a year for around $12-15 or so, if not less.

Either way if you do unaffiliated games you should get some form of umbrella policy. It is cheap and lets you work any game you want without fear of something horrible happening and not being covered.