BVB General Discussion 2006/2007 Part I [R]

[footyfan1]

Didn't he say that it would be inadmissible for him to go to HSV because of his friend Thomas Doll - especially if they fire Doll?

I do believe he did, but if Doll gives his blessing, who knows? I am one who doesn't believe BVB management and I believe they already have a deal with von Heesen.

If we don't have a deal with him already and von Heesen does go to HSV, I want JUERGEN KOHLER FUSSBALLGOTT!! as next BVB coach.

[The Old Lady Hertha]

Didn't he say that it would be inadmissible for him to go to HSV because of his friend Thomas Doll - especially if they fire Doll?


I didn't hear any such thing, but then again I haven't really paid much attention to the saga there. I think van Heesen would be a decent coach for both teams.

[jonam]

Keith, I know some people in and around BVB who really like Kohler and would like to see him coach our team. Personally I am not convinced that he is a good coach yet. IMHO he is no one who is right now able to show those punk bitches (aka our players) what to do to get out of this mess.

If I had a free wish, I would make Hitzfeld our new coach. But I know that is NOT realistic. TvH still seems to be a good alternative and I could really live with him being our new man.

[footyfan1]

Keith, I know some people in and around BVB who really like Kohler and would like to see him coach our team. Personally I am not convinced that he is a good coach yet. IMHO he is no one who is right now able to show those punk bitches (aka our players) what to do to get out of this mess.


You know, I can agree with you. However, it isn't Kohler's coaching pedigree I think will help the most.

I think it is his attitude and his link to our "glory days."

One thing BvM could never do is instill the pride of playing for Borussia Dortmund in those players.

I've seen that type of pride turn losses/draws into victories for clubs such as Bayern.

You said on the list that Watzke wants to compete with the best in future.

That will never happen until they get some players who will give whatever it takes to win for the colors they wear and the logo on their shirt.

Watzke could also publicly recognize that the players they brought in just aren't as good as we expected them to be either.......



If I had a free wish, I would make Hitzfeld our new coach. But I know that is NOT realistic. TvH still seems to be a good alternative and I could really live with him being our new man.

We share that wish and I really wish they would just ask. But I don't believe they will.

[footyfan1]

I didn't hear any such thing, but then again I haven't really paid much attention to the saga there. I think van Heesen would be a decent coach for both teams.

I spoke with a friend of mine who is a Bielefeld fan last night. He says that von Heesen did indeed write off any interest of coaching HSV as long as Doll was there and would not go there if their desire to have him was the reason they fired Doll.

I think the way things have gone, both Doll and von Heesen could see their way clear to "bless" von Heesen taking the HSV job.

It's not that I don't want von Heesen in Dortmund, but if his heart is with HSV, then that's where he should go...........

[kingb71]

That I can live with, but not at the expense of having nobody if BVM walks during the Winterpause & us being forced to grab the first warm body & put him on the sideline.

[footyfan1]

That I can live with, but not at the expense of having nobody if BVM walks during the Winterpause & us being forced to grab the first warm body & put him on the sideline.

Even with the rumored problems between BvM and Watzke, I don't think BvM would leave the club in a lurch like that.

And even if he did, I'm certain Juergen Kohler would not have any problem stepping in.

[smithfan]

"Thomas von Heesen is our first choice" - Watzke (Blöd)

"I have informed Arminia's manager Roland Kentsch that we will talk with von Heesen in the next days" - Watzke

"It is our honest ambition to end the season with van Marwijk" - Watzke

[footyfan1]

"Thomas von Heesen is our first choice" - Watzke (Blöd)

"I have informed Arminia's manager Roland Kentsch that we will talk with von Heesen in the next days" - Watzke

That's all well and good, but I wonder what would happen if he gets a call from HSV before any deal is done with BVB??



"It is our honest ambition to end the season with van Marwijk" - Watzke

I believe he means that. At first I thought this would be no good, but what good would another coach who the players know will be gone at the end of the season do????

[david29]

And even if he did, I'm certain Juergen Kohler would not have any problem stepping in.

Has there been any talk of Kohler being involved in any capacity other than as a possible trainer? Because while I think he needs more experience before I'd be comfortable with him having the top job here, I would love to see him involved in some way over the next few years. Assistant coach or something to that effect.

[footyfan1]

Has there been any talk of Kohler being involved in any capacity other than as a possible trainer? Because while I think he needs more experience before I'd be comfortable with him having the top job here, I would love to see him involved in some way over the next few years. Assistant coach or something to that effect.


None. And that's what scares me about this current management team. I worry about Watzke becoming another Niebaum.

All powerful and without a f#cking clue.

[smithfan]

Sportblöd writes: "BVB wants Lincoln" :D

[footyfan1]

Sportblöd writes: "BVB wants Lincoln" :D


Actually, I begged BVB to sign Lincoln before he joined Scheisse after his contract ran out at Kaiserslautern.......

He was available on a free transfer and we have his best friend on the team already!

I'd still want him.

[smithfan]

Actually, I begged BVB to sign Lincoln before he joined Scheisse after his contract ran out at Kaiserslautern.......

He was available on a free transfer and we have his best friend on the team already!

I'd still want him.

come on, he's a diva. The fans would hate him for two reasons:

1. former Scheiße Player
2. If he loses a ball, he won't work his ass of. And the fans hate that.

I can do without such a player. We need creativity, yes - but not at all costs ;)

[footyfan1]

come on, he's a diva. The fans would hate him for two reasons:

1. former Scheiße Player
2. If he loses a ball, he won't work his ass of. And the fans hate that.

I can do without such a player. We need creativity, yes - but not at all costs ;)


"smithfan," don't take this personally. What follows is frustration, nothing against you or your words.

Now. To be honest, I could care less about what "the fans" would hate.

I care about BVB getting back to the top. We've bought the type of players "the fans" like and it hasn't done us any good.

We had "divas" on the team the last time we won anything. And that goes back to the "glory days" of the 90s.

You guys are lucky I don't run BVB. There are a few players I would have bought over the past five or six years who are doing just fine elsewhere that when "the fans" complained, my response would have been, "Talk to me at the end of the season."

Yes, I would have made a few mistakes (As I'm sure "jonam" can't wait to point out....), but overall, most of the players I wanted have shown they would have fit in quite well here.

I think "jonam" also knows that I think a problem with BVB management is that they kiss "the fans'" asses so much, they won't make a controversial move to be successful.

If they win, the fans will come. I know that much.

Oh, and about Lincoln now being a former Scheisse player? So were Jens Lehmann and Steffen Freund. I think they worked out pretty damned well.

In my opinion, "the fans" need to f#cking grow up and let the management do what they need to do to get the players we need in Dortmund to win something.

Even if they are former Scheisse players........

You know, one young player I would LOVE BVB to get their hands on is Michael Delura. I've just about given up that hope now because "jonam" told me he is still out on loan and is still actually contracted to Scheisse until 2008.

If Scheisse are STUPID enough to let a damned good young player like that go, I'm not supposed to want him in Dortmund because he's a former Scheisse player??

Excuse me. That's a part of being a BVB fan I haven't grasped and probably never will. I was one of Jens Lehmann's biggest supporters when he first got on board and when the few f#cking IDIOTS in the Sudtribune were calling him names and throwing shit at him, I was right in there telling them they were f#cking IDIOTS!!

I don't have any problem with a good player joining us even if he once played for Scheisse.

I believe "the fans" need to f#cking get over that shit once a player puts on the BVB shirt. :mad:

OK. Now, all of you tell me how I'm not a "true BVB fan."


I've heard it enough over the years........ :rolleyes:

[smithfan]

nah, I'm not going to condemn you. That wasn't my argumentation anyway (apart from the Diva thing :D), it was just my experience regarding the attitude of the fans. They wouldn't accept Lincoln and that can be pretty hard for a player, but you're right that it could work and in the end no-one cares where he came from IF he performes well.

Still, I don't think at all that Delura would be a good addition. But you know, diverse opinions make this SO interesting ;)

[footyfan1]

nah, I'm not going to condemn you. That wasn't my argumentation anyway (apart from the Diva thing :D), it was just my experience regarding the attitude of the fans.


And if I wasn't clear, I will say again that I care less than a rat's ass about "the attitude of the fans."

A real leader in management would do what he thinks is best for the club whether "the fans" like it or not.

Perfect case in point: Rudi Assauer signing Andy Moeller for Schalke after we let him walk away.

I think if "the fans" truly cared about the club above all else, they would give players a fair chance to prove themselves no matter what club they came from.

These little petty "fan grudges" are for children as far as I'm concerned.

I guess they would hate me too because I once owned a Schalke scarf (schal) Youri Mulder gave to me when I met him in Heidelberg?? :rolleyes:


I will use myself as a case in point as to what I mean here.


I f#cking HATED Fredi Bobic before he joined BVB. But once he put on our shirt, I have to admit, I still did not automatically begin to like him.

However, I kept an open mind about him and he changed my mind with his play.

I think every player we sign should be given that opportunity.



They wouldn't accept Lincoln and that can be pretty hard for a player, but you're right that it could work and in the end no-one cares where he came from IF he performes well.


That's what wound up happening with Lehmann. That and when a few of the Sudtribune IDIOTS went too far, the rest of the fans finally got behind Lehmann.




Still, I don't think at all that Delura would be a good addition. But you know, diverse opinions make this SO interesting ;)


I'd be very interested to know why you don't think Delura would not be a good addition.

[footyfan1]

Copied from the Matchday 17 thread:

"Gunning4Chelsea" asked if there's any truth to some rumore that BVB are going to push Smolarek out of the door with BvM and that HSV are just waiting to sign Smolarek.

My response follows:



According to Michael Zorc it isn't true. Zorc wonders where the rumors are coming from. But I guess no one told him that Smolarek is "concerned" for his spot because:

1) The man who brought him to Dortmund has been sacked.

2) BVB are openly seeking another starting-caliber striker.

3) Watzke seems to not "like" anything associated with BvM these days....


I think those concerns are warranted. However, I think BVB management, as f#cking usual, are barking up the wrong tree.

We should definitely get a new striker, but not with an eye on him replacing Smolarek. I think we need a guy who won't mind coming off the bench late in matches. One who isn't a f#cking midget like the rest and has a bit of Bundesliga or 2. Bundesliga experience.

I'm thinking of a replacment for Amoah, not Smolarek or Valdez. That and just getting at least one "bigger" striker on the roster.

Frei is our tallest strker and he's only 5' 9" for crying out loud!

However, in my opinion, BVB's first priorities during this winter break should be:

1) Find a new coach: Keeping BvM on isn't going to do any good. The team doesn't seem to be responding to thim. And if the team says they do want to play for BvM, remind them that their sorry asses are the ones who got him fired. If we are indeed waiting for Thomas von Heesen, try to hire Juergen Kohler or Horst Koeppel as interim coach until the end of the season. Bring Uwe Neuhaus back as interim co-trainer. Of course, that's if these guys want to be interim trainers.

2) Solve the offensive midfield problem: This cannot wait until the end of the season. This is a problem I think needs to be solved IMMEDIATELY. I would not get off the phone until I have a new creative offensive midfielder in Dortmund. If one cannot be found, decide to go with Sahin or Pienaar and live or die with the choice.

3) Find more striker help. As I mentioned above, more for off the bench than trying to replace Smolarek or Valdez. However, the guy should be able to start if the new coach finally gives Valdez that place on the bench he so richly deserves at the moment. I love the way he works his ass off for the team, but somewhere along the line, he needs to score goals. We didn't pay 4.5M Euros for a guy to just run around like a madman. We paid for goals.

As you see, I've said nothing about the Leverkusen match itself. With the way this team is playing, I expect the fans at the Westfalenstadion to seriously show the players how downright DISGUSTED they are with the player's "performances" of late.

If management doesn't take care of business during the winterbreak, I predict the second half of the season will long, ugly and painful for us BVB supporters.........

[footyfan1]

Yesterday, "jonam" speculated on our e-mail list that BvM would be sacked before Christmas.

Today's "kicker" picked up on that specualation. Even the fan association has turned on BvM, citing his "arrogance" and "lack of respect" of the players.

What do I have to say to that? They might be right, but "F#ck them". With the fan groups up there who do know me, seemingly, I'm not a popular guy anymore. I used to care about that, but since an incident in Nuernberg earlier this season, my attitude is "F#ck them!"

They are fans just like I am.


BvM took over this club when the club was at it's lowest point. He took what was next to nothing and made something of it.

As far as I'm concerned, the players are spoiled bitches who can't take it when someone tries to push them in order to get them to the next level.

If they think BvM is a hard-ass, wait until they get a load of Thomas von Heesen. From what I understand, von Heesen is an authoritarian taskmaster along the lines of Felix Magath.

Funny, as I remember, Felix was run out of Bremen for the same reasons. He was "arrogant" and treated the players "without respect."

What did Felix do after that? He only took a Stuttgart club on the brink of bankruptcy and using mostly players from their amateur team and a loan from Bayern named Phillip Lahm and turned them into championship contenders.

Oh yeah, and the double at Bayern two years in a row.

Yeah, Bremen won a title since, but they did it with a mostly new team too. They will probably win one this year too. Mostly thanks to Frings, Diego and Klose. Three players who were not there the last time they won.

I think Schaaf is a hell of a coach, but the years he didn't have a star or two, he didn't win. Klaus Allofs is the star of that show in Bremen as far as I am concerned.

Back to Dortmund.

I do agree that BvM needs to go, but I'm telling you, we need to hold management and the players just as accountable as we're holding BvM.

He didn't make this mess by himself.

Below I will past the comment "jonam" made on the e-mail list and my reply to it.

Hope you will read and respond.



From all the rumours and facts I've heard it seems likely to me that BvM will be sacked before christmas. At all I am pretty sure that it will happen this way.


Response from footyfan1:



I hope it happens that way. Not because of any ill feelings or ill will toward BvM, but because I think this club needs to turn the page as soon as possible.

I get the feeling that if Bielefeld's Thomas von Heesen (TvH) is to be our next coach, Bielefeld will release him during the winter break and get a guy who will be there after this season. Even if we don't have TvH coming in, I'd still try to hire someone like Kohler (More his presence than coaching ability) or Horst Koeppel until the end of the season.

Now, I need to vent about something else that I discussed with KC privately earlier.

I'm still not convinced that we have a management team who knows what it is doing on the FOOTBALL side of the house.

KC said something to the effect that Watzke was the right man at the right time to get us out of the financial mess, but he doesn't know that Watzke should be so involved in football operations.

I completely agree with that. I used to complain day and night about there being no "football men" in BVB management.

I think that is still a problem. Not just with Watzke not being a "football man", but I have very little confidence in Zorc's ability as a General Manager. We need someone who has an attitude more like Uli Hoeness.

KC said his view of Zorc is that he is a straight, honest individual, while most great football managers are slimy bastards.

I agree with him there again. And if I were German, I'd nominate myself for the job!

I'm not a complete slimy bastard, but I'd do the DIRTY WORK necessary to put this club back on top.

DIRTY WORK that Michael Zorc doesn't seem to have the balls to do.

Actually, back before we fired him as coach, I'd proposed "promoting" Matthias Sammer to Zorc's job instead of "firing" Sammer and moving Zorc "further up" to oversee the new training center and any youth academy we might build.

I thought Sammer would have been perfect for that job. However, with Sammer in love with his position at the DFB, I don't see him coming back. Reuter has the same position at 1860 and is doing wonderfully with very little to work with besides an abundance of young talent. I don't think Reuter would come back either though.

I would think of two names. Kohler and Moeller. Bump Zorc "up" and let's get another "1997 Legacy Guy" back at BVB.

That's something that's always helped sustain Bayern. They kept the important figures of their glory days somehow involved in the club. Even if it was by long distance, they did so.

And they are still doing so. They are keeping Scholl involved after he retires and Kahn is the heir apparent to Uli Hoeness.

I think it is a complete mistake that BVB has not done something similar........


Now, with all this bitching about managment, I am not saying BvM is innocent in all of this. I can fully believe that the major reason Steven Pienaar is in Dortmund is because BvM wanted him.

But remember, BvM also found us a guy like Ebi Smolarek for nothing when the club had no money to spend and we needed a striker badly. Amoah has been useless so far, but again, when we needed a body for next to nothing, BvM came through.

It is also obvious that BvM is not reaching the team. I'm not totally convinced that a complete hard-ass like TvH will reach this bunch of pu$$ies we call a team either.

There are changes that need to be made on this team during the winter break. Top priority should be solving the offensive midfield problem. That will not be easy, but I will not be happy unless I know management explored every avenue realistically possible to solve that problem.

I am also still under the impression that we need a "big" striker to come off the bench.

Yes, I'm going to keep begging them to get 1860's Nicky Adler. I know they won't read any of my e-mails and faxes and Adler might not be quite ready for the 1. Liga, but he's one of the top strikers in the 2. Liga and can't be any f#cking worse than Amoah.

Adler has 1860 "over a barrel" too. Somehow, this kid has been allowed to reach the mid-point of his final contract year. In January, he can sign with anyone else on a free transfer for next season.

However, I would not want him that way. I'd like us to pay 1860 to get this kid during the winter break. Or at least give them Amoah, Senesie or Saka as partial exchange. I'm sure Amoah can score in the 2. Liga and Reuter should know Senesie and Saka and what they could bring to 1860.

However, I don't think 1860 has anything to fear from BVB. BVB doesn't seem to know how to make good mid-season moves unless BvM pulls the trigger (Smolarek).



Also. Am I the only one who believes BVB managment intentionally over-hypes the actual talent level of our up and coming young players to keep the fans excited??

I mean, from all the talk about Sahin, you would have thought he was practically the second coming of Maradona. I'm not saying that Sahin sucks. No way. I know he still has developing to do, but I also see that he's not as good as BVB management made him out to be.

Same thing with Sebastian Tyrala. I think he's going to be good, but I also think his future in football is going to be as an attacking midfielder of some type.

He's too f#ckng small to be a striker of any consequence in any major European league.

Don't even get me started on that fatheaded, f#cking waste of space Markus Brzenska.

He's good to give the opponents three good shots at goal per match. Hell, against Schalke, one could easily blame his f#cking sorry ass for the first two Schalke goals!!!

And seeing that the hype surrounding these three is severely over-inflated, at least in my opinion, it makes me wonder who else's expectations they've over-inflated.

Maybe Vrzogic?

What I find the funniest is that the young player they hyped the least, seems to be the best of the lot so far.

That's Martin Amedick.

So, in closing, with the problems we have, I fully understand why BvM has to go and he has to go now. I still support BvM, but reality is reality and he has to suffer the consequences.

However, I think you all should take a closer look at management and question the job they are doing.

Just as BvM is being held accountable for his failures, I think management needs to be held accountable for their failures too........

[footyfan1]

There's another name in the BVB coaching rumor mill.......

Huub Stevens

Great coach, but I guess the fans wouldn't "accept" him because he's a former Schalke coach.

Again, here's where I'd tell "the fans" to get over it........


Eurosport.com - Stevens Smooths Way For Return (http://www.eurosport.com/football/bundesliga/2006-2007/sport_sto1032882.shtml)