Lip Reading Analysis Thread [Archive]

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Zaius

12 Jul 2006, 04:16 PM

First: Please do not discuss anything but the actual words you think Materazzi said. Don't talk about who you think was right/wrong, if it was justified etc... Let's just try to figure out what he said. This is not to discredit Zidane or Materazzi, just for those interested in what Materazzi said.

Ok here's the best clip you can use to analyze it:

http://rapidshare.de/files/25416761/Zidane_Materazzi.wmv.html

I recommend you watch it on mute so you aren't bothered by other sounds. Also recommend you play it slowly (In Windows Media player: Play->Play Speed->Slow)

There have been many claims about what has been said from various sources in the media. Please put all those aside and clear your head from that. Let's try to work what was actually said. You can either use Italian or phonetics.

Please only link to other sources or paste information regarding this if it actually has a word by word explanation.

Here's what I see:

First thing Materazzi says could be a "no" but I don't think so. His mouth is too wide open for an "o" sound. Maybe he said more of a "nah", but I don't see the tongue to palate connection for the initial consonant.

One thing I have noticed is that he repeats the same phrase back to back at one point. From the moment he tilts his head to the left (around 0:05) he says:

*This is from the moment Materazzi tilts his head to the left*

"pootah _______ _______", (4 syllables total including pootah, the last 2 syllables go from narrow mouth to wide mouth)
"p______ ________", (2 syllables total)
"pootah _______ _______" (4 syllables total including pootah, the last 2 syllables go from narrow mouth to wide mouth, same as first)
"hey"
*Zidane turns around*
"___ ___ culo"

I actually don't think the last thing he says is "va fanculo" because the tooth to bottom lip connection for the v is completely non existant for his first consonant. I know someone people can gloss over it, but his first consonant is almost opposite of a 'v'. Can any Italians think of what 3-4 syllable phrase can also end in "culo" ?

Anyhow, here's my initial take on fragments of this. I would appreciate others trying to crack it. Please at least do some justification of why you think he said what he said from his mouth movement, don't just say "I think he said this" and end it there.

divinocodino1018

12 Jul 2006, 04:17 PM

Without a doubt, the last 2 words that come out of Materazzi's mouth are "Va fanculo" (f*ck off).

This link should help you out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2slJ9CBnk0&feature=Views&page=1&t=t&f=b

Zaius

12 Jul 2006, 04:18 PM

I keep looking at the last thing he says over and over and I completely agree with you that his last word is "culo". However please look at the end over and over yourself. I do not see the "va" syllable anywhere in there. I also do not see the bottom teeth to top lip connection (or anything close to it) for the 'f' sound of "fan".

The link you linked me to is a worse version of the original link in my post. Youtube.com reduces the resolution of videos. Please use my original link to analyze this, not youtube - too blurry.

lebleu

12 Jul 2006, 05:35 PM

apparently mattarazi pulled on his jersey. zidane told matarazi that if he really wants the jersey he would give it to him after the game. then matarazzi called zidanes sister a LADY OF THE NIGHT or a whore....then zidane did....
.
.
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http://www.purewinners.com/zidane.gif

pippomo

12 Jul 2006, 05:37 PM

I will help you. There is a bastardo ( bastard ) and a vaffanculo ( ******** you ). These are the only I could read.
Bastardo is at the beginning of the trash talk. Vaffanculo the last word.

lebleu

12 Jul 2006, 05:42 PM

Zaius

12 Jul 2006, 05:53 PM

bbc analysis http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhmN_cOnbmk&mode=related&search=

I know, I watched the video and read the multiple articles on the matter. I would really appreciate it if BBC did more than just say "this is what he said". There's little justification in that video for their claims. They don't zoom in on the mouth and try to show us the phonetics of their claims. They just doesn't try to sell it to us. Also it seems they showed their lip reader the wrong video. They showed him the side video which is almost impossible to use to lip read.

I will help you. There is a bastardo ( bastard ) and a vaffanculo ( ******** you ). These are the only I could read.
Bastardo is at the beginning of the trash talk. Vaffanculo the last word.

Thanks. Could you show me exactly where you see "bastardo" in the video I linked to in my original post? I just don't see it anywhere on his lips, especially not at the beginning.

pippomo

12 Jul 2006, 05:57 PM

pippomo

12 Jul 2006, 06:01 PM

It's difficult... the last sentence coul also be "le spacco il culo" ( to his sister... something like: I destroy her ass... )

Zaius

12 Jul 2006, 06:02 PM

Anyway for the terrorist thing. Terrorista is four syllabe ( ter-ro-ri-sta )i Can't see them anywhere here. The last thing is not "Vaffanculo" but "Vai a fare in culo" which is the "correct form" ( Vaffanculo is a Va(i) (a) fa(re) (in) culo... the litteral translation of this phrase is not a simple "******** you" is somethin like: go to put it in someone's ass where as "vallo a prendere nel culo" is: go to take it in your ass ).
Noww I'm feeling ridicolous...

Ya I don't see terrorist anywhere either. At the end, I don't see the 'v' for "vai a fare in culo", though. Look at the moment from when Zidane turns around. Materazzi makes absolutely no 'v' sound. Can you think of any other insults in Italian that end in "culo"?

edit: That last one seems more likely. Though I don't see the 'L' either. Although "spacco" could be there.

divinocodino1018

12 Jul 2006, 06:05 PM

Yeah, same here. I don't see how the Italian word for terrorist is used by Materazzi. I retract my statement from before about the last 2 words being "Va fanculo." "Culo" is used though but I'm having a hard time seeing what he says. I think it's one phrase but then I watch it again and ponder more options.

Heinz

12 Jul 2006, 06:05 PM

Zaius

12 Jul 2006, 06:08 PM

Does anyone know what did Zidane say?? Materazzi's dad said that his son was provoked by Zidane, and iirc, Zidane seemed to talk something too...

ZIdane insulted Materazzi or Buffon??
Materazzi insulted him back
ZIdane got angry and headbutt him

It's very hard to see what Zidane says. But it is obviously relating to his jersey. BTW I disagree with BBC's claim that Materazzi pinched his nipple. Because:

1) From the angle they look at, his hand does seem near the nipple, but once seen from the better front angle, it looks way too low for it. Also, you can see Materazzi pulls hard on the jersey. If he had pulled that hard on the jersey and nipple, we would seen a lot of pain from Zidane.

2) Zidane obviously makes a reference to his jersey rather than to his body when complaining to Materazzi after the shirt pull.

But back to the words. Could any italian speaker look at the obvious "pootah ____ _____" phrase that is actually said twice? What do you think he says after pootah?

pippomo

12 Jul 2006, 06:12 PM

In italian there is no pu-ta. It is put-ta-na. three syllabes.

Zaius

12 Jul 2006, 06:16 PM

In italian there is no pu-ta. It is put-ta-na. three syllabes.

Ya, I thought so too. But the fact that the syllable after "pootah" does not look like a "na" but like a "f" or "th" sound threw me off. He definitely doesn't say "pootahna" though.

Phonetically I see "pootahschwaff". Obviously this isn't an Italian word. Can you think of something that sounds like it?

pippomo

12 Jul 2006, 06:22 PM

Does anyone know what did Zidane say?? Materazzi's dad said that his son was provoked by Zidane, and iirc, Zidane seemed to talk something too...

ZIdane insulted Materazzi or Buffon??
Materazzi insulted him back
ZIdane got angry and headbutt him
I think that Zidane said what Materazzi already said he did.
He asked him if he wanted his jersey. ButI think in a particular way that coul be a little provocation...
In Italian You can say: "Voui la mia maglietta?" And it would be a normal proposal.
But you can also "Ti piacerebbe avere la mia maglietta..." You'd like to ahve my jersey... Wouldn't you...
Implying: I'm not going to give my jersey to a guy like you, you don't deserve it.
Hence the anwer of Materazzi which is probable, also if i'm not supported by any lip reading by me, it could be: "No quella la prendo a tua sorella" ( I'll take that from your sister" )
The two last sentence could also be: "Sì quella puttana di tua sorella. Ei Le spacco il culo" :D

pippomo

12 Jul 2006, 06:29 PM

put-ta-naz-za?
ihihihi I can't see it anywhere... So it would be four syllabes. Meaning "Great Bitch".
I'm afraid I don't see any "madre" ( mother )... but it is so short that it could be anywhere in the first part. Not in the last two.

pippomo

12 Jul 2006, 06:40 PM

I'll become a great lip-reader!!!

Zaius

12 Jul 2006, 06:46 PM

Hmm, I just don't see an "n" syllable after pootah. I wish I knew Italian, this would be so much easier.

Fair Play

12 Jul 2006, 07:14 PM

As a proficient “amateur” lipreader (in English language only) due to my hearing impairment, I find it mind-boggling that no one would suggest using a lipreader whose fluent in Italian. Hiring a “professional” lipreader along with an Italian translator will certainly not able to decipher the whole conversation by crossing the “t” and dotting the “i” – creating gaps in between words and/or phrases, without a doubt, will lead to misunderstanding (i.e., “I do not know what [it] means” would imply “I did not say that” – as noted in Italian speakers) and ignorant (e.g., he said; she said).