Who Will Replace Riquelme????

[Castroman]

I had to think twice about asking this question but the last couple of games in the WC we`ve always seen riquelme walk out of the field or being subed tired before the 90 mins mark! so my question is who will be our next playmaker???

Aimar
D'Allesandro
Maxi Moralez
Messi
Barrientos
Montillo
Gracian
Cardozo
Archubi
Ocampo
Lucho

[Leon12]

Messi is definately someone who in time I can see playing in that role, he has the ability to do it, but that probably won't be for a few years yet.

What about Gago, I've seen clips of him and seen him play for Boca a few times (via the internet), at the moment he seems to play more as a holding defensive midfield player, but do you reckon he could become a playmaker?

[Pekerman]

Riquelme was not a #10 to begin with. Messi is the only player capable of wearing that shirt. Moralez still has a LONG way to go to be even mentionned here. So do most of the names you listed. I do not think that Lucho is creative enough to play in that role.

That is why I am anxious to find out who the next coach is. Pekerman is likely to keep Riquelme near the national team for at least few more years but I highly doubt that another coach would have Riquelme in his plans at all.

[Leon12]

In my opinion the team for 2010 should be built round Utsari, Gonzalo, Mascherano, Messi and Aguero.

Messi should be given the number 10 shirt.

[Castroman]

In my opinion the team for 2010 should be built round Utsari, Gonzalo, Mascherano, Messi and Aguero.

Messi should be given the number 10 shirt.

@@ if gago is not a starter on our national team then im not watching the games no more! are u kidding me have u seen gago omg u should see him bro the guy is a killer! if u pass the midfield ur lucky! loool he's that good im serious he's exactly like redondo im not making anything up! and he's harsh not pretty nice and the good thing about him is that he's fast! u should see him but even if messi is our num 10 who do u guys think would be his back up? or deserves to be a back up?

[Jamooky]

Gago is good, very good. But he's not yet better than Mascherano, so Gago is more or less gonna be the replacement for Cambiasso

as far as who replaces Roman ... nobody (yet) sorry, but thats the truth

[Pekerman]

Gago is a complete player and should be a fixed starter for 2010. He has many of Redondo's attributes and has the potential to even surpass him in some areas. In all honesty I believe that Gago would have done a better job than Cambiasso in this World Cup.

[Pekerman]

Gago is good, very good. But he's not yet better than Mascherano, so Gago is more or less gonna be the replacement for Cambiasso

as far as who replaces Roman ... nobody (yet) sorry, but thats the truth

1/ Gago is not a defensive midfielder so the comparison with Mascherano is baseless.

2/ Messi is already a better player than Riquelme.

[ilovefotball]

2/ Messi is already a better player than Riquelme.

:eek: . Messi is a good player and is destined for big things but to say He is already better than Riquelme is to exaggerate.

to the question, who replace Riquelme? i don't see any candidates at the moment but if i have to choose then it will be Aimar, and i want to wait few months before answering about D'Allessandro.

BTW, Leon, why you don't write the name of Tevez while we talk about building our team around for 2010. it makes me mad.:p

[Moishe]

Gago is a box to box midfielder more of a tweener than a pure d-mid or attacker. Infact his similarities to Redondo are no accident. Gago refers to Redondo as his favorite player ever and is freaked out by the people that compare them. I read this in an article in World Soccer from within the past year. The only knock I've heard about Gago so far is that he doesn't pick his head up soon enough after taking possesion of the ball. Definitely a youth thing, but with that said, I'd take him over Cambiasso right here and now.

As for who takes over for Riquelme as enganche? I still see Roman leading the attack for at least two more years. I know some of you are gasping for air at this moment ready to hit reply but let's point out some things. First, Messi is no doubt the future of Futbol Argentino so I'll get that out of the way. Two, Messi does have the pace over Riquelme which cannot be argued so no one should try. Three, does Messi have the on field vision that Roman does? Sorry to say it but no he does not and as to whether he will, that's to be seen. Messi is pure excitement and a joy to watch. To try and compare Messi and Roman as playmakers is a pretty futile argument. Roman is without a doubt one of the best pure passers in the game, a fact which seriously cant be argued. Roman on set pieces is almost peerless in the entire game. When all is said and done, Messi will probably pass Riquelme on the list of Argentine greats because of his individual flair but not his brain. Sorry had to say that but many of you all of a sudden forgot just how good Roman is. As much as some are hating on him at this moment, their are still plenty of teams that would die to have him.

So after that long winded diatribe, the heir apparent to true playmaker will be Andres D'allesandro. I give him a slight edge over Aimar because of long term fitness. Andres is a great passer, holds the ball well, gets teammates involved and has a knack for the dramatic. Wolfsburg was a fluke and the first coach he played under didn't know how to use him. Move him to England with a coach that believes in him and gives him freedom and all of a sudden results. Imho during his short time with Pompey, he defined himself as their most dangerous player. Bold statement but one I believe. With his moving to LaLiga, he should come out in a big way.

I define playmaker in two ways, one is the guy that creates and gets others involved regularly and the second which is the guy that is a one man highlight video. Roman is the first and Messi is the second. Messi could develope into the first time with age. Roman on the other hand is not likely to start running at defenders again anytime soon. There you have it, shred it argue it, let's have some fun.

[Jamooky]

1/ Gago is not a defensive midfielder so the comparison with Mascherano is baseless.

2/ Messi is already a better player than Riquelme.


Gago played the past 2 sessions in Boca's midfield behind Insua, similarly to how Mascherano played between Riquelme and the center backs in the WC

as far as I can tell, after watching Gago the past year, is that he would be more likely to replace Mascherano than Roman. Gago has not played the creative attacking midfielder role (or atleast I haven't seen him do it). So I'm not sure how "baseless" I am :rolleyes:

Gago is good though, very very good. But he plays a different position than Roman.

[Castroman]

i would put D'Alessandro and Messi together since D'Alessandro has some good long passes and Messi can play behind the forwards!

[Stogey23]

Riquelme was not a #10 to begin with. Messi is the only player capable of wearing that shirt.
If Riquelme is not a #10, then who is? He seems more like the quintessential #10 than anyone else in int'l soccer that I can think of right now.

[Pekerman]

Gago is a box to box midfielder more of a tweener than a pure d-mid or attacker. Infact his similarities to Redondo are no accident. Gago refers to Redondo as his favorite player ever and is freaked out by the people that compare them. I read this in an article in World Soccer from within the past year. The only knock I've heard about Gago so far is that he doesn't pick his head up soon enough after taking possesion of the ball. Definitely a youth thing, but with that said, I'd take him over Cambiasso right here and now.

As for who takes over for Riquelme as enganche? I still see Roman leading the attack for at least two more years. I know some of you are gasping for air at this moment ready to hit reply but let's point out some things. First, Messi is no doubt the future of Futbol Argentino so I'll get that out of the way. Two, Messi does have the pace over Riquelme which cannot be argued so no one should try. Three, does Messi have the on field vision that Roman does? Sorry to say it but no he does not and as to whether he will, that's to be seen. Messi is pure excitement and a joy to watch. To try and compare Messi and Roman as playmakers is a pretty futile argument. Roman is without a doubt one of the best pure passers in the game, a fact which seriously cant be argued. Roman on set pieces is almost peerless in the entire game. When all is said and done, Messi will probably pass Riquelme on the list of Argentine greats because of his individual flair but not his brain. Sorry had to say that but many of you all of a sudden forgot just how good Roman is. As much as some are hating on him at this moment, their are still plenty of teams that would die to have him.

So after that long winded diatribe, the heir apparent to true playmaker will be Andres D'allesandro. I give him a slight edge over Aimar because of long term fitness. Andres is a great passer, holds the ball well, gets teammates involved and has a knack for the dramatic. Wolfsburg was a fluke and the first coach he played under didn't know how to use him. Move him to England with a coach that believes in him and gives him freedom and all of a sudden results. Imho during his short time with Pompey, he defined himself as their most dangerous player. Bold statement but one I believe. With his moving to LaLiga, he should come out in a big way.

I define playmaker in two ways, one is the guy that creates and gets others involved regularly and the second which is the guy that is a one man highlight video. Roman is the first and Messi is the second. Messi could develope into the first time with age. Roman on the other hand is not likely to start running at defenders again anytime soon. There you have it, shred it argue it, let's have some fun.


Good point about Gago. He is in no way a purely defensive midfielder like Mascherano. The closest player he could be compared to on the national team would be Cambiasso but it would not be an accurate comparison either. You could say that he is a multifunctional player. I have never said he would replace Riquelme but he should be part of our midfield in the near future.

Some of you need to reminded of the talent of Messi. :rolleyes: You do not think that Messi has the "brain" to be an enganche? Sorry but I have to disagree. I believe that he reads the game very well and he demonstrated his vision with a couple of clinical passes last season with Barca. Not to mention his 2 through passes against Holland, similar to the one that Riquelme did against the Ivory Coast.

Riquelme is obviously still superior in this departement but unfortunately he did not show any trait of being an enganche in this world cup. We truly lacked a link between the midfield and the attack. A true Enganche would be Maradona. And Roman is very far from that in term of pace, ability and dribbling. How much of a #10 can you be if you could not even manage to take one shot on goal ? :o I can definetly argue that Messi would have done a much better offensive job in that position. Some say that Pekerman pushed Riquelme to play in the center of the midfield but I do not believe that because Jose always stated that he want him to have a free roaming role. I think that he was FORCED to fall back to that position because he could not take any one-on-one challenge. In contrast with a true enganche :rolleyes:. Why was Messi viewed as a forward by Pekerman is beyond me. It is so obvious that he should be played in the midfield.

An intersting question just popped in my head after reading your post: who would be our next set-piece taker ?

As much as I condemned Riquelme for his performances I admit that he is one the best dead ball kicker in the world. Do we have any other player who takes free-kicks and corner kicks regularly for his club ? I imagine that Messi, Tevez and Aguero are the candidate but they are not the specialists at their respective clubs.

[Castroman]

Good point about Gago. He is in no way a purely defensive midfielder like Mascherano. The closest player he could be compared to on the national team would be Cambiasso but it would not be an accurate comparison either. You could say that he is a multifunctional player. I have never said he would replace Riquelme but he should be part of our midfield in the near future.

Some of you need to reminded of the talent of Messi. :rolleyes: You do not think that Messi has the "brain" to be an enganche? Sorry but I have to disagree. I believe that he reads the game very well and he demonstrated his vision with a couple of clinical passes last season with Barca. Not to mention his 2 through passes against Holland, similar to the one that Riquelme did against the Ivory Coast.

Riquelme is obviously still superior in this departement but unfortunately he did not show any trait of being an enganche in this world cup. We truly lacked a link between the midfield and the attack. A true Enganche would be Maradona. And Roman is very far from that in term of pace, ability and dribbling. How much of a #10 can you be if you could not even manage to take one shot on goal ? :o I can definetly argue that Messi would have done a much better offensive job in that position. Some say that Pekerman pushed Riquelme to play in the center of the midfield but I do not believe that because Jose always stated that he want him to have a free roaming role. I think that he was FORCED to fall back to that position because he could not take any one-on-one challenge. In contrast with a true enganche :rolleyes:. Why was Messi viewed as a forward by Pekerman is beyond me. It is so obvious that he should be played in the midfield.

An intersting question just popped in my head after reading your post: who would be our next set-piece taker ?

As much as I condemned Riquelme for his performances I admit that he is one the best dead ball kicker in the world. Do we have any other player who takes free-kicks and corner kicks regularly for his club ? I imagine that Messi, Tevez and Aguero are the candidate but they are not the specialists at their respective clubs.


speaking of dead ball my question is is there anyone better than Mauro Rosales? i dont think so even when riquelme's on the team rosales always took the free kicks! the guy is just good!!

[metrocorazon]

Riquelme is obviously still superior in this departement but unfortunately he did not show any trait of being an enganche in this world cup. We truly lacked a link between the midfield and the attack. A true Enganche would be Maradona. And Roman is very far from that in term of pace, ability and dribbling. How much of a #10 can you be if you could not even manage to take one shot on goal ? :o I can definetly argue that Messi would have done a much better offensive job in that position. Some say that Pekerman pushed Riquelme to play in the center of the midfield but I do not believe that because Jose always stated that he want him to have a free roaming role. I think that he was FORCED to fall back to that position because he could not take any one-on-one challenge. In contrast with a true enganche :rolleyes:. Why was Messi viewed as a forward by Pekerman is beyond me. It is so obvious that he should be played in the midfield.


I hesitate to critizise Riquelme too much. Yes he didnt live up to the hype and played average at best, but so did every other "enganche" in the World Cup, except Zidane. Why? I dont know, but I dont think its a coincidence. Thats why I am not too critical of Roman. I've seen him do some amazing things very few people in the world can do, let alone in Argentina. When he is on there is no better #10 for Argentina.

Messi has the tools but he is still young he needs to mature before he can take over a team. Which is better for him because it takes the pressure of him being so young and he can focus on just playing off the #10 and gaining experience. I think the next World Cup will be a "passing of the torch" for him where whoever is wearing the #10 kinda REALLY prepares him to take over for the next couple of cups.

Gago has always played the "#5" role at Boca, so he's not really a #10. He does have qualities that allow him to move forward and support or even lead an attack but that is really his secondary role. And it is also the reason why you see him do amazing things. People dont expect or get caught off guard when a #5 like him goes up so there is an element of surprise in his attacks. However I dont think he will be as good was he to be the focus of the offense of a team.

THe problem one needs to look at also is that more and more teams are less focused on 1 player. With so many teams adopting the 4-5-1 many teams have these midfielders that can drive the ball in all on their own rather than pass the ball to the man up top. Case in point, Messi, Aguero, Ribery, Fabregas, Cristiano ROnaldo, etc. THe #10 is not as important anymore as is a collection of guys who can run up and down and take the ball in themselves rather than be an engine of a team.

[Pekerman]

THe problem one needs to look at also is that more and more teams are less focused on 1 player. With so many teams adopting the 4-5-1 many teams have these midfielders that can drive the ball in all on their own rather than pass the ball to the man up top. Case in point, Messi, Aguero, Ribery, Fabregas, Cristiano ROnaldo, etc. THe #10 is not as important anymore as is a collection of guys who can run up and down and take the ball in themselves rather than be an engine of a team.

Excellent point. But Argentina should always play with a #10 and that is my opinion.

I have never said that Gago should replace Riquelme. I just said that he should have a place in the midfield, probably instead of Cambiasso. I still do not view him as a 5 like Mascherano.

[Moishe]

If Riquelme is not a #10, then who is? He seems more like the quintessential #10 than anyone else in int'l soccer that I can think of right now.

Riquelme to some in the Argentine boards has be a total bummer in the World Cup. I admit he played nowhere what we hoped but whenever he comes off we lose. That stat don't lie.

[Moishe]

Good point about Gago. He is in no way a purely defensive midfielder like Mascherano. The closest player he could be compared to on the national team would be Cambiasso but it would not be an accurate comparison either. You could say that he is a multifunctional player. I have never said he would replace Riquelme but he should be part of our midfield in the near future.

Some of you need to reminded of the talent of Messi. :rolleyes: You do not think that Messi has the "brain" to be an enganche? Sorry but I have to disagree. I believe that he reads the game very well and he demonstrated his vision with a couple of clinical passes last season with Barca. Not to mention his 2 through passes against Holland, similar to the one that Riquelme did against the Ivory Coast.

Riquelme is obviously still superior in this departement but unfortunately he did not show any trait of being an enganche in this world cup. We truly lacked a link between the midfield and the attack. A true Enganche would be Maradona. And Roman is very far from that in term of pace, ability and dribbling. How much of a #10 can you be if you could not even manage to take one shot on goal ? :o I can definetly argue that Messi would have done a much better offensive job in that position. Some say that Pekerman pushed Riquelme to play in the center of the midfield but I do not believe that because Jose always stated that he want him to have a free roaming role. I think that he was FORCED to fall back to that position because he could not take any one-on-one challenge. In contrast with a true enganche :rolleyes:. Why was Messi viewed as a forward by Pekerman is beyond me. It is so obvious that he should be played in the midfield.

An intersting question just popped in my head after reading your post: who would be our next set-piece taker ?

As much as I condemned Riquelme for his performances I admit that he is one the best dead ball kicker in the world. Do we have any other player who takes free-kicks and corner kicks regularly for his club ? I imagine that Messi, Tevez and Aguero are the candidate but they are not the specialists at their respective clubs.


Only a fool or an uneducated fan would think a player like Gago could take over the enganche role. It's just not him.

Not at all do I need reminding of Messi's talents, we all know what we've seen. What I said was currently Messi does not have the total vision of the pitch the way Roman does. The fact is not many #10's in the world see the game in the manner Riquelme does. He will with maturity and experience certaintly become a very smart player but don't lose sight that he still is a kid. Besides, Roman's futbol brain is amongst the best of the last 20 years. Deny it all you want, but with him it's never really been about running at blokes, it's been about lethal passing over and over and over again. One quick move, a bit of space and bam the perfect through ball. Why Maradona ever came up in your post is absurd. No Roman will never be Diego but neither will Messi and to pin those expectations on the kid is bullshit. Look at how many of our players were doomed from that same expectation.

Point of contention in regards to your Roman not taking a shot on goal. Nine shots, three on goal. Factor in the four assists, the set up passes leading to the other seven goals and oh yeah, the better than 85% pass completed ratio. He had more touches than the majority of players in this tournament, constantly defended/hacked by two players at the very least and then forced to drop back to midfield to get service. What the hell more do you want from the guy. Seriously, how many "big name" midfielders in this cup can you name that outplayed him. I'll throw Zizou out there not come up with some legitimate names. Lampard? Gerrard? Ballack?

As to who replaces Roman with the set pieces. The only name that really comes straight on are, Tevez and D'allesandro. They, mainly Tevez took most of the set pieces in the Olympics. Rosales I just don't remember too much about. We've still got time, for all we know it'll end up being Insua:eek:

[Pekerman]

Only a fool or an uneducated fan would think a player like Gago could take over the enganche role. It's just not him.

Not at all do I need reminding of Messi's talents, we all know what we've seen. What I said was currently Messi does not have the total vision of the pitch the way Roman does. The fact is not many #10's in the world see the game in the manner Riquelme does. He will with maturity and experience certaintly become a very smart player but don't lose sight that he still is a kid. Besides, Roman's futbol brain is amongst the best of the last 20 years. Deny it all you want, but with him it's never really been about running at blokes, it's been about lethal passing over and over and over again. One quick move, a bit of space and bam the perfect through ball. Why Maradona ever came up in your post is absurd. No Roman will never be Diego but neither will Messi and to pin those expectations on the kid is bullshit. Look at how many of our players were doomed from that same expectation.

Point of contention in regards to your Roman not taking a shot on goal. Nine shots, three on goal. Factor in the four assists, the set up passes leading to the other seven goals and oh yeah, the better than 85% pass completed ratio. He had more touches than the majority of players in this tournament, constantly defended/hacked by two players at the very least and then forced to drop back to midfield to get service. What the hell more do you want from the guy. Seriously, how many "big name" midfielders in this cup can you name that outplayed him. I'll throw Zizou out there not come up with some legitimate names. Lampard? Gerrard? Ballack?

As to who replaces Roman with the set pieces. The only name that really comes straight on are, Tevez and D'allesandro. They, mainly Tevez took most of the set pieces in the Olympics. Rosales I just don't remember too much about. We've still got time, for all we know it'll end up being Insua:eek:


Where have I stated that Gago is an enganche ? :confused: I must be typing with some kind of invisible text.:rolleyes:

No doubt Roman has been great with Boca and Villareal ( especially his first season). I wish he showed anything close to what he did back in the days during this WC. Hell I wish his performances were even up to what he showed in the confederation cup or the friendly against England. The problem is that I have never seen him do any of the stuff he usually does. All I saw was a player who always played it safe, passing the ball back to the defense most of the time and rarely creating opportunities at the frequency that he used to. He was not the offensive playmaker that I was expecting and I am judging him on that. He was predictable and almost completely harmless.

Those stats are really nice but I actually believe that Riquelme was a nuisance to our attack. Never allowing us to counter-attack and always slowing down the tempo which took the element of surprise out of our game. Most of his shots were either straight to the legs of a defender or way off the target. I believe that those 3 shots were from corners where he tried to do the olympico few times. I do not remember him shooting on goal from the field.

Messi is a kid ? A kid would be someone under the age of 12. Messi is a teenager. To be more precise he is a mature 19 years old. How could he still be called a kid is a mystery to me. Messi does not lack any maturity. He never showed any particular signs of immaturity. He is mature as a footballer and as a person. I do not think he needs to become a smarter. He is already smart enough to compete with the best in la liga and in the world. Pekerman excuse for not playing him is the same type of bullshit you are spewing.

I am not expecting any player to match Maradona. He was simply a footballing miracle. But Messi is the only player I consider capable of following Diego's dynasty. He possesses the same attributes. Riquelme is an entirely different type of player. Which is the point I was trying to make.

Maybe I am being harsh on Riquelme. Maybe if we compare his performances with the other offensive midfielders in this tournament ( including the mighty Ronaldinho) we would come to the conclusion that he had a good tournament. Which might be the reason why he was viewed positevely by the euro media. But still Riquelme is way more talented and creative than Ballack/lampard/gerrard and he never showed his true potential here.