Why are Italian teams so racist? :(

[pookspur]

Originally posted by Soccernva78
Yeah and I guess you're a regular Steven Seagal right? I've been in my share of fights actually and I hate professional wrestling (though I don't know what that has to do with anything). I am talking about REAL fighting and REAL life. A few of those 40 big burly cops who are trained at defending themselves, are more than mediocre fighters and had batons ended up in the hospital with serious injuries after taking on 3 drunken N.Y. Jets offensive linemen. The linemen came away without a scratch. Is that a REAL enough situation for you? I think those cops would disagree with you to say the least.

seriously, mate. you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about. the notion that any one or two human beings could go into a football mob and kick tail is not even remotely on. and it couldn't matter less whether its mike tyson (boxer/thug) or mike tyson (former cardinals infielder).

[SueB]

Hey, I remember Mike Tyson! Slowest baserunner in the history of the major leagues!

[pookspur]

Originally posted by SueB
Hey, I remember Mike Tyson! Slowest baserunner in the history of the major leagues!

you could even throw in ted sizemore and ken rietz, and i still don't think they could take on ultras at farencvaros.

[Soccernova78]

Originally posted by pookspur
seriously, mate. you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about. the notion that any one or two human beings could go into a football mob and kick tail is not even remotely on. and it couldn't matter less whether its mike tyson (boxer/thug) or mike tyson (former cardinals infielder).

Who said anything about a mob? Clanblue said a guy would sucker the player into coming at him and then twenty of his friends would jump him. If it was one athletic giant of a guy versus 20 thugs I simply said my money was on the giant. Especially after hearing what three of them did to 40 cops. And American Football teams have over 40 such giants on the roster all dressed in padding. You're telling me that if a small group of guys started making monkey noises at them and a few of these players decided to wade into the stands to do something about it they wouldn't do some serious damage? Hell, Eric Cantona went into the stands by himself to karate kick and punch a guy after being verbally abused and no one did squat to him. The guy backed down like a cissy and Cantona is hardly the most imposing guy in the world.

[astabooty]

hmm... three 300+lbs, 6'2" giants surrounded by 40 cops. so around 13 cops to one person, surround them with night sticks and they go to the hospital and the others dont have a scratch...if this is tru i am going to guess the cops tried to subdue them without causing injury (in other words acted like pu$$ies).

im saying right now, i think mike tyson (the boxer) could beat me in a fight in probably 10 seconds (if i actually tried to box him) but put around 10 of me against him (let alone 100) and i would f*** his booty up.

and the comment about u may be watchin too much pro wresting, in wrestling 1 guy runs into the ring and takes out 40 others.

[Samarkand]

Originally posted by Soccernva78
Who said anything about a mob? Clanblue said a guy would sucker the player into coming at him and then twenty of his friends would jump him. If it was one athletic giant of a guy versus 20 thugs I simply said my money was on the giant. Especially after hearing what three of them did to 40 cops. And American Football teams have over 40 such giants on the roster all dressed in padding. You're telling me that if a small group of guys started making monkey noises at them and a few of these players decided to wade into the stands to do something about it they wouldn't do some serious damage? Hell, Eric Cantona went into the stands by himself to karate kick and punch a guy after being verbally abused and no one did squat to him. The guy backed down like a cissy and Cantona is hardly the most imposing guy in the world.

Christ, this really is asinine, like those kids trying to figure who'd win a fight between a grizzly and a shark, or a pit bull and a pirhana. Ridiculous.

Couple of facts just to help you.

Other than Cantona, I can't really remember any other players jumping into the stands for a scrap.

This holds also in American sports, where players don't go into the stands either, though it does happen every now and again. (Cubs/Dodgers a few years ago.)

The reasons players don't go into the stands are injuries and fines/sanctions.


Figuring, in your over active imagination, about 3 Jet linebackers charging into the stands has about as much validity as trying to really decide for the ultimate World Championships of Whatthefu ck who'd win between Frodo, wearing the ring, and Buffy the Vampire Slayer with the winner to meet Xena.

The thread is about racism in Italian football, not about

"D'uuuh, Darnell!! Look at me, I done got into an'ther fight with my first cousin, and kicked her ass, I did, swear to God I kicked her goddamned ass. D'uuuh, Darnell!! Look at me, ya thunk I'da kick th'ass o'the big ol' great white shark now?."

BTW, how many league games in Europe or South America have you been to, or is all your research just "hypothetical"?

[supersport]

Originally posted by Soccernva78
Who said anything about a mob? Clanblue said a guy would sucker the player into coming at him and then twenty of his friends would jump him. If it was one athletic giant of a guy versus 20 thugs I simply said my money was on the giant. Especially after hearing what three of them did to 40 cops. And American Football teams have over 40 such giants on the roster all dressed in padding. You're telling me that if a small group of guys started making monkey noises at them and a few of these players decided to wade into the stands to do something about it they wouldn't do some serious damage? Hell, Eric Cantona went into the stands by himself to karate kick and punch a guy after being verbally abused and no one did squat to him. The guy backed down like a cissy and Cantona is hardly the most imposing guy in the world.


When good threads go bad. Whenever the words hooligan, ultra, firm, racism, etc. appear in a subjct line, they just come out of the wood work.

[Clan]

Funny stuff there Samarkand, made me laugh.

Anyways, back to the topic.

Have any of the Italian authorities sent in any sort of undercover people to get into the midst of these "ultras"?
Find out their ringleaders and that sort of stuff.
Nick them in the towns on silly charges and then bring in other stuff to keep them locked up for some time.

This is a tactic that the Fulham road station opted for in the end when it came to dealing with the rather nasty and growing problem with Chelsea in the mid 80's.
After many trial and error-mostly error-methods at the games they finally figured out it wasn't worth the headlines(mostly negative)

This has often been proved in other places to be the best way to deal with such like problems.
In the mid 80's when i was stationed in Belfast i often went to Linfield games.Now, let me tell you, here is a place where racism and bigotry knew no equal, yet the locals had a handle on it.They knew the main trouble makers from undercover people in the crowds and promptly stoped them from ever geting in.Well, most of them anyway.

How much do the Italian owners get a kick out of these "ultras" catching the limelight.
Whats that old media saying about no such thing as bad press?

[AFCA]

Originally posted by Clanblue
Funny stuff there Samarkand, made me laugh.

Anyways, back to the topic.

Have any of the Italian authorities sent in any sort of undercover people to get into the midst of these "ultras"?
Find out their ringleaders and that sort of stuff.
Nick them in the towns on silly charges and then bring in other stuff to keep them locked up for some time.

This is a tactic that the Fulham road station opted for in the end when it came to dealing with the rather nasty and growing problem with Chelsea in the mid 80's.
After many trial and error-mostly error-methods at the games they finally figured out it wasn't worth the headlines(mostly negative)

This has often been proved in other places to be the best way to deal with such like problems.
In the mid 80's when i was stationed in Belfast i often went to Linfield games.Now, let me tell you, here is a place where racism and bigotry knew no equal, yet the locals had a handle on it.They knew the main trouble makers from undercover people in the crowds and promptly stoped them from ever geting in.Well, most of them anyway.

How much do the Italian owners get a kick out of these "ultras" catching the limelight.
Whats that old media saying about no such thing as bad press?

Infiltration isn't that simple. The higher you get into the piramid, the closer it gets and the longer it takes to get trust.

In Holland we've even had a certain article 140 (membership of a criminal organization - a law used to fight maffia and drugs synicats) used against firms... it failed miserably, and rightly so. The numbers and diversity of these groups usually (not always as their have been several groups that ceased existing because of police action. but these were always groups with little history) make real action impossible. Fighting the group as a whole is no option because the group has a certain status and respect among fans and the board... but they will always be groups that raise hooligans.

England's succes in fighting hooliganism is also quite questionable. In Div 1 and 2 there's still a lot going on and a few incidents have ocurred around EPL as well over the past few years. Same in Holland where there was a relatively calm period after 1997 (B'wijk incidents) and where things seemed to be calm, but hooliganism is also on the rise again. It's a culture thing that will draw new generations as the years pass. It can increase, decrease... but I doubt it will ever completely dissapear. And I think that it's for the better in many cases.

[Mobile]

Originally posted by Soccernva78
Hmmm I don't know about that one. Given the choice between a 6'7" 320 lbs angry, athletic black guy and 20 angry, ignorant racists with chromosome damage my money's on the big black guy.

No, my money's on the hooligans. Especially since there are likely to be more than 20 of them.

[AFCA]

Originally posted by Mobile
No, my money's on the hooligans. Especially since there are likely to be more than 20 of them.

Besides that... it's not the dog in the fight, it's the fight in the dog. Size doesn't matter that much, really. I have decked big boys and I've been decked by boys smaller than me. Size matters, but it doesn't decide.