New ideas to think about

[soccrfn]

The Catholic Church has the Vatican Councels to adjust to real changes in the church.

FIFA should organize a major counsel to improve the sport. The sport is still the best inthe world, but it is not beyond improving. And the 2nd worst goals scored ever proves it. We should look at:

1) give 1 minute of the field for a yellow-card offense,

2) if a player is "injured", and comes off the field he should stay off for 2 minutes before coming back on. This would make the player think twice about faking an injury. If he is really hurt, then we should at least make sure he is ok for 2 minutes before going back on.

3) IMPORTANT ONE AND ALWAYS OVERLOOKED: Call obstruction for a defender who blocks out a forward as the ball rolls over the endline and the defender is nowhere near the ball, but obstructs the forward by shoulder or body blocks. Obvsiouly , if he is controlling the ball it is ok, but when the 4-5 feet from the ball, call the foul.

4) call a foul when a player jumps and used his arms to push off the other player (see Italian goal in World Cup final)

5) yellow card for diving..oh is that in effect already...who woulda thunk
If there isn't a foul, then have the balls to give the yellow for the dive.

6) yellow card for any players who gets in referee's face within 10 feet for referee when he makes a call

7) In 1st division leagues and major tournaments, have referee assistant on each endline...maybe even 10 yards out from the goal.

8) Allow after-game review to penalize players for diving, cheapshots, shirtpulling, etc.

9) Review backpass to goalkeeper change. Has it truly made an impact? Or has it done the opposite and stopped quick conteratacks because instead of being able to throw the ball out quickly to counter,a keeper has to just kick it upfield. Or was it a good thought, but has it produced more goals. I don't think so. The 6 second rule has worked better.

[USSF REF]

The Catholic Church has the Vatican Councels to adjust to real changes in the church.

FIFA should organize a major counsel to improve the sport. The sport is still the best inthe world, but it is not beyond improving. And the 2nd worst goals scored ever proves it. We should look at:

1) give 1 minute of the field for a yellow-card offense,

2) if a player is "injured", and comes off the field he should stay off for 2 minutes before coming back on. This would make the player think twice about faking an injury. If he is really hurt, then we should at least make sure he is ok for 2 minutes before going back on.

3) IMPORTANT ONE AND ALWAYS OVERLOOKED: Call obstruction for a defender who blocks out a forward as the ball rolls over the endline and the defender is nowhere near the ball, but obstructs the forward by shoulder or body blocks. Obvsiouly , if he is controlling the ball it is ok, but when the 4-5 feet from the ball, call the foul.

4) call a foul when a player jumps and used his arms to push off the other player (see Italian goal in World Cup final)

5) yellow card for diving..oh is that in effect already...who woulda thunk
If there isn't a foul, then have the balls to give the yellow for the dive.

6) yellow card for any players who gets in referee's face within 10 feet for referee when he makes a call

7) In 1st division leagues and major tournaments, have referee assistant on each endline...maybe even 10 yards out from the goal.

8) Allow after-game review to penalize players for diving, cheapshots, shirtpulling, etc.

9) Review backpass to goalkeeper change. Has it truly made an impact? Or has it done the opposite and stopped quick conteratacks because instead of being able to throw the ball out quickly to counter,a keeper has to just kick it upfield. Or was it a good thought, but has it produced more goals. I don't think so. The 6 second rule has worked better.

1) OK, so this will just make a team fall back into a shell for 1 minute until their player is back on. This would discourage scoring.

2) I see your point here, this thinking is the original reason they are forcing players off the field when the trainer comes on the pitch already. A 2 minute penalty for a legit injury, or temporary bleeding that can be corrected in less than 2 minutes is an unfair penalty to impose, especailly if an opponent got a card for the foul which caused the injury. Better would be to just follow the current laws and sanction people who can be proven to fake injury -- we could start using teh 4th official in this regard.

3) Currently the laws of the game ALLOW for what you are describing. If a player is withing playing distance of the ball (2 yards = 6 feet) then they are permitted to "shield" the ball and protect it on its way out. I think that is good. Any further distance from the ball then becomes "impeding the progress of an opponent" as it is and is punished by an IFK. So it's not overlooked, in fact it's dealt with how the laws say to deal with sheilding.

4) Pushing is already one of the 10 Direct kick fouls. Jumping At an opponent is another. No need to change. You just want tighter enforcement.

5) Balls is one thing, being 100% positive it was a dive is another. Have you ever tried refereeing a game where players dive frequently? If so, you would know just how hard this is to get right. Giving out cards undeservedly would be a disaster.

6) There is already a provision for this - what you're describing is a form of dissent. Plus if you gave a card just for being close to the ref and expressing frustration, probably 50% of the players would be in the book every game, easily.

7) This would be helpful, but you would have to be careful by developing a proper way for these people to work with the rest of the crew. You wouldn't want to give them a whistle. However, players would figure out a way to screen these goal line refs from seeing stuff, when they really wanted to get away with something as they wouldn't be able to move on the field to obtain a different angle like referees can do. So to me, over all - I don't really think it would be helpful, at least until they propose an effective system for doing this. Also, you would have to basically double the refereeing ranks.

8) I fully support this. Particularly we should be punishing successful dives with severe sanctions, multiple match bans and fines.

9) The passback rule is GREAT! Do you really want a player to pass the ball back and forth to the keeper all game, to kill any kind of high pressure the opponents place on them. If the keeper clears it, thats fine, that is what the other defenders do anyway. Keeping the ball out of hands when it comes from your team is a great way to not only speed up play, but to provide potential scoring chances for mistakes made by defenses.

Plus how would you like it if every time the keeper picked up a pass back he used 6 seconds to release the ball, by rolling it to his teammate, who kicked it to the keeper who held it for 6 seconds and rolled it to his teammate, who kicked it to the keeper who held it for 6 seconds and rolled it to his teammate,who kicked it to the keeper who held it for 6 seconds and rolled it to his teammate,who kicked it to the keeper who held it for 6 seconds and rolled it to his teammate,who kicked it to the keeper who held it for 6 seconds and rolled it to his teammate,who kicked it to the keeper who held it for 6 seconds and rolled it to his teammate....

[soccrfn]

1) True. But look how many goals are on power plays in hockey. Could make team with advantage really step up the attack. May also get players to take yellow cards more seriously. Maybe worth a try.

2) There's gotta be someway to improve this problem. If the players is not really injured, he won't stay down and roll 20 times. Maybe make it a minute.

3) But it is never called. I think maybe once in my life I have seen it called but hundreds of times I have seen it ignored. If the rule book truly says 6 feet is acceptable, then I suggest we make it 2-4 feet at max and mandate that refs enforce it. Could put a lot of dangerous free kicks in the box. I am all all for shielding a fair ball, but not for obstruction.

4) Yes, tighter and fair enforcement

5) agree, very difficult, maybe use the after game review for obvious dives

6) I'm saying create a 5 yard circle around the ref that can not be infringed on, just like the 10-yard circle around the kickoff. Obviously, it would be subjective but this way, players would know to step away from the referee. I can't believe how much crap the refs put up with.

7) I saw it as they are there to see if ball goes over the endline or goalline, maybe to help with specific infractions, such as #3 above, shirt pulling, dives, etc. definitely no whistle or flag. As for size of ref team, that is why I suggest only for Premier Leagues and Major tourneys.

8) Agree

9) Yeh, you're right.

[samfan]

8) Allow after-game review to penalize players for diving, cheapshots, shirtpulling, etc.




The following is a summary of an idea I posted in the WC:general area:

I'm thinking the game can be reviewed in real-time by video and the fouls and unsportsmanlike behavior can be tallied so that if a team reaches a certain limit of fouls they will suffer consequences (ie 5 team fouls 1 player sits 5 minutes, 10 team fouls, 2 players sit 10 minutes etc) or (as the limits are reached penalty kicks are awarded to the fouled team for each limit reached, to be assesed at the end of the game). The number of goals prevented by beaten defenders who tactically foul is statistically large and certainly allowing for a PK at the end of the game for a foul crazy team would level the playing field!
Fouling and Diving would be controlled because the whole team becomes accountable for each individual's behavior.

If the players don't respect the Laws, then the game becomes humanly un-refereeable, it's time to put technology to work. The video would provide real-time review, and slow motion review. The video review official(s) would only need to communicate bookings, and penalties as the game draws to a close their wouldn't be any noticable difference to the flow of the game.

[USSF REF]

The following is a summary of an idea I posted in the WC:general area:

I'm thinking the game can be reviewed in real-time by video and the fouls and unsportsmanlike behavior can be tallied so that if a team reaches a certain limit of fouls they will suffer consequences (ie 5 team fouls 1 player sits 5 minutes, 10 team fouls, 2 players sit 10 minutes etc) or (as the limits are reached penalty kicks are awarded to the fouled team for each limit reached, to be assesed at the end of the game). The number of goals prevented by beaten defenders who tactically foul is statistically large and certainly allowing for a PK at the end of the game for a foul crazy team would level the playing field!
Fouling and Diving would be controlled because the whole team becomes accountable for each individual's behavior.

If the players don't respect the Laws, then the game becomes humanly un-refereeable, it's time to put technology to work. The video would provide real-time review, and slow motion review. The video review official(s) would only need to communicate bookings, and penalties as the game draws to a close their wouldn't be any noticable difference to the flow of the game.

So at 15 team fouls can we allow the other team to pick up the ball and run with it for 20 minutes?

You should invent a new sport, because what you're describing would ruin the current one for me.

[soccrfn]

So at 15 team fouls can we allow the other team to pick up the ball and run with it for 20 minutes?

You should invent a new sport, because what you're describing would ruin the current one for me.

Would there be any ideas you would be for trying, or are you a closed door to any ideas to improve this great game?

[usatowin]

Would there be any ideas you would be for trying, or are you a closed door to any ideas to improve this great game?

You need to understand several things:
-Your bar is set way too low, thus occurs in almost every game, and is a far too drastic change because of this.
-If you need a history lesson on "Americanization" attempts, look up 35 yard shootouts, countdown clocks, and 10 yard advancement.
-The game is supposed to be universal. Different countries, and different leagues/levels within each country would be effected disproportiantely.

Now on to your original list:

1) give 1 minute of the field for a yellow-card offense,

Wouldn't accomplish anything. You see any changes when a player's gone off for injury? And how is it timed? At all levels?

2) if a player is "injured", and comes off the field he should stay off for 2 minutes before coming back on. This would make the player think twice about faking an injury. If he is really hurt, then we should at least make sure he is ok for 2 minutes before going back on.

On the right track, except for timing issues. Next stoppage or two, rather than as soon as it's in play again, might be better.

3) IMPORTANT ONE AND ALWAYS OVERLOOKED: Call obstruction for a defender who blocks out a forward as the ball rolls over the endline and the defender is nowhere near the ball, but obstructs the forward by shoulder or body blocks. Obvsiouly , if he is controlling the ball it is ok, but when the 4-5 feet from the ball, call the foul.

It's impeding, not obstruction and it IS called when the ball is not in playing distance. IMO, they should lose the restart or be called for impeding even if it is in playing distance. If they're playing the ball and it goes out, why is it theirs?

4) call a foul when a player jumps and used his arms to push off the other player

That is a foul, despite what you think may or may not have been missed in other games.

5) yellow card for diving..oh is that in effect already...who woulda thunk If there isn't a foul, then have the balls to give the yellow for the dive.

I think if we take one thing from this World Cup, it's that the fans don't want all the problems solved with yellow cards being flashed all over the place.

6) yellow card for any players who gets in referee's face within 10 feet for referee when he makes a call

Have you ever played at any competitive level? Putting a cap on emotions like that is only going to make them explode somewhere else. What the British press says about the Rooney send off aside, I don't think we're seeing any major problems here.

7) In 1st division leagues and major tournaments, have referee assistant on each endline...maybe even 10 yards out from the goal.

You blew it. They need to be on the line, or they risk being caught off on goals like ARs are currently. Somewhere on this board, I've already posted a decent analysis on adding corner flag refs to the ref's area and how they would take out most of the dead zones.

8) Allow after-game review to penalize players for diving, cheapshots, shirtpulling, etc.

OK, but what happens when the game winning PK was a dive? The league says the goal shouldn't have happened, but it counts anyway? Talk about total loss of credibility. And don't forget the Esse (and maybe MerK) PK where all the TV angles in the world show it's wrong, but one photo proves otherwise.

9) Review backpass to goalkeeper change. Has it truly made an impact? Or has it done the opposite and stopped quick conteratacks because instead of being able to throw the ball out quickly to counter,a keeper has to just kick it upfield. Or was it a good thought, but has it produced more goals. I don't think so. The 6 second rule has worked better.

More of a keeper foot skills issue since other players seem to be able to nail passes under pressure. I think the idea was to let the attackers keep the pressure on and be able to get the ball back, rather than the attack going dead when it's picked up.

[samfan]

So at 15 team fouls can we allow the other team to pick up the ball and run with it for 20 minutes?

You should invent a new sport, because what you're describing would ruin the current one for me.


All I'm trying to communicate is that the game as described by the Laws suffers when players don't even try to play by them, in fact the game you enjoy so much isn't far removed from football's "mob ball" roots where players subdued each other before they paid attention to the ball! Something has to be done to stop the intentional fouls, they're killing goal scoring and the diving is disrepecting the referee as well as dishonoring the game. I suppose all of this comes about because of all the discretion afforded the referee, and the real laws are determined during each game, so why should the players bother to play within the laws? Essentially, the game becomes playing the ref instead of the ball and thats not much of a sport anymore, is it?

[usatowin]

All I'm trying to communicate is that the game as described by the Laws suffers when players don't even try to play by them, in fact the game you enjoy so much isn't far removed from football's "mob ball" roots where players subdued each other before they paid attention to the ball! Something has to be done to stop the intentional fouls, they're killing goal scoring and the diving is disrepecting the referee as well as dishonoring the game. I suppose all of this comes about because of all the discretion afforded the referee, and the real laws are determined during each game, so why should the players bother to play within the laws? Essentially, the game becomes playing the ref instead of the ball and thats not much of a sport anymore, is it?

A beautiful pre-World Cup speech. Stop the dives, stop the fouls, take out the discretion, every dive is a yellow card, every intentional foul that injures a player/kills an attack is a yellow card.

End week 1: Rioting in the streets over all the yellow cards.

QFs and beyond: Thank God they went back to doing it the old way.

Must be nice being blind to the world. You can solve all its problems, even if the solution would really just make the problems worse.

[USSF REF]

All I'm trying to communicate is that the game as described by the Laws suffers when players don't even try to play by them, in fact the game you enjoy so much isn't far removed from football's "mob ball" roots where players subdued each other before they paid attention to the ball! Something has to be done to stop the intentional fouls, they're killing goal scoring and the diving is disrepecting the referee as well as dishonoring the game. I suppose all of this comes about because of all the discretion afforded the referee, and the real laws are determined during each game, so why should the players bother to play within the laws? Essentially, the game becomes playing the ref instead of the ball and thats not much of a sport anymore, is it?

Refs don't make the laws. Also, fouls are a part of the game, just because it is illegal to push doesn't mean people won't do it. If you want to stop fouls in the game then you have to change the game to allow NO contact. Then you could count up fouls like basketball and eject players after a certain number.

Let's be realistic, the fight for the ball and to win is difficult and frought with fouls and physical play. Either you like it or you don't. If you don't like it, don't watch it or support it. I for one don't think the game needs most of these radical suggestions. Maybe you do, but there isn't going to be a magical fix.

Face it, the game of soccer favors low scoring, and thats OK. Most sports are higher scoring. Soccer is more of a battle for a very rare and precious commodity, a goal. People will foul to prevent them, so the attackers have to come up with new ways to score. I like that it's HARD to get a goal, it is fairly unique to a sport that you have to battle all game and maybe get no goals or maybe just one. Sometimes one goal is all you need and that is the battle!

AND STOP BLAMING THE REFS WHEN YOU CAN'T SCORE :mad: (most of the time!)

[samfan]

A beautiful pre-World Cup speech. Stop the dives, stop the fouls, take out the discretion, every dive is a yellow card, every intentional foul that injures a player/kills an attack is a yellow card.

End week 1: Rioting in the streets over all the yellow cards.

QFs and beyond: Thank God they went back to doing it the old way.

The suggestion I propose needn't have anything to do with yellow cards, I'm suggesting setting a limit to the fouls and unsportsmanlike behavior. And providing a consequence for a team that systematically infringes the laws.
If the number of fouls/"unsportsmanlike incidents" I chose is too low then choose a better number. The referee's job becomes impossible if the players aren't mindfully playing within the laws, my suggestions are a way for the team as a whole to keep the laws in mind. (don't do the crime if you can't do the time).

Must be nice being blind to the world. You can solve all its problems, even if the solution would really just make the problems worse.

Do you really believe that if a team gives up a PK for their persistent infringement of the laws they will increase the amount of fouling/"unsportsmanlike behavior" (ie. make the problem worse)? Or is it really just too hard for a player to develop the skills necessary to play by the laws?