Cannot bear to watch next week.

[Irelandboy]

Please offer an alternative to:

1) Walking dog (have to buy one)
2) Church
3) get so drunk it won't matter...............

[martymarts]

So much for my predictions! After the last 3 games how could anyone have made us favorites for the CL? They were rank, so what does that make us?

If my calculations are right a draw with Valencia will do it. I think we could lose and still go through if Roma beat Ajax, but, that means Roma can't got through and therefore have nothing to play for? Is that correct?

[dwinkler]

Originally posted by martymarts
So much for my predictions! After the last 3 games how could anyone have made us favorites for the CL? They were rank, so what does that make us?

If my calculations are right a draw with Valencia will do it. I think we could lose and still go through if Roma beat Ajax, but, that means Roma can't got through and therefore have nothing to play for? Is that correct? Sort of. Roma can go through if we win and they win, depending on how many goals they score. They might even be able to go through if we tie, but I'm not sure about that (and not too interested in doing the math right now).

Since the two games will be played at the same time, it will be harder for them to watch the scoreboard, unless there's a real rout in progress.

You're right, though. If we lose they're done.

[martymarts]

In Saturdays' game with Chelsea I would've put money on Henry missing an unjust pen. I've seen him do it before and the outcome speaks for itself!

When keown got Totti his marching orders Henry went over and appeared to console Totti. It appeared to be another example of how he can lack the killer instinct; the thing that made Man U the team they were in the 90's. If that had been Cantona or Zidan, 2 great froggies who I think he is at least as good as, they would'nt have been consoling Totti, they would have been licking their lips over all the extra available space.

Henry is a nice guy and one hell of a footballer, but if he's ever going to be European, or even World, footballer of the year perhaps he should think about enrolling in the Roy Keane School of Football?

[Senor Askew]

Originally posted by martymarts


Henry is a nice guy and one hell of a footballer, but if he's ever going to be European, or even World, footballer of the year perhaps he should think about enrolling in the Roy Keane School of Football?

Thierry's consoling of an opponent who was unjustly sent off and his failure to capitalize on the man advantage are two completely different things.

Indeed, it wasn't his failure alone, it was the entire teams failure to capitalize on their advantage. And they even allowed Roma to score an equalizer no less!!

The whole team bottled it today not just Henry.

[Irelandboy]

WHAT IT MEANS FOR ARSENAL
A point against Valencia sees Arsenal qualify
A win for Valencia means they progress
Arsenal can still qualify even if they lose but Roma must beat Ajax by two clear goals
Wins for Ajax and Valencia mean Arsenal are out

[dwinkler]

Originally posted by Irelandboy
WHAT IT MEANS FOR ARSENAL
A point against Valencia sees Arsenal qualify
A win for Valencia means they progress
Arsenal can still qualify even if they lose but Roma must beat Ajax by two clear goals
Wins for Ajax and Valencia mean Arsenal are out Not sure which website you got this from (probably the frequently wrong Soccernet) but goals have nothing to do with it. If Roma wins we're in, no matter what we do.

[phishy]

does totti's red card mean he is not eligible for the next match against ajax?

[dwinkler]

Originally posted by phishy
does totti's red card mean he is not eligible for the next match against ajax? I think you're right, it's either a 1-game or 3-game ban.

[CDNGooner]

Originally posted by dwinkler
I think you're right, it's either a 1-game or 3-game ban.

Great. Another defensive lapse causes a draw and a red card to Totti could come back and bite us in the ass. Ajax must be thanking the ref right now by taking the heart of the team out of next week's fixture.

Of course, we still hold our own destiny but I'm am absolutely not confident at the moment. With a replay against Chelsea and a tie against Valencia at their home - a treble hope could quickly turn into just a domestic league title and that isn't secure yet with NewCastle and Man U still breathing down our necks. That's the fine line in football eh?

Oh well, maybe this nervous feeling is better for the team - they really have to concentrate and get the job done period. I don't think Arsenal has been too confident or arrogant in their play - I just think they need to step it up and show their potential.

These are the times where I miss Tony Adams . . .

[HighburyGoon]

Originally posted by CDNGooner
These are the times where I miss Tony Adams . . .

I know exactly what you mean...

[kygunner]

I think you guys have missed the point. The lad is asking for help.....so raise a pint and say I VOTE FOR #3!!!

[Irelandboy]

Originally posted by dwinkler
Not sure which website you got this from (probably the frequently wrong Soccernet) but goals have nothing to do with it. If Roma wins we're in, no matter what we do.

That is wrong, because Ajaz will always be better than us if we finish level - they've done better against us!!

If we all finish on 7 pts:

If Roma win by two,
Ajax are better than us
We are better than Roma
Roma are better than Ajax

So a 2 goal win for Roma will mean, we'll go through on goal difference......still with me?

[martymarts]

This article off the wires totally hits the nail on the head for me:-

Arsenal still struggling in Europe
By Robert Woodward

LONDON (Reuters) - Coach Arsene Wenger said Arsenal's game with AS Roma would be their "moment of truth" and Tuesday's 1-1 draw revealed an unpalatable reality - the English champions are some way off being a force in European soccer.

While the London club can sweep aside most teams in the premier league without breaking stride, the likes of Roma, Valencia and Ajax Amsterdam are proving frustratingly difficult to finish off, particularly at home.

Arsenal have not won a Champions League match at Highbury since September and against Roma, not for the first time, they dominated possession but failed to kill off their opponents.

Some of the Arsenal approach work was breathtaking but over-elaboration let them down repeatedly and Roma, despite playing with 10 men for more than 70 minutes, rode their luck to grab a draw.

Arsenal need a point from their final game in Valencia to reach the last eight from group B, in which all four teams can still qualify, but they may need to replace Gallic flair with a measure of grit if they are to advance further.

Thierry Henry, Dennis Bergkamp, Robert Pires and Sylvain Wiltord are four of the most gifted players in the premier league but they rarely tackle back, leaving most of the defensive duties in midfield to captain Patrick Vieira.

WORKRATE SLOWED

He was outstanding on Tuesday as both a creator and a destroyer -- scoring Arsenal's goal in the 12th minute -- but once his workrate slowed in the second half, Arsenal's momentum was lost.

Indeed Roma could have won the game if substitute Vincenzo Montella had buried an easy header with just seven minutes to go.

That chance came from a cross from the right by Cafu who made the most of fill-in fullback Giovanni van Bronckhorst's inexperience in a defence which was caught cold in first half injury time when Antonio Cassano nipped in to score.

Compare Arsenal's injury-hit back four of van Bronckhorst, Pascal Cygan, Martin Keown and Lauren with Roma's Aldair, Walter Samuel, Vincent Candela and Christian Panucci and it is easy to see why rivals never give up hope of scoring at Highbury.

The recovery of Sweden's Freddie Ljungberg from injury could add meat to the midfield, and see the sidelining of Wiltord.

But the London side are yet to develop the mental toughness of their domestic rivals Manchester United which is needed to grind out a win in European games like the one against Roma.

Wenger seems determined to stick with his "entertainment first" policy of fielding ball players rather than tacklers and complained that luck had not been with Arsenal on Tuesday.

"It's our game to put the ball on the ground and pass it quickly around the box. Sometimes it is a matter of inches, some nights it does not work for you.

"If you take the games against Ajax, Valencia and Roma and take the shots on goal we had and, then the shots against us, you would get quite mad. It is unbelievable the possession we had and the few chances against us," he said.

[OPArsenal]

I think it's time for me to put in yet another advert for my Arsenal player de jour. Actuallt for the whole season, and since I discovered this site. Where was KANU on matchday??? If Arsene would have put in Kanu and Freddy earlier, I think we would have had a better chance in the match. Wenger, put in our Canoe. He can do the job and do it with ease. Remember his backheel goal last year? He is GOOD, dammit!

Vive le AFC!

OPArsenal

[fox point fury]

Sorry OPArse, I disagree.

Kanu has only come close to living up to his potential once, and that was many many moons ago. I wish he could come near the form of that Chelsea game more often but he just doesn't seem to have it in him.

He may add a bit of depth to the team, and if Wenger ever needs anyone to wander around aimlessly or try to dribble the whole team he has Kanu as his ace in the hole. Otherwise, he should be behind Henry, Bergie, Wiltord, Jeffers, and IMO Aliaderie. Hell, I'd rather see Pires or Freddy up front before Kanu gets into a crucial champs league match.

Just my $0.02.

[mogador]

From what I've read a draw will see us through next week. I'm feeling ok because one could say without the slightest bit of irony is that when it comes to big matches a draw is something the Arsenal do well.

I've read some of the killer instinct comments and I'm beginning to wonder myself sometimes.

The thing is we've all seen it in a number of players, DB10 is abolutely lethal, Wiltord will can absolutely cut apart the oppositon, Henry will humiliate defenders time and time again. Viera has definitely got it but we all know how often he's in a position to shoot on goal.

I was reading about the Barca result, they are unbeaten in Champs League far which I find astounding but now as much when you look at people like Kluivert.

Inter vs Newcastle, Shearer knocks in two away, and then Cordoba and Vieri, (another Kluivert type in my opinion), manage to claw there way back.

It seems like the smell of blood tends to make the boys wan't to keep their distance instead of moving in for the kill, I really can't explain it but it's very dissapointing.

Oh well, let's hear it for the draw at the Mestalla and pray that Sol is back in the lineup next week.



We just never seem to see this from Arsenal when it really matters.

[ljunberg19]

From what i understand Valencia will need a win next week to advance. With Sol (hopefully) back in the lineup and a pretty easy game this week in the Leauge we could field a well rested team with plenty of chances to counter.

[martymarts]

I'm sorry to say that Wiltord and Henry played Kanu style football yesterday; held on to the ball too long, tried to take on too many players and finally ran out of steam and got nowhere!

Kanu is a skillful player, but, too many times I've seen really promising moves breakdown because his languid dribbling allows time for the opposition to track back and plug the holes that quick passing has opened up.

At its best Arsenal's passing and movement is breathtaking. It is actually a thing of beauty to watch. Kanu doesn't fit into that and never has. He doesn't belong at Highbury because he has never got on AW's wavelength on how the game should be played.

[dwinkler]

Originally posted by Irelandboy
That is wrong, because Ajaz will always be better than us if we finish level - they've done better against us!!

If we all finish on 7 pts:

If Roma win by two,
Ajax are better than us
We are better than Roma
Roma are better than Ajax

So a 2 goal win for Roma will mean, we'll go through on goal difference......still with me? You're killing me. For the last time, you are wrong. You're hung up on away goals or goal difference when it's not even the first tiebreaker.

In case you missed it in another thread, here are the tiebreakers, in order of importance, from uefa.com:

-Higher number of points in the matches between the teams in question
-Superior goal difference from matches between the teams in question
-Higher number of goals scored away from home in matches between the teams in question
-Goal difference from all group matches
-Higher number of goals scored
-UEFA coefficient (club + national association) based on past five seasons

Yes, if you only consider Arsenal and Ajax, Ajax do have the advantage based on the 3rd tiebreaker because they scored 1 at Highbury and we were shut out there.

But I was responding to your claim that:

Arsenal can still qualify even if they lose but Roma must beat Ajax by two clear goals
Wins for Ajax and Valencia mean Arsenal are out Wrong. If Roma beats Ajax and we lose it's a 3-way tie for 2nd place, each team with 7 points. In that case we win based on the first tiebreaker. The official Arsenal site explains it all here:
http://www.arsenal.com/sportsappcontroller.jsp?command=setSelectedId&nextPage=displayheadline&type=com.sportapps.news.NewsItem&id=3666950

So, are you still with me?