England vs. Portugal (Horacio Elizondo) [R]

[Alberto]

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/06/t/ref/l/38922.jpg
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/06/en/w/ref/38922_ELIZONDO_Horacio.html

Very experience and frankly I am surprised he is here given his poor previous performance.

[Psychosis hsv]

world class ref, the linesman made a mistake last time

[USSF REF]

So far...

At the half...

He's showing us how it should be done.

[Englishref]

Apart from the red card, which I thought was harsh to say the least, and his weakness with dealing with the diving, I thought he had a good game.

As for us, well we were comfortably matching Portugal until the sending off, at which point we naturally had to go defensive, and we were excellent from then on. Unfortunately, and as always with us at tournaments, the blasted penalty shoot out proved fatal. :(

[JLGimeno]

Rooney's send off seemed harsh to me as well. The referee, however, was about 4 yards away when it happened, so I find it hard to second-guess him from the other side of the world. ;)

Otherwise, I think he had an excellent performance

-Jorge

[Alberto]

Harsh? What did you miss? Rooney was upset he did not get the foul call earlier (he was kicked in the shins) and in frustration stepped back and onto the groin of Carvahlo. It was clearly seious foul play or if it was already whistled dead violent conduct.

[lanman]

I've said on other threads that I'm not sure of the intent, but can understand the decision and until I get the chance to see it more then I stand by that. The question I want to ask is "How was that not a free kick to England given the blatant fouling of Rooney prior to the stamping incident?" Carvalho almost had the shirt off his back yet escaped without any punishment.

[Alberto]

I've said on other threads that I'm not sure of the intent, but can understand the decision and until I get the chance to see it more then I stand by that. The question I want to ask is "How was that not a free kick to England given the blatant fouling of Rooney prior to the stamping incident?" Carvalho almost had the shirt off his back yet escaped without any punishment.

It was done with malicious intent by Rooney. I agree the restart should have a a DFK to England for the earlier foul.

[lanman]

It was done with malicious intent by Rooney. I agree the restart should have a a DFK to England for the earlier foul.

I'm not going to argue the red if it was for the stamp, but given the time it took for the referee to show him it there has to be some doubt over whether it was for that incident or the push on Ronaldo (which would have been soft beyond belief).
Carvalho should, without question, have been booked for the foul on Rooney prior to the incident and would then have seen red later for his later yellow.

[MidwestRef]

There should have definitely been a direct free kick foul against Portugal. I totally blanked on whether there was an initial call of if play was stopped because of Rooney's action.

A yellow on Portugal would have at least been defensible. I don't think there would have been too many complaints had that occurred.

[B Rock]

Elizondo basically gave Portugal a license to flop all over the field.

He completley ignored Fifa's diving directives as even when he was able to recognize a dive (first half Ronaldo for example) he refused to produce the requisite yellow card.

A disgraceful and yellow bellied peformance, especially when you consider he was so willing to markedly change the game on a questionable red card.

This performance was far worse than Ivanov's IMO.

[Ref Flunkie]

I thought he had a pretty good game. Portugal is just a poor imitation of the Italian diving team. He did fall for some dives BOTH ways (which happens in every match), but I think he managed things well. B Rock, I'm curious as to what you think FIFA's directives are for diving in this WC. Do you have an inside source on the referee meetings? To me it has been fairly consistant in this WC, caution for dives trying to draw a PK, no call on flops everywhere else. I don't recall a flop by Portugal in the PA, but I could be wrong.

[GlennAA11]

you know the final will probably end up Italy vs Italy Junior. And I hope no one bothers to watch if that comes to pass.

[Ref Flunkie]

you know the final will probably end up Italy vs Italy Junior. And I hope no one bothers to watch if that comes to pass.

I hope not. I will NOT watch that crap.

[macheath]

I'm not going to argue the red if it was for the stamp, but given the time it took for the referee to show him it there has to be some doubt over whether it was for that incident or the push on Ronaldo (which would have been soft beyond belief).
Carvalho should, without question, have been booked for the foul on Rooney prior to the incident and would then have seen red later for his later yellow.

It was for the stomp, although he may have had some help from the ref team. But here's the visual that confirms it was the stomp:

http://soccernet-att.espn.go.com/design05/DJ/20060701/refrooney_sb.jpg

[Alberto]

Elizondo was much better today. I think he gave Luis Figo way too much of the benefit of the doubt for whaqt were at minimum three clear examples of simulation. I would expect Figo to fall down after being slightly brushed. I also believe Elizondo should have cautioned for simulation. I agree that simulation only seems to be called if a player dives in the penalty box. If he's 50 yards from goal caution. Let's get it out of the game. Two examples come to mind. In the first half Figo was bearly touched and flopped in agony on the ground. England plaed the ball out and returned it to Portugal. In the second half before Rooneys send off Maniche feigned getting hit in the face. There was no contact. No foul was called and England played the ball out again. Clearly, this nonsense is the worst form of cheating. Thankfully Elizondo did not fall for it too many times, but I would love to see it out of football.

[lanman]

Elizondo was much better today. I think he gave Luis Figo way too much of the benefit of the doubt for whaqt were at minimum three clear examples of simulation. I would expect Figo to fall down after being slightly brushed. I also believe Elizondo should have cautioned for simulation. I agree that simulation only seems to be called if a player dives in the penalty box. If he's 50 yards from goal caution. Let's get it out of the game. Two examples come to mind. In the first half Figo was bearly touched and flopped in agony on the ground. England plaed the ball out and returned it to Portugal. In the second half before Rooneys send off Maniche feigned getting hit in the face. There was no contact. No foul was called and England played the ball out again. Clearly, this nonsense is the worst form of cheating. Thankfully Elizondo did not fall for it too many times, but I would love to see it out of football.

Another example was when Viana got caught by Crouch's arm and played on until he had lost the ball before collapsing.
He was generally very good on spotting dives - I just wish he actually punished them with yellows rather than let them go.

[lanman]

It was for the stomp, although he may have had some help from the ref team. But here's the visual that confirms it was the stomp:

Well that puts the matter to bed then. I'm certainly a lot happier that it was for that and not the afters.

[Aveirenses]

There should have definitely been a direct free kick foul against Portugal. I totally blanked on whether there was an initial call of if play was stopped because of Rooney's action.

A yellow on Portugal would have at least been defensible. I don't think there would have been too many complaints had that occurred.
Yellow to Portugal? For what? For a tackle? Get real, son. The English complain it's a physical game, but when someone hits a shin, it's totally alright to go out stepping on someone's balls. :rolleyes:

You simply can't do that when the reff is right on top of play the whole time, and Rooney knows that, he's not 16 anymore, he needs to grow-up.

The reason he may not have shown the red straight away, could be because of Ronaldo's protest, obviously have to calm things down a bit, and he couldn't wait too long to give the red-card.

As for Figo, I don't think he was diving, he just doesn't have the legs to keep pace with the game, that's why he fell, I don't think he was trying to buy fouls, just a physical thing.

Hugo Viana did get hit in the face, I don't think there's really any debating that. He kept going while he could, because he wasn't in a very pleasent position where he could give the ball away without a fight. And when he lost out he wanted to get some treatment for his eye. Not a dive, not anything like that, just a matter of fighting for the ball until you can't anymore.

Maniche, however, tried to buy some time, barely got hit in the face and stayed down, however the English players don't help themselves by dribbling with their fists out all over the place, not exactly the smartest thinking there. Not defending Maniche here, just giving a heads-up to English players on how to play the game.

Having said that, it's not as if England didn't get calls that went their way. (Frank Lampard handball/Ronaldo on the wing when the ball never crossed, throw-in given/a few balls where they got a goalkick instead of a corner despite deflection out)

But all the English have been mainly concerned with is the red-card, which was easily the right-call if you see the images.

[Alberto]

Yellow to Portugal? For what? For a tackle? Get real, son. The English complain it's a physical game, but when someone hits a shin, it's totally alright to go out stepping on someone's balls. :rolleyes:

You simply can't do that when the reff is right on top of play the whole time, and Rooney knows that, he's not 16 anymore, he needs to grow-up.

The reason he may not have shown the red straight away, could be because of Ronaldo's protest, obviously have to calm things down a bit, and he couldn't wait too long to give the red-card.

As for Figo, I don't think he was diving, he just doesn't have the legs to keep pace with the game, that's why he fell, I don't think he was trying to buy fouls, just a physical thing.

Hugo Viana did get hit in the face, I don't think there's really any debating that. He kept going while he could, because he wasn't in a very pleasent position where he could give the ball away without a fight. And when he lost out he wanted to get some treatment for his eye. Not a dive, not anything like that, just a matter of fighting for the ball until you can't anymore.

Maniche, however, tried to buy some time, barely got hit in the face and stayed down, however the English players don't help themselves by dribbling with their fists out all over the place, not exactly the smartest thinking there. Not defending Maniche here, just giving a heads-up to English players on how to play the game.

Having said that, it's not as if England didn't get calls that went their way. (Frank Lampard handball/Ronaldo on the wing when the ball never crossed, throw-in given/a few balls where they got a goalkick instead of a corner despite deflection out)

But all the English have been mainly concerned with is the red-card, which was easily the right-call if you see the images.


You really need to watch the game again and the replays of Figo. He barely gets touched, they are the kind of touches you might have on a busy street brushing against someone else and he falls to the ground. It has nothing to do with losing his legs because of his age. It has all to do with trying to get away with simulation.

Viana was hit and I find it the height of cyncism he then flopped several seconds later when it was clear he would not win the ball.

Maniche wasn't even hit in the face. The English player grabbed his shoulder for a split second and knowing the referee was yards away from the play and also realizing he would not win the ball threw himself to the ground. A really bush league move. That is why I can't stand Portugal. For all their skill they are consumate hucksters and cheaters. As Earl says Karma is a bitch. It will get them in the semi-final.