American Question for fans of other Nationalities

[Crafty Bernardo]

I am an American fan of soccer, but the one thing that drives me ABSOLUTELY NUTS about watching soccer (especially this WC) is all the diving and ankle grabbing and play-acting and stretchers for uninjured players, etc., etc., etc.

I literally have to look away from the TV in disgust when the players do this or else I actually get angry!

Every other American fan I've talked to (especially the ones only exposed to soccer during the WC) say the same thing. For the casual fan, it's usually the first thing they bring up. Not the play, not the athleticism, not the goals, but the flopping.. I find that really, really sad.

The quesion I have is this... does all the flopping and play-acting bother the European fan and the Latin fan and the African fan and the Asian fan the same way as well? Or is this just something that has to do with American culture?

[Crafty Bernardo]

Oh... and I wanted to add one more thing to that... I would like FIFA to implement this rule:

"If a player needs a stretcher to get off the field, then said player had better be really friggin' injured, because that player is not allowed back in play for 30 minutes of game-time."

I mean, a stretcher is absolutely not necessary unless you've broken your leg or torn your ACL.. if either of those things have happened, you probably aren't going to be playing the rest of the game anyway.

[celito]

Oh... and I wanted to add one more thing to that... I would like FIFA to implement this rule:

"If a player needs a stretcher to get off the field, then said player had better be really friggin' injured, because that player is not allowed back in play for 30 minutes of game-time."

I mean, a stretcher is absolutely not necessary unless you've broken your leg or torn your ACL.. if either of those things have happened, you probably aren't going to be playing the rest of the game anyway.

That's stupid. It would punish the players that are really hurt and award the teams that foul hard. No easy way around it.

[Pigs]

The quesion I have is this... does all the flopping and play-acting bother the European fan and the Latin fan and the African fan and the Asian fan the same way as well? Or is this just something that has to do with American culture?

No, but it bothers the English. It's bothered the English for YEARS. England has tried in the past to play the game fair, but foreign B*STARDS have cheated England in the past. You'll never see an English player roll over the floor like he's been shot. Sadly you'll see them go down a bit more easier. But not even 10 years ago, English players used to stay on their feet thru the roughest of tackles. But we've lost games because of it.

Jurgen Klinsmann brought diving to the Prem, and everyone was in uproar at his diving antics, and I'm not talking about the dives after he scored. But it's one of those things now, it's pisses us off, but not so much as it used to.

The ankle grabbing, the time wasting, and rolling over on the floor, and waving imaginery yellow cards, and trying to get people sent off,
The Latin countries started it, and they continue to be the worst offenders.

FIFA were the ones who implemented the stretcher rule I think. Coz players (mainly latin) used do stay on the floor for a long time to use up time pretending they were injured. So the best rule is get a stretcher and get him off the pitch as soon as possible.

[Crafty Bernardo]

That's stupid. It would punish the players that are really hurt and award the teams that foul hard. No easy way around it.

How's that stupid? If you're injured enough TO NEED A STRETCHER, then not playing for the next 30 minutes shouldn't exactly be a problem. And vice-versa, If you can play soccer within 30 minutes, then you don't need a stretcher to move 20 yards off the field.


How about this.... I've been known to watch Basketball, Tennis, American Football, Baseball, a little Aussie Rules Football, Track & Field, & Bicycling... and in none of those sports have I ever seen an athlete taken off the playing surface on a stretcher, only to hop to his feet & get right back into the game. In all those other sports, if a guy needs a stretcher, he goes straight to the hospital!

[Crafty Bernardo]

I should get back to the original question... hopefully I get more answers.

I'm not trying to say anything good or bad here... I honestly am just curious how the fan outside the states sees it...

Does the flopping bother the other fans as much as it seems to bother the American fan? Or is it just understood as part of the game?

[Crafty Bernardo]

FIFA were the ones who implemented the stretcher rule I think. Coz players (mainly latin) used do stay on the floor for a long time to use up time pretending they were injured. So the best rule is get a stretcher and get him off the pitch as soon as possible.

I just noticed that... "Stretcher Rule"? Is that a time-limit that they allow a player to writhe on the ground before bringing in a stretcher to take him off? How long is that?

[DooMSireN]

I am an American fan of soccer, but the one thing that drives me ABSOLUTELY NUTS about watching soccer (especially this WC) is all the diving and ankle grabbing and play-acting and stretchers for uninjured players, etc., etc., etc.

I literally have to look away from the TV in disgust when the players do this or else I actually get angry!

Every other American fan I've talked to (especially the ones only exposed to soccer during the WC) say the same thing. For the casual fan, it's usually the first thing they bring up. Not the play, not the athleticism, not the goals, but the flopping.. I find that really, really sad.

The quesion I have is this... does all the flopping and play-acting bother the European fan and the Latin fan and the African fan and the Asian fan the same way as well? Or is this just something that has to do with American culture?

As an Englishman, nothing pisses me off in this game more than people pretending to have been tackled then crying about it. Also, people gesturing to the referee that people should get yellow/red carded for an incident is totally unacceptable. I look forward to the day when it is once again wiped out of football.

[Crafty Bernardo]

As an Englishman, nothing pisses me off in this game more than people pretending to have been tackled then crying about it. Also, people gesturing to the referee that people should get yellow/red carded for an incident is totally unacceptable. I look forward to the day when it is once again wiped out of football.

Doomsiren... that's two votes for frustration from the Brits... and I believe it seeing as the British team is always one of the least offensive teams when it comes to the flopping & faking... (Argentina & Italy are damn-near impossible for me to watch).

Can you tell me of the culture in the rest of Europe (outside England)? Does it bother the fans or is it just considered part of the game?

[DooMSireN]

Well from what i've seen it seems that people from southern Europe just accept it as a part of the game. Generally from what i've seen nothern european teams tend to "dive" less than countries such as Spain, Portugal & Italy (the main suspects)

Though that is not definitive, i'm sure some hot-headed southern european person will come in here claiming that England dive too and pic out a couple of particular situations where maybe Gerrard or Owen have "dived". Though I would like to remind anyone who feels the need to do this, that its not a common occurance among teams such as England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, Sweden or Norway. There are other countries too, but they're even less prolific in football its hardly worth mentioning them all.

Germany & France would get an honourable mention becauase they arn't prime suspects in this. *Yes I know Henry dived, i'm sure hes crying in his bed about it right now... really.*

Unfortunately, I have to admit the English team has picked up a few diving traits off some other teams over the last few years, but I don't know of one person who actually likes seeing it happen. It should get stamped out ASAP, with red cards if necessary.

Good night, its 3:45 here.. just noticed ;)

[celito]

No, but it bothers the English. It's bothered the English for YEARS. England has tried in the past to play the game fair, but foreign B*STARDS have cheated England in the past. You'll never see an English player roll over the floor like he's been shot. Sadly you'll see them go down a bit more easier. But not even 10 years ago, English players used to stay on their feet thru the roughest of tackles. But we've lost games because of it.

Jurgen Klinsmann brought diving to the Prem, and everyone was in uproar at his diving antics, and I'm not talking about the dives after he scored. But it's one of those things now, it's pisses us off, but not so much as it used to.

The ankle grabbing, the time wasting, and rolling over on the floor, and waving imaginery yellow cards, and trying to get people sent off,
The Latin countries started it, and they continue to be the worst offenders.

FIFA were the ones who implemented the stretcher rule I think. Coz players (mainly latin) used do stay on the floor for a long time to use up time pretending they were injured. So the best rule is get a stretcher and get him off the pitch as soon as possible.

It has been part of the game for a long time. Stop crying about it, accept it, and live with it. As a player, some of those hits can get you hurt for a couple of minutes. Why should you be limping on the field for a couple of minutes and give your team a disadvantadge ? If a player tackles you enough to break your momentum decreasing your chances to get to a ball but not enough to knock you down, why should you stay on your feet ? I do hate the diving when no foul is committed.

IMO this started years ago when defenders used to be very ruthless and careless with their tackles. So offensive players, specially the more technical ones started trying to level the playing field by making sure they got refs attention. Think of how Pele' was hacked down in WC'66 and taken out of the competition. And some players still do it today. Look at the tackle the dutch defender had on C. Ronaldo in the beginning of the Holland x Portugal match.

[Ricardo_29]

I am an American fan of soccer, but the one thing that drives me ABSOLUTELY NUTS about watching soccer (especially this WC) is all the diving and ankle grabbing and play-acting and stretchers for uninjured players, etc., etc., etc.

I literally have to look away from the TV in disgust when the players do this or else I actually get angry!

Every other American fan I've talked to (especially the ones only exposed to soccer during the WC) say the same thing. For the casual fan, it's usually the first thing they bring up. Not the play, not the athleticism, not the goals, but the flopping.. I find that really, really sad.

The quesion I have is this... does all the flopping and play-acting bother the European fan and the Latin fan and the African fan and the Asian fan the same way as well? Or is this just something that has to do with American culture?

Well you have many Australians who think exactly the same way, me included.

For the casual fans, which many of my friends are, the diving and over-acting that goes on in this sport is HEAVEN for those who want to bag the cr@p out of the game, it really comes down to...

Diving= weakness

This leads on to people disgusted with the way they are ALLOWED to get away with it, i can't believe some of the people on here that call blatant over-acting 'gamesmanship'......Its bloody cowardess and it bloody weak.

Are they actually that WEAK or are they just acting for the ref, because these players would be crucified in any of the sports over here, and this is what it comes down to, Australia and the US are exposed to tougher sports, with contact, and people who are strong and don't act weak when slightly touched.

I respect the players who don't fall down like a sack of potatoes and act as if they have a real injury, and this is why i LOVED it when the Australian supporters were booing the weaklings who went down for NO reason.....if you are injured then stay down, but if you fake it and act like a BAFOON, lying on the ground as if you have been shot and then get up after 20 seconds as if nothing happened then you should at least get a yellow card.

They are either really tough and can play when tackled strongly or they fake it to get the free (unsportsmanlike and weak) or they are truly hurt (LMFAO- also weak).

If only these players were trained hard and taught to brace for challengers, stay up and keep going, be a freakin MAN, don't fall over like you've been shot........

Noone cares, but this is a big factor (IMO) as to why they game hasn't succeeded in Australia, we are used to hard physical games, playing on after heavy hits, not falling over and giving in.........oh well

[bestianera]

I am an American fan of soccer, but the one thing that drives me ABSOLUTELY NUTS about watching soccer (especially this WC) is all the diving and ankle grabbing and play-acting and stretchers for uninjured players, etc., etc., etc.

I literally have to look away from the TV in disgust when the players do this or else I actually get angry!

Every other American fan I've talked to (especially the ones only exposed to soccer during the WC) say the same thing. For the casual fan, it's usually the first thing they bring up. Not the play, not the athleticism, not the goals, but the flopping.. I find that really, really sad.

The quesion I have is this... does all the flopping and play-acting bother the European fan and the Latin fan and the African fan and the Asian fan the same way as well? Or is this just something that has to do with American culture?the flopping and diving issue is almost as old as the game itself; it was always bothering - to anyone watching who isn't completely blinded by bias - and it's always going to be there.
However, the reason all the (american) soccer fans you've talked to are so obsesssed by the issue in very recent times is that they're focusing on (supposed) flops and dives to deny the poor performance of the USA Team in this WC, since they expected so much from it. And they don't want to look like fools for ridiculously overrating their players, or have to admit the clear superiority of the opposition.
So they look for excuses.

Same is true for 95% of the american press. My suggestion: learn another language

[leg_breaker]

How's that stupid? If you're injured enough TO NEED A STRETCHER, then not playing for the next 30 minutes shouldn't exactly be a problem. And vice-versa, If you can play soccer within 30 minutes, then you don't need a stretcher to move 20 yards off the field.

You don't know anything about sport.

[Tai Ga Wutz]

It sullens me, when it happens. How it came up in futball, I dont know, I guess, it's the other side of the coin to ruthless physical play. Took of from there, leading now a life of it's own. Some further pecularities contribute to it, that you dont have in other contact sports, afaik. Mainly the common contact with legs and shoes. Serious pain (with or without injury) is more likely, and a ref can hardly say for sure in the short time he has to decide, given the speed, if a clash really hurt. Thus, faking is rather easy. Add to that the grave difference of (non)awarding cards and penalty kicks. Not sure, if a smoother, more continous way of dealing with perceived fouls/misbehaviour would improve the game, maybe it could discourage to provoke penalties.
Then, is it really so often, that you see a flop worthy a Pipo? Mostly, what is called diving is better termed exaggerating ( Of course, in a way a reaction to the expected habit of falling). Like when Puyol blocked Henry and both fell. Another thought, although I need to admit not following the sports or even knowing their intricacies: What's left of the several hand-football games if you take away the machismo-factor of playing through pain. HOlding up (the image of) toughness seems to me to lie at the core of these sports.

[blueguitar322]

Another American opinion...

I've always loved football/soccer, but when I try to convince friends to watch/play, the issue of diving always comes up. They cannot understand how so little contact leads to so much pain. Especially when you grow up watching rugby, aussie-rules football, american football, hockey, or basketball...

The players in rugby hit each other full-on with no pads - just like soccer players...but if you go down, you better be hurt. Even in basketball, watch a point guard trying to drive to the basket - he'll get mugged. Yes many time he'll go down, but he won't roll around on the ground, clutching his limbs. The guys on hockey manage to stay up through much more contact even though they're on ice.

I did realize at some point that because soccer is a foot-based sport, players' feet serve double-duty: controlling/passing/striking the ball as well as standing/running. This undoubtably makes for more falls as it's easier to lose your balance. Since I made this realization, it's not the falling over on a bad tackle that eats away at me, it's the writhing/acting that follows. (Though there is a definate annoyance at a player going down when he's barely touched).

My $0.02

[Gregoriak]

I hate it and the people I know hate it as well.

I think FIFA has to take the blame for a lot of the increased diving and flopping. It seems FIFA is set out to make football a no-contact-sport, with all that rigid officiating, giving yellow cards for the slightest touches etc. This automatically increases the motivation of some players to dive and play-act, as the likeliness of getting a freekick or a penalty, or a card for the opposing player, has strongly increased compared to the past.

I watch a lot of games from the 60s and 70s, and it seems to me that the less strict officiating back then was the major reason people didn't dive and play-act as much back then. There really is a striking difference to today.

[Gregoriak]

Jurgen Klinsmann brought diving to the Prem, and everyone was in uproar at his diving antics, and I'm not talking about the dives after he scored. But it's one of those things now, it's pisses us off, but not so much as it used to.


One of the first players to gain a reputation for diving was Francis Lee of Manchester City in the late-60s and easrly-70s.

[Crafty Bernardo]

Since I made this realization, it's not the falling over on a bad tackle that eats away at me, it's the writhing/acting that follows. (Though there is a definate annoyance at a player going down when he's barely touched).

My $0.02

I agree 100%... I'm not actually that offended by a guy diving after a questionable tackle when he's lost possession of the ball. I'm not a fan of it, but that's somewhat palatable & it's really tough for the officials to judge that at full speed without the advantage of instant replay that we get at home.

It's the writhing on the ground, ankle grabbing or head grabbing and basically acting out a Shakespearean Death Scene every time you leave your feet that just disgusts the hell outta me. Not everyone does it either.. It seems the South American teams (not so much Brasil, but the others) and the Italians are especially heinous at it. These guys act like they've had career ending injuries 4 or 5 times a game! And then they jog off the field after the game without the slightest limp!

the NBA often passes rulings on things that players do that weren't caught by the Refs after the game. For example, if a player grabs another player's nuts in the post & squeezes & the ref misses it (happened last season), then the league steps in after the game & announces that that player's been suspended or fined.

I'd like FIFA to do something similar and suspend a player for the next game if he has more than 1 "fake career ending injuries" in a game. You can't leave that up to the refs because they're not doctors can't really fairly determine if a guy's genuinely hurt or not. But if a guy has writhed on the ground like he's been shot 4 times during a game and afterward he's spryly running the field, obviously uninjured, then it's a reasonable assumption that the guy was faking it & he should be suspended the next game.. that would kill the fake injuries real quick, IMO.

[Crafty Bernardo]

You don't know anything about sport.

It's not that I don't know sport... It's that I don't know how Acting belongs in Sport.

To me, sport is pure & simple. It's one of the few dramas in our society that by nature actually DOESN'T involve hammy acting. The drama is real & natural. There's a standard playing surface, a standard Ball, 2 teams & some rules, now go out & compete... I don't get where the acting fits.