Hip-Hop SUCKS...straight up.

[Mel Brennan]

Is it me, or does 99% of today's hip-hop stink? I guess its the same phenomenon country music went through when it was the nation's #1 music genre.

For every authentic hip-hop artist with something to say (something worth hearing?), all the other labels, and their A&R concomitants, have to have that "type" reflected on their label; thus many artists who just SUCK begin to flesh out a larger hip-hop landscape than the genre deserves...

I guess my fellow melanin-ites are getting paid, but the music is REALLY suffering...

[Mel Brennan]

By the way, I'm not a hata. I use to DJ, and came up with nothing BUT hip-hop; the crates at Ma's house still have Sugar Hill Gang and Kurtis Blow albums...I AM hating on today's bullshit manifestation of hip-hop.

Nelly? Come on.

Where's the BDP? The P.E.?

Damn...

[JAnderson14]

There is some good stuff, but you won't find it on any mainstream outlet. People's standards are plummeting. Maybe the thread title is a little too much, but as far as what most people know as hiphop, it's true.

[skipshady]

Why Hip Hop sucks, personified:
http://www.mtv.com/shared/media/news/images/j/Ja_Rule/sq-ashanti-ja-rehearse-wi.jpg

Why there is still hope for Hip Hop, personified:
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/americasbest/profile.images/profile.roots.jpg

[tpmazembe]

"Commentating...
Illustrating...
Description giving...
Adjective expert,
Analyze the song by the musical mix,
People of the universe this is yours!"


Those where the days.

Like any other musical form, once mass appeal is reached you just have to dig deeper to get to the truth. Unfortunately my life has gotten too busy to invest the time necessary....so I fall back to my old vinyl and mix-tapes to capture the essence that was.

[Mel Brennan]

Originally posted by tpmazembe
"Commentating...
Illustrating...
Description giving...
Adjective expert,
Analyze the song by the musical mix,
People of the universe this is yours!"


"D.J. Jazzy Jay!"

Its so true; I stopped listening actively to radio (other than certain "talk" formats) years ago.

I go diggin' in the crates for some of my old mix tapes; better yet, old tapes I made of "Lady B" on Power 99 FM when it first launched in Philly...its like my sociocultural musical fix, man...

Rappin' Duke...

"Duh-ha, duh-ha...Duh ha ha ha ha ha..."

BTW skipshady, IMHO the jury's still out on The Roots; they are dope in terms of style, but what are they saying? Do they have any album, any cut, that layers a message? In my perfect hip-hop universe, they WOULD be included, but on the periphery, where an ultimate refinement of technique and image is appreciated, but certainly The Roots have issued no 21-st Century "The Message," or even a 21-st Century "Self-Destruction."

Hip-hop is missing its conscience. Until that returns, everything seems a little flaky to me.

Mugs are making ends tho'...and that's the answer you'll get if you criticize...

[skipshady]

Originally posted by Universal
BTW skipshady, IMHO the jury's still out on The Roots; they are dope in terms of style, but what are they saying? Do they have any album, any cut, that layers a message? In my perfect hip-hop universe, they WOULD be included, but on the periphery, where an ultimate refinement of technique and image is appreciated, but certainly The Roots have issued no 21-st Century "The Message," or even a 21-st Century "Self-Destruction."

Hip-hop is missing its conscience. Until that returns, everything seems a little flaky to me.I guess we're looking for different things out of great musicians. I can appreciate politics or social consciousness but I don't consider it a requirement, but that's just me.

I guess there is no equivalent of BDP or PE in today's mainstream hip hop (unless you consider Coup remotely close to mainstream).

Although I love old school, what I really miss is the energy from the mid-90's when artists like Nas, Wu-Tang, Outkast and even Jay-Z were just breaking through and bridging the gap between underground and mainstream.

[bostonsoccermdl]

Originally posted by Universal
By the way, I'm not a hata. I use to DJ, and came up with nothing BUT hip-hop; the crates at Ma's house still have Sugar Hill Gang and Kurtis Blow albums...I AM hating on today's bullshit manifestation of hip-hop.

Nelly? Come on.

Where's the BDP? The P.E.?

Damn...

There are some articulate diamonds in the rough with talent (ludicris), but I agree that labels are much too quick to jump on the $$ making bandwagon and sign crap like 50 cent.. I heard the album, and it is pure crap.. It has no business selling the #'s it is..

Some of the best rap songs are the least known ones or songs that came out before the writer "blew up.."

Ie. :Snoop Dogg's early song from the Deepcover soundtrack

[tpmazembe]

You know guys, it could just be a generation thing. Hip hop is old enough that it now has a history that is not shared by all.

The other day I've got my young cousin (17) in the convertible listening to Eric B's 'Check Out My Melody', and he says to me "Who is that?". Right then and there I realized how old I am.

Skipshady likes the mid-90's joints, so I'm guessing he's half a decade younger than I am; 'cause I swear '84-89 was the golden age. I'm guessing Universal is of my era. I'll never forget the summer of '86 and 'Rebel w/o a Pause' and 'South Bronx' bumping, in addition to countless others.

Who remembers 'Marley Scratch' with Shan:

"Since you just heard how a DJ sounds,
the name Marley Marl, I'm gonna break it down;
The M is for Master of scratch,
If the needle where to skip,
Its the needle he'll catch...."

Maybe the music has just passed us (me) by.

[Alex_1]

It is mostly generational. But I think I stopped listening to Hip-Hop at a pretty young age though - it was the mid nine-ties or so. I just don't like the music anymore and can't follow the messages. The music style just isn't for me. And as time goes no, I grow further away from it. Then again, I don't even listen to the radio these days so it's not as though I know what's on or popular anymore.

I'm sure there are the occasional good songs but for the most part, when I hear something with a hip-hop sound, the funny "orchestra" with the violin then a bogus message, I subconsciously turn the dial and insert a cd. :D

[Metros Striker10]

Why does music have to have a "message" to be considered good? I like hip-hop because it sounds good. I perfer listening to the Nelly and 50 Cent then listening to the "old school" stuff. "Old school" hip hop used the same beat, and they just rhymed. Now it has a bit more "flavor" in my opinion.

[metrocorazon]

Originally posted by Metros Striker10
Why does music have to have a "message" to be considered good? I like hip-hop because it sounds good. I perfer listening to the Nelly and 50 Cent then listening to the "old school" stuff. "Old school" hip hop used the same beat, and they just rhymed. Now it has a bit more "flavor" in my opinion.
You serious?

It was 20x more interesting before. Not all old school hip hop had a message, in fact I think it was about the same ratio as it is now. Alot of the old schoolers talked about money, women, and partying like they do now. But back in the old days the DJ actually played records and had to mix, to me it had more of an instrumental flavor, where the record and the art of DJing was just as must a part of music as an electric guitar.

Today's hip hop is mostly done all in the studio and once you get on the live stage all they do is press play. Also back in the day the artist and the culture where more connected right now how can a dude relate to someone who is living in a $10M house and has 10 cars? Yet rapping about how hard it is in the streets? Gimme a break.

I would much rather have the old hip hop culture back cause that was a much more fun and positive experience. I could remember being 5-8 years old and going down to the corner to watch people breakdance and have rap battles. Now you can't even have a rap battle without someone getting shot.

[skipshady]

Originally posted by Metros Striker10
I perfer listening to the Nelly and 50 Cent then listening to the "old school" stuff. "Old school" hip hop used the same beat, and they just rhymed. Now it has a bit more "flavor" in my opinion. Nelly? Nelly?

Rakim, Grandmaster Flash, Big Daddy Kane, Kool Herc, Afrika Bambaataa, the Sugar Hill Gang, Doug E Fresh & Slick Rick, etc etc would be flipping over in their graves if they saw this post. And if they were dead.

I am a new school head but like metrocorazon, I'd definitely take 20th Century hip hop over the sorry excuse we have now in the 21st Century.

[tpmazembe]

Originally posted by metrocorazon
You serious?

DJ actually played records and had to mix, to me it had more of an instrumental flavor, where the record and the art of DJing was just as must a part of music as an electric guitar.

I would much rather have the old hip hop culture back cause that was a much more fun and positive experience. I could remember being 5-8 years old and going down to the corner to watch people breakdance and have rap battles. Now you can't even have a rap battle without someone getting shot.

Indeed...the essence.

MetroStriker10, you should try and get a copy of the "Wild Style" video (maybe Blockbuster might have it) and check out Grand Wizard Theodore or Charlie Chase cut the beats on time with their respective crews' rhyming...its a joy to behold.

"Just two turntables and a microphone...
You'll never get the girls to leave you alone;
And if this don't work I don't know what to say...
'cause it worked for me and my partner AJ."

--- Busy B & Dj AJ (RIP) from the "Wild Style"

[bostonsoccermdl]

Originally posted by Metros Striker10
Why does music have to have a "message" to be considered good? I like hip-hop because it sounds good. I perfer listening to the Nelly and 50 Cent then listening to the "old school" stuff. "Old school" hip hop used the same beat, and they just rhymed. Now it has a bit more "flavor" in my opinion.

I dont think that it has to necessarily have a "message", but I think it should in some way be creative, or have its own style that differentiates itself from the groups of sheep out there..
I for one, am sick of hearing riffs about "poppin cris" "10 lbs of platinum" and "runnin on dubs".

An example of a good group who went down the toilet quick was Wutang clan. When their 36 chambers album came out in 1994, it was a had a catchy style with a mysterious, dark image that worked well. The music was creative and good. Once they made it big and became popular, they started selling wutang hockey jerseys through order forms in the record sleaves. They became so obsesses with making $$$, they forgot what got them to where they were to begin with, and predictably went downhill though awful solo albums and bad follow up albums..
I am not against trying to market yourself to make $$$, but they totally abadoned what made them successfull to chase the quick buck and their style and creativity suffered accordingly..

[cpwilson80]

First off, check out RjD2's "F.H.H." It could be the theme song for this discussion.

Aside from PE, I didn't really get in to rap until I went to college (I just graduated last May), and so everything was pretty much the same universe for me. As a result, I had no idea what was popular most of the time, and just gravitated towards my interests (prevented me from following the packs or coping a pose because something is too popular ;) )

I went off on this the other day to a buddy of mine, but the biggest difference I notice today is the importance of the beat placed over lyrics. In our radio climate today, if you are making a hip-hop song, it needs to play on the R&B station, the Top 40 station, and the "Mix" station. In turn, the music (I don't know whether to place the blame on the artists, the producers, the record label, the agents...) is watered down hip-pop.

You guys are right, the vitality is missing from the genre. I can't comment on what might have been mainstream or popular at the time, but when I listen to Black Steel (my all time favorite rap song) or Scenario, it sounds like Chuck D or Busta are going to jump out of the stereo. These two songs are about polar opposites in terms of the message, but regardless, both have the urgency in the flow like what they're saying is so important you should stop everything and listen. Although guys like Rakim are more laid back, there is still have the utter confidence in his flow where I listen in.

Look at what's popular today. Busta, Jay-Z and Eminem are the only ones that come to mind that can actually rap (not rhyme, HUGE difference.)Snoop, though I love him, doesn't have the greatest variety, Ludacris and DMX take one word and throw it at the end of each line 4 times, and I don't even want to start with Nelly.

I find myself drawn to the late 80s, early to mid 90s stuff, and then under-the-radar (not sure if it is entirelly underground) stuff from today. Blackalicious is one of my favorites, and same with Mr. Lif and J5. They have the total package for me: good beats, smooth flows and more often than not, something to say.

One of the best things to do (which helped me tons with the older stuff) is pick up a DJing CD, and then track down all the breaks. It opens up an new era of music, and if people are using the beats to make music today, chances are it stood the test of time.

[Mel Brennan]

Originally posted by tpmazembe
Indeed...the essence.

MetroStriker10, you should try and get a copy of the "Wild Style" video (maybe Blockbuster might have it) and check out Grand Wizard Theodore or Charlie Chase cut the beats on time with their respective crews' rhyming...its a joy to behold.

"Just two turntables and a microphone...
You'll never get the girls to leave you alone;
And if this don't work I don't know what to say...
'cause it worked for me and my partner AJ."

--- Busy B & Dj AJ (RIP) from the "Wild Style"

Funny, and sad; Fab Five Freddy and Co. had to go to Europe to get funding to produce "Wild Style"...American companies saw no value in hip-hop...now they're all swingin on "deez nuuutz..."

[655321]

What about Mobb Deep?? I remember "The Infamous" being the best hip hop album in years. Haven't heard "Infamy" yet, though.

[skipshady]

Originally posted by 655321
What about Mobb Deep?? I remember "The Infamous" being the best hip hop album in years. Haven't heard "Infamy" yet, though. Honestly, I haven't listened to the album in years, but I didn't think the rest of the album was as nearly as good as the two singles, "Shook Ones" and "Survival Of The Fittest".
Last I heard of them, "Quiet Storm" sounded like they were trying to do "Shook Ones Part VII".

Nas, on the other hand, has made a pretty decent rebound after several mediocre albums, despite signing with Murder Inc. It seems that Jay-Z's "Takeover" (best Jay-Z track in many, many years) woke him up and he put out some of his best material since "Illmatic".

[655321]

Originally posted by skipshady
Honestly, I haven't listened to the album in years, but I didn't think the rest of the album was as nearly as good as the two singles, "Shook Ones" and "Survival Of The Fittest".

I'm listening to it right now and pretty much all of the tracks stand out on their own. The beats and productions are just ridiculously good.