Had a flat tire

[Dan Loney]

Which is why I've been away all day. Did you miss me? Did you? Awww. I missed you, too.

Here's what's bugging me about the Patrick Vieira non-goal against Korea. The camera angle everyone thought was definitive - well, I'm not sold. I asked Mr. Tyzik, the famous Canadian expert in spatial analysis and optical perception, about how different angles, especially in a two-dimensional medium such as television, might affect how the brain processes visual information. He replied, "I'M CRUSHING YOUR HEAD! I'M CRUSHING YOUR HEAD! You're a FLATHEAD!"

Point being. Why wasn't there a camera set up on the goal line? That's like a bank not having a security camera pointed at the teller window. Yes, I know we don't want replays used in the game, because human error is a part of soccer just like life. But if we're going to damn the Koreans as lucky cheaters and the referees as incompetent buffoons, the least we can do is have some evidence handy.

I was on the FIFA site, looking for a better video angle on that goal - go figure, FIFA doesn't have a separate section for "Why our referees are hideous" - when one of their ads flashed, "Can a goal be scored directly from a kickoff?" This reminded me of my favorite football trivia quiz question, from George MacDonald Fraser's "McAuslan in the Rough." Which I will now inflict on you:

A team scores three consecutive goals without their opponents touching the ball. How is this possible?

[dirtskier]

hello microchip.

[n4100]

Two own goals followed by either a goal for that same team or another own goal, thereby having that team score 3 goals.

[Dan Loney]

Nope. Gotta kick the ball forward on a kickoff. Can't have two own goals in a row. (The kinetic energy required to propel a ball off the woodwork of one goal and ricochet clear across the field into the other goal would destroy the ball, or the woodwork, or the audience's suspension of disbelief. We obey the laws of physics in this blog.)

[djwalker]

A team scores three consecutive goals without their opponents touching the ball. How is this possible?

A forfeit goes down as a 3-0 win. Is that it?

[rtung]

Nope. Gotta kick the ball forward on a kickoff. Can't have two own goals in a row. (The kinetic energy required to propel a ball off the woodwork of one goal and ricochet clear across the field into the other goal would destroy the ball, or the woodwork, or the audience's suspension of disbelief. We obey the laws of physics in this blog.)

Yes you can. Player kicks to teammate who passes back (as you see in all kickoffs) to player who passes back to player who scores own goal. Repeat twice.

[Nitrain00]

A forfeit goes down as a 3-0 win. Is that it?

No, because "consecutive" implies a series of events and a forfeit resulting in a 3-0 win would be a single event.

[Ismitje]

My wife and I both appreciate the Kids in the Hall reference - we pulled out the Tyzic Magic against Italy on Saturday towards the end of the game, and it seemed to help.

http://newwinnipeg.com/images/kidsinthehall-mark-mckinney.jpg

[n4100]

Yes you can. Player kicks to teammate who passes back (as you see in all kickoffs) to player who passes back to player who scores own goal. Repeat twice.
Thank you.

[lotharis1]

My wife and I both appreciate the Kids in the Hall reference - we pulled out the Tyzic Magic against Italy on Saturday towards the end of the game, and it seemed to help.

http://newwinnipeg.com/images/kidsinthehall-mark-mckinney.jpgglad I'm not the only one who was thinking that...

as far as the riddle goes...

it could only happen if it was a really windy day in which the ball was placed down on the spot by the referee, and blew into the other teams net somehow... I don't see it as possible... unless the kick-off itself does not count as a touch since the ball is not yet in play....

but about the topic of the thread...

I have no idea why they couldn't have pinhole cameras installed on the inside of the posts... or sensors which picked up the skin of the ball (should it be dusted with some metalic substance... and could say when the ball entirely crossed the line

as far as that "non-goal" goes...

I didn't believe the ball crossed the line entirely... from the angle you see on TV... it seems as if the guy is way in the net... but then you look at his feet... and his feet are only a foot or less into the net... and the keepers hand which stps the ball is sitting just in front of his knee... plus he is wearing keepers gloves, which are about an inch or two thick themselves themselves... given that a ball is nearly that wide... I would say it was stopped just before crossing the line... obviously there has to be a better way to find evidence...

but the way to put the discussion to rest, is to score more and better goals... so there is no question...

a team like france, with Henry, Trezeguet, Wiltford, Zizzou, Ribery, Govou, etc. should be able to have scored more than 1 goal in the past 2 world cups...

although it should be noted that even when winning their championship in 98... the final against Brazil was the only match they scored 3 goals or more (other than the group phase matches against Saudi Arabia and South Africa which don't count as World Cup calibur teams in my oppinion)... in the elimination rounds this was their record... (0:0, 0:0) 1:0 aet over Paraguay, (0:0, 0:0) 0:0 aet 4-3 PK's over Italy, (0:0) 2-1 over Croatia, and then Brazil 3-0 in the final... which only breaks down to an average of 1 goal every 80+ minutes....(in between Petit's game winning goal over Denmark in the 3rd group phase match and the goal in the start of the second half to go even with Croatia they had scored 1 goal in 314 minutes, the golden goal against Paraguay)

I still say the only way to be sure, is to thread the twine numerous times... take your destiny out of the refs hands and at your teams feet...

[lotharis1]

Yes you can. Player kicks to teammate who passes back (as you see in all kickoffs) to player who passes back to player who scores own goal. Repeat twice. then their opponents would have touched it, wouldn't they...

need to pay a little more attention to the riddle...

"A team scores three consecutive goals without their opponents touching the ball. How is this possible?"

[szazzy]

Own goal, score a goal. Halftime. Kick-off to same team again. Goal.

[dark knight]

then their opponents would have touched it, wouldn't they...

need to pay a little more attention to the riddle...

"A team scores three consecutive goals without their opponents touching the ball. How is this possible?"

Why would they have to have touched it? Score an own goal and you kick off again.

[IRguy]

Here's what's bugging me about the Patrick Vieira non-goal against Korea. The camera angle everyone thought was definitive - well, I'm not sold. I asked Mr. Tyzik, the famous Canadian expert in spatial analysis and optical perception, about how different angles, especially in a two-dimensional medium such as television, might affect how the brain processes visual information.

I'm with you on this there is no good angel to judge the spot of the ball in relationship to the goal line. In fact, if I remember correctly the best angle was one that was well above the field but was right on the line. The problem is this angle does not clearly show it one way or the other. When you look at the play in real time, at least to me, it looks like a clean save and since there where no Frenchman jumping around scream for a goal after the play I would have to say if the ball did cross the line it do so for about 0.00010 of a sec. If that’s the case there noway for the naked eye to judge it with any certainty if it was a goal or not. Therefore, it was correctly called a non-goal. Personally, I think the media is just playing this up for the controversy factor and nothing else.

[lotharis1]

Why would they have to have touched it? Score an own goal and you kick off again. Who exactly would be doing this kickoff.... said opponents...

"A team scores three consecutive goals without their opponents touching the ball. How is this possible?"

if they score... their opponents touch the ball... on the kickoff...

if you score an own goal... it doesnt count as a goal for your team dude... the team that scores the own goal is at 0 goals otherwise you could just infitinitely put it in your own net... and the riddle wouldn't be limmited to 3...

i think mr. szazzy is on the right track
Own goal, score a goal. Halftime. Kick-off to same team again. Goal. although, again... I believe the own goal doesn't count for your team... so the team would have to score 3 goals, not one team with 1 goal and another team with 2 goals with only 1 team touching the ball....

although say this scenario played out with team A starting out down by 2 goals to team B, and Team A scores a goal right as the half-time whistle blows... then they come back out from the locker-rooms with Team A having the the kickoff... and Team A dominates the play for the entire second half, preventing Team B from touching the ball once, and then repeats the feat of the first half, by leveling the match on a goal as the final whistle blows... and the match was an elimination round match... so it went to extra time to decide it, and Team A won the coin-flip, took the kick-off, and then went down and scored... that's 3 goals without the opposing team touching the ball... highly unlikely scenario though...

[dark knight]

Who exactly would be doing this kickoff.... said opponents...

"A team scores three consecutive goals without their opponents touching the ball. How is this possible?"

if they score... their opponents touch the ball... on the kickoff...

if you score an own goal... it doesnt count as a goal for your team dude... the team that scores the own goal is at 0 goals otherwise you could just infitinitely put it in your own net... and the riddle wouldn't be limmited to 3...

No where does it say the team has to score on the other team. 3 own goals qualifies as "a team scores three consecutive goals without their opponents touching the ball".

[Dan Loney]

Own goal, score a goal. Halftime. Kick-off to same team again. Goal.This was the one I was after.

I might conceivably have botched the question. Good thing I wasn't giving away anything as a prize.

I did botch the question, damn it. Same PLAYER touches the ball, scores three goals. Mea maxima culpa.

[stanleyt]

Which is why I've been away all day. Did you miss me? Did you? Awww. I missed you, too.



Money, all will be forgiven if you can end each blog with this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g61CGsWBhJo&search=james%20brown%20night :D

Yes, I miss the ol' radio show.

[libero14]

speaking of which ...

I've seen replays of 1966 Geoff Hurst goal -- the most famous "did it cross the line"? goal ever. I've always wondered: what defines the line?

I mean, heck there's a stripe on the field that must be 10cm wide. and the goal posts don't exactly fit into a plane either. So it the "line" considered to be the outward-most plane of the 10cm stripe? Or the center of the 10cm stripe? Or the inward-most plane (closest to the net) of the 10cm stripe?

If I recall correctly, the whole ball must cross the line. So where exactly do they define the "Plane" that they call "the line" ?

I can't say whether Viera or Hurst's were goals, without more info and further reviews.

Cool

L

[jefbal99]

Who exactly would be doing this kickoff.... said opponents...

"A team scores three consecutive goals without their opponents touching the ball. How is this possible?"

if they score... their opponents touch the ball... on the kickoff...

if you score an own goal... it doesnt count as a goal for your team dude... the team that scores the own goal is at 0 goals otherwise you could just infitinitely put it in your own net... and the riddle wouldn't be limmited to 3...

i think mr. szazzy is on the right track
although, again... I believe the own goal doesn't count for your team... so the team would have to score 3 goals, not one team with 1 goal and another team with 2 goals with only 1 team touching the ball....

although say this scenario played out with team A starting out down by 2 goals to team B, and Team A scores a goal right as the half-time whistle blows... then they come back out from the locker-rooms with Team A having the the kickoff... and Team A dominates the play for the entire second half, preventing Team B from touching the ball once, and then repeats the feat of the first half, by leveling the match on a goal as the final whistle blows... and the match was an elimination round match... so it went to extra time to decide it, and Team A won the coin-flip, took the kick-off, and then went down and scored... that's 3 goals without the opposing team touching the ball... highly unlikely scenario though...

An own goal is credited to the person that put it in the net, but it still counts for the offensive team at that time. I may put the ball in my own net, but my opponnets still get a knock up on the board.