Yellow Cards & Red Cards - Pablo Mastroeni featured

[TimB4Last]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/19/AR2006061901634.html

Online version is apparently different than print edition, so I'll try to supplement.

Print edition has a photo feature with five players pictured as the "Five Costliest Suspensions"

1) Zidane (France)
2) Mastroeni (USA)
3) Muntari (Ghana)
4) Ujfalusi (CZE)
5) De Rossi (Italy)

Defining costliest as 'having greatest effect' probably explains why 4 of 5 players are in our group, one of the few groups where both remaining games are significant and the final standings are very much in doubt.

Still, Zidane hasn't shown me much; Ghana has another key suspension; and everyone's been saying that De Rossi is quite easily replaceable, so I don't know.

But the general theme of the piece is that disciplinary cards have been plentiful this WC, continuing a generally upward trend. This year's data only includes the two first-round matches/team, of course.

Tunisia has received 10 yellow cards so far; Spain only 2.

[zico82]

Anybody see the foul against Ballack in the Ecuador game? Much worse than Maestro's. Guy didn't come anywhere near the ball and got ALL of Ballack's ankle.

Yellow card.

[Diomedes]

Anybody see the foul against Ballack in the Ecuador game? Much worse than Maestro's. Guy didn't come anywhere near the ball and got ALL of Ballack's ankle.

Yellow card.

Yup, I thought the exact same thing. No way that's a yellow and Mastro sees red.

[flyerhawk]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/19/AR2006061901634.html

Online version is apparently different than print edition, so I'll try to supplement.

Print edition has a photo feature with five players pictured as the "Five Costliest Suspensions"

1) Zidane (France)


Yes but what they didn't say was that the Zidane yellow was the costliest to the French OPPOSITION as the French may actually show a little creativity and pace.

[Chowderhead]

Inevitably horrific and infernal, battle among soldiers is redeemed by governance of natural law which is itself tempered by our Christian instincts. It has been my good fortune, in an otherwise cruel though necessary profession, not to have been restrained by the authority of presumably impartial human arbitration, so often cynical and itself governed by mere whimsy.

[speedynuggett]

Inevitably horrific and infernal, battle among soldiers is redeemed by governance of natural law which is itself tempered by our Christian instincts. It has been my good fortune, in an otherwise cruel though necessary profession, not to have been restrained by the authority of presumably impartial human arbitration, so often cynical and itself governed by mere whimsy.

Does anybody know what happened to Chowderhead? He must have snapped when he crossed that Mason-Dixon line. Or was it JOB's hair that drove him over the edge? :D

[MassachusettsRef]

Yup, I thought the exact same thing. No way that's a yellow and Mastro sees red.I concur. Though, I think they are both textbook red cards and that the referee today is the one that got it wrong. I know many US fans would disagree.

[TimB4Last]

I concur. Though, I think they are both textbook red cards and that the referee today is the one that got it wrong. I know many US fans would disagree.

Haven't seen today's foul, but if it was worse than PM's a direct red was warranted.

I don't know if this sort of thing still happens - obviously not at the pro level - but I was reminded of my own high school playing days ...

Before the games began, the referee would call (not just the team captains but) all the players on both teams to the center circle for a 1-minute review of 'carding basics.' I remember that the yellow card would be drawn - sometimes with great ceremony - and shown to all those assembled.

"Here's your warning," the ref would say. "If I see any deliberate fouls, any intent to injure an opposing player, any reckless tackles likely to injure another player, or any late challenges on the goalkeeper," I'll be keeping the yellow card in my pocket (puts away yellow) and pulling out the red card without hesitation (waves red card for effect)."

Probably only took 30 seconds, actually, but it was a good (immediately pre-game) reminder that an important part of the ref's job was to protect the players. And player protection is important at the WC level as well.

Mastroeni's tackle was plenty reckless - he had a pretty long run up and plenty of momentum - and could have resulted in serious injury. I don't think he has a very strong argument.

[garbaggio]

What time of game was the Ecuadorean foul on Ballack (I've got it on tape)?

I'm with Mass Ref in believing the red card on Mastro was deserved, even if his foul was less horrific than De Rossi's elbow.

And I agree with whoever posted that Zidane's suspension might be good for France. He was gassed before halftime and could use the rest while the French may be more willing to exploit their (potentially) good flank players.

[superdave]

Anybody see the foul against Ballack in the Ecuador game? Much worse than Maestro's. Guy didn't come anywhere near the ball and got ALL of Ballack's ankle.

Yellow card.
Check the link in my sig. We have a whole thread dedicated to this. Massref, there's a buttload of refs who are "missing" this particular call.

Including the guy who tossed Mastroenni.

People can write till they're blue in the face that that was a good red card, but since every match has at least one similar foul that results in a yellow, and nobody can point to a similar play in this cup that has drawn a red, they're full of crap. In a good, pure sort of way.

[zico82]

I concur. Though, I think they are both textbook red cards and that the referee today is the one that got it wrong. I know many US fans would disagree.

Well, the ref "got it wrong" in the Brazil-Austrailia game too when Ronaldo was fouled. The defender deliberately planted his cleats right on Ronaldo's shin. Absolutely zero effort to get the ball (not within 3 feet of it).
Don't even think there was a yellow on the play.

Apparently, the the vast majority of refs in the cup don't subcribe to your version of the "red card textbook". The US was unlucky to have gotten a ref that does.

[Celo's Bicycle]

Haven't seen today's foul, but if it was worse than PM's a direct red was warranted.

I don't know if this sort of thing still happens - obviously not at the pro level - but I was reminded of my own high school playing days ...

Before the games began, the referee would call (not just the team captains but) all the players on both teams to the center circle for a 1-minute review of 'carding basics.' I remember that the yellow card would be drawn - sometimes with great ceremony - and shown to all those assembled.

"Here's your warning," the ref would say. "If I see any deliberate fouls, any intent to injure an opposing player, any reckless tackles likely to injure another player, or any late challenges on the goalkeeper," I'll be keeping the yellow card in my pocket (puts away yellow) and pulling out the red card without hesitation (waves red card for effect)."

Probably only took 30 seconds, actually, but it was a good (immediately pre-game) reminder that an important part of the ref's job was to protect the players. And player protection is important at the WC level as well.

Mastroeni's tackle was plenty reckless - he had a pretty long run up and plenty of momentum - and could have resulted in serious injury. I don't think he has a very strong argument.

In my playing days, Pablo's tackle was almost never a red. It would only have been a red if there was a strong indication of an intent to injure, rather than the player just mistiming a tackle. For example if it was clearly payback for something that had happened earlier, and the ref understood that, it might have been red.

[luftmensch]

Yes but what they didn't say was that the Zidane yellow was the costliest to the French OPPOSITION as the French may actually show a little creativity and pace.
Ouch! (I thought the same thing, Henry unleashed!)

[forza inter]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/19/AR2006061901634.html

Online version is apparently different than print edition, so I'll try to supplement.

Print edition has a photo feature with five players pictured as the "Five Costliest Suspensions"

1) Zidane (France)
2) Mastroeni (USA)
3) Muntari (Ghana)
4) Ujfalusi (CZE)
5) De Rossi (Italy)

Defining costliest as 'having greatest effect' probably explains why 4 of 5 players are in our group, one of the few groups where both remaining games are significant and the final standings are very much in doubt.

Still, Zidane hasn't shown me much; Ghana has another key suspension; and everyone's been saying that De Rossi is quite easily replaceable, so I don't know.

But the general theme of the piece is that disciplinary cards have been plentiful this WC, continuing a generally upward trend. This year's data only includes the two first-round matches/team, of course.

Tunisia has received 10 yellow cards so far; Spain only 2.

anyone else notice 4/5 of those players are from OUR group?? that is pretty ineresting.

forza inter

[GaetjensGhost]

Anybody see the foul against Ballack in the Ecuador game? Much worse than Maestro's. Guy didn't come anywhere near the ball and got ALL of Ballack's ankle.

Yellow card.


Pablo got ALL of Pirlo's ankle...It was a classic T-Bone collision. Couldve been called either way...who cares....we cant change it.....

[TimB4Last]

Pablo got ALL of Pirlo's ankle...It was a classic T-Bone collision. Couldve been called either way...who cares....we cant change it.....

Here's the PM tackle - not sure how long the link will continue to show it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJCJKLSIUyE&eurl=

[Bellus Ludas]

I concur. Though, I think they are both textbook red cards and that the referee today is the one that got it wrong. I know many US fans would disagree.

OK, first off no offense...really...I think that referees do the best that they can with what they have....and unfortunately MOST referees have never played at the level they officiate.

This kills me because there is no way that Pope or Pablo deserved the red cards. THE rule that governs ALL rules in soccer is the "Spirit of the Game." When the game is governed with the black and white confines of "this rule says..." the game is lost. The Spirit of the Game allows the grey areas that make soccer the most intriquing game on the planet. The referees that get this and stay consistent are wonderful, the ones who don't...or won't ruin the game.

If you haven't played at the level, it's hard to understand the "Spirit of the Game." I have a lot of time for referees who ask questions and want to learn..Essi B is a great example...unfortunately my time in soccer has introduced me to a lot of referees that are so insecure they have the do the totalitarian - Al Haig - I'm in control bit.

It's hard to argue with Beckenbaur...he saw the officiating for what it was and called a spade a spade. Time for FIFA to get a clue. Becks for FIFA President...or at least High Commander of Referees:)

[Craig P]

What time of game was the Ecuadorean foul on Ballack (I've got it on tape)?
I saw one in the first ten minutes that might have been the reference. Unfortunately, they didn't really replay it, so it was impossible for me to get a good look at the contact. One difference that jumped to mind immediately was the amount of force -- Pablo's was significantly harder.

(This is probably as good a place as any to mention something related: I've seen a couple of people now claim that every game has at least one tackle comparable to Pablo's. That's wildly inaccurate. Studs-exposed tackles into the ankle are relatively rare, to the point that I don't recall seeing any aside from the debatable ECU-GER foul on Ballack in any of the games I've watched since.)

[KMJvet]

(This is probably as good a place as any to mention something related: I've seen a couple of people now claim that every game has at least one tackle comparable to Pablo's. That's wildly inaccurate. Studs-exposed tackles into the ankle are relatively rare, to the point that I don't recall seeing any aside from the debatable ECU-GER foul on Ballack in any of the games I've watched since.)

Comparable to Pablo's in red card worthiness. They don't have to be exactly the same. Several are higher and later and often worse in terms of their dangerous nature and certain in terms of their intent...I'd say one per game is pretty accurate. Some games none, but made up for in games with two or more. There were two in Italy's first game. Van Bommel has had at least two without any considertion to the rest of his team, just by way of examples.