Titi choked again?

[martymarts]

Now I'll admit to not seeing the whole game, but, what I did sees makes me think there is a big lack of harmony in the French camp? Raymond you should have picked Super Bob for the squad. He'd've done the business both games; and is Bartez your butt buddy, I can't see any other reason to pick him?

So to the real topic, and no apology for starting it up again, but more than ever, I believe TH14 chokes in big games; at least I think he's choked more times than he's delivered the goods at the very highest level? I still want him at Arsenal and still think he's one of the best 5 players on the planet, but, he doesn't seem to have the kahoonas/killer instinct of an Alan Shearer or Shevchenko?

The ball Zidane played through to him on 86 mins was on a plate and Titi failed to bury it. I was right back to Paris and to the chance he choked on after 75mins. If he'd put that one away Barca were dead, if he'd done the business today France are effectively into the next round. TH14 is a phenominal player, but, if you are to be judged as one of the greats then the level of expectation is uncompromising. Sure Pele, Cruyff, Maradonna must've all had bad days at the office, but, more often than not, they gave of their best when it really mattered. For me Titi falls short of this temprementally.

He's got at least one more world cup in him and I really hope experience enables him to show the World what Arsenal fans see him capable of week in and week out.

Come on you Titi?

[mixmastermatt]

In the world cup Titi looks like the only one who cares. He is making the runs and attempting to get past people but his team mates and coach are fu cking useless. He scored one today, had a good chance saved and made plenty off the ball runs which Ribery (who I am hugely unimpressed by) and Zidane fail to notice.

Henry has gone missing in big games coz he likes to hang off and have a sulk.... (RE: Last 20 mins of the Champions League final).

P.S. lets have a wager on how long till Teso comes wading in here with his size 3's.

[yossarian]

Now I'll admit to not seeing the whole game, but, what I did sees makes me think there is a big lack of harmony in the French camp? Raymond you should have picked Super Bob for the squad. He'd've done the business both games; and is Bartez your butt buddy, I can't see any other reason to pick him?

So to the real topic, and no apology for starting it up again, but more than ever, I believe TH14 chokes in big games; at least I think he's choked more times than he's delivered the goods at the very highest level? I still want him at Arsenal and still think he's one of the best 5 players on the planet, but, he doesn't seem to have the kahoonas/killer instinct of an Alan Shearer or Shevchenko?

The ball Zidane played through to him on 86 mins was on a plate and Titi failed to bury it. I was right back to Paris and to the chance he choked on after 75mins. If he'd put that one away Barca were dead, if he'd done the business today France are effectively into the next round. TH14 is a phenominal player, but, if you are to be judged as one of the greats then the level of expectation is uncompromising. Sure Pele, Cruyff, Maradonna must've all had bad days at the office, but, more often than not, they gave of their best when it really mattered. For me Titi falls short of this temprementally.

He's got at least one more world cup in him and I really hope experience enables him to show the World what Arsenal fans see him capable of week in and week out.

Come on you Titi?

Yawn. I've forgotten.....remind me what Shevchenko and Shearer have done in World Cup play.

[antifan]

Yawn. I've forgotten.....remind me what Shevchenko and Shearer have done in World Cup play.
Same goes for Landon Donovan. ;)

[Postman is a Prophet]

another thing to consider is this: the chokes only matter when Henry's team doesn't win. If anyone else on France had given a $hit today and maybe snuck another one past Korea, I doubt we'd be talking about Henry in the 86th. Similarly, if...oh, I don't know, Wenger made subs at the right time and we didn't massively f*ck up that champions league final, I doubt we'd be thinking about Henry's chance (which wasn't even that good to begin with, IMO).

[shincan]

Furthermore, I'm not convinced that France's current "system" plays to Henry's strengths. I only got to watch 1/2 of today's game, however....

Here's some admittedly goofy support for my notion, from The Guardian:

"am utterly flabbergasted that they have not reverted to 4-4-2, having created absolutely nothing against Switzerland with this 4-2-3-1 system. And here's why: that system depends on Henry being fed by Zidane in the hole (not in the erotic feed-me-strawberries-tenderly-while-sat-naked-on-lap sense), and according to Mike Adamson, the two have played together 54 times for France, and ZIDANE HAS NEVER, EVER CREATED A GOAL FOR HENRY. FACT. That is a pretty remarkable stat, even if you do have a life, and especially if you don't. "

[Its only Ray Parlour]

:rolleyes: The jingoists are out in force once again.

Now I'll admit to not seeing the whole game...

When a posts starts out like this you know it's going down hill fast.

Message to France. When a player scores your first World Cup goal away from home soil in 20 years, its probably best not to try and sit on it for the remaining 85 minutes of the match.

[KevTheGooner]

Who gives a ******** how Henry does for France? Are you French?

[elknco1]

wiltord has also played like crap in the last 2 games. notice how his assist to henry was only a good pass after the pass deflected off the korean defender. if it hadn't i'm sure it would have been behind henry. plus he's constantly losing the ball. they don't have anyone better than wiltord?

and ribery to arsenal? no thanks.

and that ball in the 86th minute was probably the last pass from zidane to henry ever. too bad he couldn't hit it :(

[gunnerdude11]

wiltord has also played like crap in the last 2 games. notice how his assist to henry was only a good pass after the pass deflected off the korean defender. if it hadn't i'm sure it would have been behind henry. plus he's constantly losing the ball. they don't have anyone better than wiltord?

and ribery to arsenal? no thanks.

and that ball in the 86th minute was probably the last pass from zidane to henry ever. too bad he couldn't hit it :(

The problem with French football is that Domenech still is trying to have the game go through Zidane in the middle. Zidane is too old to be playing such a pivotal role in the world cup. He is a shadow of his former self. The style Arsenal that plays with allows Henry to flourish while at the French national team he looks kinda lost. The French did not finish this game and the Koreans got very lucky. I mean Ji Sung Park had to swat that ball out of the air then have Bathez get just enough finger on it to lift it over Gallas and into the back of the net.

As for Ribery, the whole tempo of the game turned when he came on (for Wiltord mind you). He was the only on who would make run's as the French team essentially shut down. IMO he would dazzle in the Arsenal system of play and I hope that the French team craps out so his price stays low.

[Skizz]

and ribery to arsenal? no thanks.


Ribery has already signed for Lyon allegedly, so that is done and dusted.

Ribery comes to "Lyon agreement" (http://home.skysports.com/list.asp?hlid=394642&plid=41166&clid=144&cpid=24)

[Miles Brasher]

Now I'll admit to not seeing the whole game, but, what I did sees makes me think there is a big lack of harmony in the French camp? Raymond you should have picked Super Bob for the squad. He'd've done the business both games; and is Bartez your butt buddy, I can't see any other reason to pick him?

So to the real topic, and no apology for starting it up again, but more than ever, I believe TH14 chokes in big games; at least I think he's choked more times than he's delivered the goods at the very highest level? I still want him at Arsenal and still think he's one of the best 5 players on the planet, but, he doesn't seem to have the kahoonas/killer instinct of an Alan Shearer or Shevchenko?

The ball Zidane played through to him on 86 mins was on a plate and Titi failed to bury it. I was right back to Paris and to the chance he choked on after 75mins. If he'd put that one away Barca were dead, if he'd done the business today France are effectively into the next round. TH14 is a phenominal player, but, if you are to be judged as one of the greats then the level of expectation is uncompromising. Sure Pele, Cruyff, Maradonna must've all had bad days at the office, but, more often than not, they gave of their best when it really mattered. For me Titi falls short of this temprementally.

He's got at least one more world cup in him and I really hope experience enables him to show the World what Arsenal fans see him capable of week in and week out.

Come on you Titi?

He played well and scored a goal. France played for the 1-0, and Henry didn't get much of the ball in the 2nd half, but he had some v.good touches. When he got the ball on the left, he typically had 3 players on him. When he went over to the right he got little service.
Putting him in the same category as Pele, Cruyff, and Maradona is a little harsh. These are arguably the 3 greatest attacking players of the last 50 years.
Henry has had as good or better a world cup as Ronaldinho, Shevchenko, Owen, Ronaldo...

[martymarts]

Pele, Cruyff, and Maradona is a little harsh. These are arguably the 3 greatest attacking players of the last 50 years. Does it matter if he had a good game if, when the sh1t hits the fan and, whoever he's playing for, he needs to come through, but, he chokes? Seems to happen alot? I know I've made this argument before, but, there's more evidence now!

Basically I'm saying, 'Okay, it's a leap to put him up against the 3 players I've mentioned, but, if he didn't have a tendancy to choke he could well have won World player of the year 3 or 4 times by now?'

So either he's a player who is doing what he's capable of, which means forget about comparing him to the greats, or yes he should be compared with the very best; which means the harshest level of judgement, and at that rarefied level, imho, he falls short; but only by a little bit;)

I mentioned Shearer and Sheva, not because they are better goal scorers, but, I just picked a couple of players off the top of my head who seem more ruthless and perhaps more determined at those flash point moments. perhaps I picked the wrong examples?

[JCGooner]

While I agree in general with the idea that Thierry does'nt show up for the big games and have posted about this previously on this forum, using Shearer as an example of someone who did is laughable, amongst his 350 or so goals, I can't remember one truly big one that won anything for club or country. I don't think there is a more overated player than him.. in England and amongst the English there is a reverence for him that is totaly OTT and not shared by most fans of other leagues or national teams - the fact that he was a dirty cheating fuc&er does'nt help him either.

[Miles Brasher]

Does it matter if he had a good game if, when the sh1t hits the fan and, whoever he's playing for, he needs to come through, but, he chokes? Seems to happen alot? I know I've made this argument before, but, there's more evidence now!

Basically I'm saying, 'Okay, it's a leap to put him up against the 3 players I've mentioned, but, if he didn't have a tendancy to choke he could well have won World player of the year 3 or 4 times by now?'

So either he's a player who is doing what he's capable of, which means forget about comparing him to the greats, or yes he should be compared with the very best; which means the harshest level of judgement, and at that rarefied level, imho, he falls short; but only by a little bit;)

I mentioned Shearer and Sheva, not because they are better goal scorers, but, I just picked a couple of players off the top of my head who seem more ruthless and perhaps more determined at those flash point moments. perhaps I picked the wrong examples?


Henry is a great player, Pele etc. were the greatest of the greatest. I don't know anyone of Henry's generation that is consistantly better than him. Ronaldinho is on a similar level, but he has off days too..

[antifan]

Henry is a great player, Pele etc. were the greatest of the greatest. I don't know anyone of Henry's generation that is consistantly better than him. Ronaldinho is on a similar level, but he has off days too..
Ronaldinho has amazing skills, but has he ever put up the kind of numbers that Henry has for the last 5 or so years?

[Martin Daoust]

Yes, and Pele Choked when Gordon Banks denied him the goal he'd turned to celebrate. The keeper was alert came off his line and made himself remarkably big and closed quickly so he was even tougher to shot over or wide of(something our own keeper did fail to do against Wanchope a week ago tbh).

Come on. The only real choker out there was Barthez on the equaliser and almost spectacularly again minutes later. THAT would have been something to see...

[Dooglas]

yea watch gallas on koreas goal...he didnt even try.

[NSadhu]

If FIFA had any balls they would have placed refs on the goal line or instituted the use of goal line technology, which they recently used at the youth championships. Vieira scored a good goal and was denied by the hysterical atmosphere and pace that is the WC. Had the French complained right away, maybe the decision would have gone to the linesman.

No doubt Henry could and probably should have finished the chance in the 2nd half, but you have to give some credit to the keeper as it was a fine save. What amazes me is that Domenech insists on using a 4-5-1 and running everything to a player is well past his prime. Every single ball went through Zidane, who only slows the pace of the game. Wiltord didn't offer that much on the wing, and Malouda is a left-half at best, not a winger. Wenger's 4-5-1 offers Henry at least 4 attacking options, including Ljungberg, Reyes, Cesc, and Hleb. So if you look at France, they only have 2 behind him, Zidane and Wiltord. It's easy to point at Henry and say "oh, he missed another good chance", but with so much talent sitting on the bench, he shouldn't be the one to blame. It's their lousy manager. Saha, Trez, Govou, all these guys should be considered as starters. Put Saha and/or Govou on the wings, and Trez up top. Anything. The game against Togo should be a walk in the park, especially with Zidane on the bench.

Not that it needs to be said, but the reason a lot of us are pulling for France to do well is because of the whole Arsenal contigent, past and present. Too many to name. They dared to beat Brazil in '98, which gives the past few World Cups a different look. I don't know about anyone else, but it's boring if Brazil is favorite every time. Their first two group games is evidence enough.

[KevTheGooner]

The only real choker out there was Barthez on the equaliser and almost spectacularly again minutes later. THAT would have been something to see...


He really did flap at that first one. Maybe he thought the air from his flapping mitts would fan the ball over the bar.