Lionel Messi & Wayne Rooney

[Dark Savante]

When was the last time two youngsters had such an impact on the world game from the get-go of their careers?

Rooney was propelled straight to the top after his debut goal against Arsenal, after which it was his temprament that could be questioned but not once could his ability be questioned. You wont find many who won't say he's one of the best players in the world.

Messi hasn't even been active for a full season yet. He's already being called one of the best in the world and is actually making great teams even better when he plays.

How odd is this? Moreover, how rare is it? I'm trying to think back to the last time two potential all-timers emerge within a year or two of each other and lit up the stages they have been on from the off? I'm struggling as well.

Any ideas?

Please don't mention clearly inferior types. Stellar only.

[Bertje]

Well, it's not that rare for all-timers to come in packs.

But these are two potential all-timers who started playing in big leagues, which gives them more attention and where they can show how good they already are.

Van Basten and Rijkaard made their debut within two years and for the same team (!), but played in a smaller league. They too were on top of the Dutch league already when they made their debut, but didn't have the opportunity to show what impact they would have in the English or Spanish league.

[Dark Savante]

Well, it's not that rare for all-timers to come in packs.

But these are two potential all-timers who started playing in big leagues, which gives them more attention and where they can show how good they already are.

Van Basten and Rijkaard made their debut within two years and for the same team (!), but played in a smaller league. They too were on top of the Dutch league already when they made their debut, but didn't have the opportunity to show what impact they would have in the English or Spanish league.
You're right about the leagues thing, but I'm more searching for the last time it happened like it has with these two. I can't recall it happening in the 90's for example. I noticed you went to the 80's :D

[Bertje]

Ronaldo and Rivaldo both made their debut in 1993.

Edit: And Nedved ofcourse.

[Joep]

As much as it hurts to say this, I think the last thing any sudden outburst of such enormous happened in Amsterdam in 1994. I don't like them, but Seedorf and Davids breaking through in the same year is similair I think.

[lanman]

Ronaldo and Rivaldo both made their debut in 1993.

Edit: And Nedved ofcourse.

But of those only Ronaldo was a clear star at a very early age.

[Dark Savante]

It hink we'd first of all have to go back and find some of the child prodigies. I rememebr: Ronaldo, Raul and Del Piero, but can't recount many others right now. I wouldn't hold either Raul or Del Piero in an all-time regard so then it's pushed back in further, to whom? I really can't remember many pre 19yr olds being absolutely HUGE in the game to the point where they were classed as best in the world in their position or extremely close to it.

[Joep]

I wouldn't hold either Raul or Del Piero in an all-time regard

I think there are very many people who will dispute this, including me.

[Excape Goat]

I wouldn't hold either Raul or Del Piero in an all-time regard so then it's pushed back in further, to whom? I really can't remember many pre 19yr olds being absolutely HUGE in the game to the point where they were classed as best in the world in their position or extremely close to it.

If you look at Raul back in 1994 or 1995, people expected many things of him. He was destined to be the greatest Real madrid striker of all-time. His strike rate was so high that everyone expected him to be the best in the world. I do not know when Kluivert made his debut. Many people also did think highly of him. Messi or Rooney might end up liked them.

[Bertje]

Kluivert was considered the biggest talent since Van Basten (Bergkamp wasn't really discovered untill he was 16).

And ending up like Kluivert isn't that bad. Scoring the winner in the final of the Champions League in your first full season, being Holland's topscorer of all time, having some great seasons at Barcelona and a good and a great tournament for the NT. Many people can only dream of a career like his, it's just that he could have done even more with his talent.

[nicephoras]

When was the last time two youngsters had such an impact on the world game from the get-go of their careers?

Rooney was propelled straight to the top after his debut goal against Arsenal, after which it was his temprament that could be questioned but not once could his ability be questioned. You wont find many who won't say he's one of the best players in the world.

Messi hasn't even been active for a full season yet. He's already being called one of the best in the world and is actually making great teams even better when he plays.

How odd is this? Moreover, how rare is it? I'm trying to think back to the last time two potential all-timers emerge within a year or two of each other and lit up the stages they have been on from the off? I'm struggling as well.

Any ideas?

Please don't mention clearly inferior types. Stellar only.

Um...........what effect? Rooney has impressed internationally in the group stage of a major tournament and will not be fully fit for this one (assuming England can put together a decent run). Messi has played half a season in Europe and hasn't started a World Cup game. While Rooney has been influential for his club, he hasn't been the best player in the league and his club's performance over the past several years has been below their par.

There aren't yet any plaudits to base this on. England may have built their national team around Rooney, but I think a little bit more than qualifying from a relatively weak qualifying group should be required before he's annointed as the next greatest thing since sliced bread.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

I have nothing nice to say, so I won't say anything.

[jcsd]

I trhink Carlton Palmer and Ruel Fox both came up through West Brom's ranks at the same time.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

My attempts to provoke people will not succeed.

[GringoTex]

England may have built their national team around Rooney, but I think a little bit more than qualifying from a relatively weak qualifying group should be required before he's annointed as the next greatest thing since sliced bread.

Did Rooney score a goal in that weak qualifying group?

[nicephoras]

Did Rooney score a goal in that weak qualifying group?

I'd imagine he did, though I can't recall off the top of my head.

[johno]

There aren't yet any plaudits to base this on. England may have built their national team around Rooney, but I think a little bit more than qualifying from a relatively weak qualifying group should be required before he's annointed as the next greatest thing since sliced bread.

How about being the most influential player in a team full of supposedly world class players and scoring 4 goals at the Euros when still a teen. No one would base their lofty opinions about Rooney on a sub appearance against Trinidad.

[nicephoras]

That's an impact on a game against Switzerland and Croatia. (I know he also won penalties against the Turks and the French.) Sorry, that's not really enough. Until he helps take England deep into a tournament or performs extremely well in a crucial game for ManUtd, he'll be a very good player having a very good career. But his impact on "world football" hasn't been that great. It doesn't deny how good of a player he is.

[johno]

Rooney carried England single handedly in the Euros as a teenager... regardless of who he scored on... he was their best player and catalyst in a team of world class players and no sooner than he went down injured did England sputter out of the competition.

He's performed extremely well in crucial games for United on several occasions... only a biassed fool would deny that.

check and check.

[Heinz]

Rooney carried England single handedly in the Euros as a teenager... regardless of who he scored on... he was their best player and catalyst in a team of world class players and no sooner than he went down injured did England sputter out of the competition.



:D :D :D so England couldn't qualify for this World Cup without Rooney?? How many goals did Rooney score for England in the qualify group? Gerrad, Lampard, Joe Cole, Beckham, Owen, Ferdinand, Terry... ---> totally useless eh??

He's performed extremely well in crucial games for United on several occasions... only a biassed fool would deny that.


Did he play for Man Utd in this season CL ?? :rolleyes: