AR's and the offsides rule [R]

[JJ Mindset]

It looks like once again the linesmen have trouble discerning the offsides rule again. Specifically, I am referring to the second Costa Rican goal (though I would admit that was a slight difference) and the second Ecuadorean goal. How the hell was Kaviedes onside?! Was there an "invisible" Polish defender that I was unaware of? :rolleyes:

I think crappy line decisions more than crappy referee decisions tick me off more.

[usatowin]

OFFSIDE

Why not post about the incredibly close decisions they got correct? The Ecuador game wasn't shown to be conclusively wrong. The Costa Rica goal was off, but not in the unacceptable blunder area.

[mfw13]

It has been scientifically proven that a human being's eyes cannot move fast enough to both see the ball at the moment it is played and the location of the last defender unless they are both in the AR's direct line of vision.

Therefore it is inevitable that some offsides decisions will be wrong. Just accept it as being part of the "human factor" inherent in soccer and accept that sometimes your team will get the short end of the stick and sometimes you will get the long end.

In most instances we are talking about players being on or offside by feet and inches, so cut the AR's some slack. They cannot get every offsides call right, and nobody should expect them to.

[JJ Mindset]

Probably in this case it may not matter as much as I thought Ecuador played a bit better than Poland and would have won, anyway, without the help. And Costa Rica would've lost, anyway.

However, think GOAL DIFFERENCIAL. Many times I have observed that a bunch of mindboggling line calls are the difference between moving on to the next round and going home. How would you feel as a player if you timed your run right, only to get jobbed by a linesman? What if this happen several times during a match? Likewise, coaches will hesitate to call for an offside trap because they're afraid of getting burned not by a well-timed run but by a missed call from a linesman. Those things tend to change the way the game is played, btw, with unforeseen results. Of course a professional must not lose his temper but one does wonder...

Don't get me wrong. I'm not asking the linesmen to be perfect, just to do their jobs properly.

[usatowin]

So you're not asking for perfection, just no mistakes, even if it's a matter of inches that takes 10 slow motion replays to decide. :confused:

[usscouse]

So you're not asking for perfection, just no mistakes, even if it's a matter of inches that takes 10 slow motion replays to decide. :confused:What's the offsides rule. It's singular 'OFFSIDE.'


I'm with usatowin here! On the subject of offside decisions that is..:)

One has to wait for the replay, one instance looked to me to be way off as the guy moved ahead but the replay showed he was on "The moment the ball was played forward."

The USA to win, might be tougher said than done. But good luck.

[guado]

Probably in this case it may not matter as much as I thought Ecuador played a bit better than Poland and would have won, anyway, without the help. And Costa Rica would've lost, anyway.

However, think GOAL DIFFERENCIAL. Many times I have observed that a bunch of mindboggling line calls are the difference between moving on to the next round and going home. How would you feel as a player if you timed your run right, only to get jobbed by a linesman? What if this happen several times during a match? Likewise, coaches will hesitate to call for an offside trap because they're afraid of getting burned not by a well-timed run but by a missed call from a linesman. Those things tend to change the way the game is played, btw, with unforeseen results. Of course a professional must not lose his temper but one does wonder...

Don't get me wrong. I'm not asking the linesmen to be perfect, just to do their jobs properly.

they do it as well as humanly possible.

reffing goes both ways, yet you only remember the times you get screwed.

what exactly do you mean by properly? because it sounds like you want perfection, and you don't want me to get you wrong , right?

[Ref Flunkie]

I thought they did pretty well in the Germany-CR game. Marcello can say "Oh he was obviously off" all he wants, but when it is a half a body or less, I think that is in the realm of acceptable error.

[ExpatSwede]

I have to say that I really appreciate they so far (two games) all AR's seem to give the attacking player the benefit of the doubt, when present. A very good thing IMO.

And they still got at least 2 out of the 3 questionable offside calls right!

[dna77054]

I have to say that I really appreciate they so far (two games) all AR's seem to give the attacking player the benefit of the doubt, when present. A very good thing IMO.

And they still got at least 2 out of the 3 questionable offside calls right!

I think that got them all correct. If they were so close, even on slo-mo and frozen frame replay, to be questionable and be argued here, then letting the play continue was the right call.

[MassachusettsRef]

Two themes to take away from today's game...

1. Close offside decisions, for the first time, in international "A" matches, are truly going to benefit the attacker.

2. Deliberately stepping in front of quick free kicks will get you a yellow card.

The third and fourth things I expected to take away from today--diving and shirt pulling--either weren't sanctioned fully (diving) or didn't happen excessively (shirt pulling). So, we'll have to wait another day on those. But, overall, I think this was an EXCELLENT start to the tournament for referees. Backlines that like to trap on the offside should take note.

Also, one potential opening for gamesmanship...teams are going to realize VERY quickly that stepping in front of quick free kicks will early yellows...hence, teams will attempt to bait opponents into taking stupid yellows (ie, pretending to take a quick kick). Something for referees to look out for. I'm glad this is being cautioned, but I also expect 2 or 3 stupid cautions as a by-product...

[Kristen79]

I'm just curious how many of you that are unhappy with the calls have actually reffed games?
If you have
1) you know how hard it is to keep your eye on absolutely everything
2) you know there are calls you make that you are screamed at by fans about afterwards
3) you know that you have the best advantage over any of those nutso fans

Also I'm realizing that most people (including the commentators) do not understand the new change to the offside rule. The rule changed in late 2005 if you do not know. You do NOT have to have your entire body offside to be called now.

"In the definition of offside position, “nearer to his opponents’ goal line” means that any part of his head, body or feet is nearer to his opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second last opponent. The arms are not included in this definition. Reason: Football is played with the head, body and feet. If these are nearer the opponents’ goal line, there is a potential advantage. There is no advantage to be gained if only the arms are in advance of the opponent."

[usscouse]

I'm just curious how many of you that are unhappy with the calls have actually reffed games?
If you have
1) you know how hard it is to keep your eye on absolutely everything
2) you know there are calls you make that you are screamed at by fans about afterwards
3) you know that you have the best advantage over any of those nutso fans

Also I'm realizing that most people (including the commentators) do not understand the new change to the offside rule. The rule changed in late 2005 if you do not know. You do NOT have to have your entire body offside to be called now.

"In the definition of offside position, “nearer to his opponents’ goal line” means that any part of his head, body or feet is nearer to his opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second last opponent. The arms are not included in this definition. Reason: Football is played with the head, body and feet. If these are nearer the opponents’ goal line, there is a potential advantage. There is no advantage to be gained if only the arms are in advance of the opponent."All good points. Some people get pretty partizan on how they see an offside as well. The hardest for the AR is when a guy is going flat out for the open space when a ball is played through the passing lane, you blink, you missed it. Never mind what part of his body was even with the last defender as he's jetting by.

So far, I'm giving passing grades on all refs and ARs. 7 games and as I see it. no controversy. Don't forget these guys want to do their best, just as much as the players do.

[MidwestRef]

The second CR goal was very tough to tell after five replays. And you expect any AR to correctly see this play 100% at the time at full match speed??

I've read about a study that proved an AR must focus on five different things at the same time. I know that three are the ball being played, the 2LD, and at least one attacker in offside position. Until there is some sort of technology available to help the ARs (which will never happen), following FIFA's directive of when in doubt, give the attacking team the decision seems to work.

I'm sure FIFA would love to hear whatever suggestions you'd care to give to help call offside more correctly.

[usscouse]

Implanted tracking devices in the players and ball and a GPS fed program that signals the ref as it happens. Maybe like a cattle prod that triggers a whistle responce.

[Gary V]

Implanted tracking devices in the players and ball and a GPS fed program that signals the ref as it happens. Maybe like a cattle prod that triggers a whistle responce.
We don't want to just know offside position - a player could be in an offside position for several minutes without an infraction. In the mean time the ref is being annoyed by the cattle prod? No whistle is needed until participation occurs.

How is the crew to determine which of several candidates the buzzer is responding to? One may be in an offside position, but won't participate in play, and his teammate runs through onto the ball and scores. But your cattle prod is annoying the ref again.

[usatowin]

How is the crew to determine which of several candidates the buzzer is responding to?

Light up jerseys! Hook the GPS to some fiber optic strands. When they're off, the jersey lights up. :cool:

[OMGFigo]

Light up jerseys! Hook the GPS to some fiber optic strands. When they're off, the jersey lights up. :cool:

This could be funny. If this was done I would place bets on how fast players would be screaming foul over all that gear and the inevitable mechanization of the game.

A smart ball chip for over the goal line... sure, easily done, very fair, helps players and refs alike. But for offside calls? Too much precision could result in a very different game and I'm betting people would be screaming to high heaven about the gadget overkill. You have micro-seconds to make an offside call in real life. Which would folks prefer, refs watching a monitor or the field of play?

[usscouse]

We don't want to just know offside position - a player could be in an offside position for several minutes without an infraction. In the mean time the ref is being annoyed by the cattle prod? No whistle is needed until participation occurs.

How is the crew to determine which of several candidates the buzzer is responding to? One may be in an offside position, but won't participate in play, and his teammate runs through onto the ball and scores. But your cattle prod is annoying the ref again.Excellent...! :) I can see how that could be conceived as a detriment. I just like the idea of ...well never mind

A friend and I once (No, nothing to do with football or refs. Just old fart talk) tried to rig a standard dartboard so it would automatically score. Much like the soft tip board.
It involve three layers of mesh, the first and second would cut out with each of the three darts thrown. We wired it up and tried it out.........
Did you know that dart boards, real ones are made of "Pig bristle" that really, really stinks when it's set on fire electrically....


Like I said nothing to de with offside but it makes just as much sense as some of the "blame the ref" posts.