Official BVB Transfer Thread [R] Part III

[footyfan1]

Sevilla is I think 1st or 2nd right now in La Liga.
Real Betis, where Odonkor is playing, is the team trying to avoid relegation right now.

Metro


I had just come on to post that I screwed that up. One of the guys on the list corrected me too. Thanks for doing that!

I should have been thinking "Hinkel" and not "Odonkor"........

[MetroChile]

I had just come on to post that I screwed that up. One of the guys on the list corrected me too. Thanks for doing that!

I should have been thinking "Hinkel" and not "Odonkor"........

Yea, it gets madd confusing.
For some reason, in the media sometimes they type Seville as though it were Real Betis, when in actuality those are two different teams.
It's almost as if they typed our Dortmund was in fact called Scheisske. :o :p

Metro

[footyfan1]

Yea, it gets madd confusing.
For some reason, in the media sometimes they type Seville as though it were Real Betis, when in actuality those are two different teams.
It's almost as if they typed our Dortmund was in fact called Scheisske. :o :p

Metro


You're right, but I still just f#cking screwed that up! LOL!! :D

[footyfan1]

BTW, Metze did say in a "kicker" interview that if he and BVB cannot work out a contract that he's almost certain he would move abroad. I don't know if he really meant that or just said it to keep the peace with BVB fans.

This is a situation where I really don't trust Watzke.

I think he wants to erase all memories of the Niebaum years from BVB and Metze is one of the last remaining players from that era. Take a look. Just about everyone else is a product of this new regime.

There's really just Metze, Weidenfeller, Woerns, Dede and Ricken left. Metze's contract is running out and I really worry about Watzke making Metze a low offer to insure he leaves and then Watzke will go and sign Heiko Westermann.

Weidenfeller has an out clause in his contract if we don't make UEFA this season and guys, unless Juergen Roeber turns out to be some kind of miracle worker, I don't think we're making fifth place.

Woerns they won't get rid of since he's planning to retire after next season anyhow. But I think they hope he retires after this one.

Dede has made himself into a Dortmund icon, but this season Dede has been playing well below his usual level. We will see what brought him down. BvM or someone or something in management.

I think Ricken will be the next Zorc. In other words, Ricken will be the next one content to live his life from BVB paychecks whether he actually earns them or not.

Perhaps this is a well-thought out conspiracy theory on my part. I hope it is. But again, I really don't trust Watzke in some instances.

I believe he truly does love the club and wants to take it back to the top, but I also believe he cares more about doing it "his way" with "his people" more than he cares about what is actually good for the club at this moment.

[footyfan1]

Today's "kicker" links Marcelinho with VfL Wolfsburg.

[footyfan1]

I was going to send notice of a report from yesterday that BVB had entered the bidding to bring Marcelinho back to Germany, but two things stopped that.

1) There doesn't seem to be anyone else here anymore anyhow.

2) Just today, it has been reported that as quickly as BVB entered the running, they had to bow out. The asking price of 2.5-2.8M that Wolfsburg are paying is just too much for BVB to top.

I've been complaining that BVB management has not done enough to build an actual fifth place team.

However, I think they deserve credit here for trying........

Besides, Marcelinho can join us next season after Wolfsburg are relegated! LOL!! :D

He is not going to be crazy about playing in a place where the stadium is usually not even two-thirds full and his coach is a stark raving asshole......

Yeah, a little bit of "sour grapes" on my part there, but watch and see.

[rossgreen]

What positions/players does BVB need to improve the team?

[footyfan1]

What positions/players does BVB need to improve the team?

The following is just my opinion, but I believe, as well as most I know, that BVB's top need for the starting lineup is a creative central midfielder.

We haven't had a true #10 (creative playmaker) since Andy Moeller left the club in part because Lars Ricken has never lived up to this potential.

It looks as if new coach Juergen Roeber is going to give Ricken a shot to finally lead BVB from that creative playmaker position.

People will say "What about Rosicky? Wasn't he a creative playmaker?"

That answer is "mostly no."

Rosicky's best position is as a #7 (attacking midfielder), but he had some #10 skills. However, he preferred being a #7 and we tried to make a #10 out of him. Arsenal are now playing him at his natural position and he seems to be showing some of the skills of his youth.

We've done the same thing (Trying to turn a natural #7 into a #10) with Steven Pienaar and that has failed miserably so far.

We tried to get Marcelinho this past week, but contrary to what I wrote in my comments about him before this, it was not that BVB could not afford the transfer fee, it was that the club could not and would not meet his transfer demands.

Here's the article I translated for the BVB Official Webpage

BVB Withdraws Offer For Marcelinho (http://www.borussia-dortmund.com/?%9F%2Ah%97%84%EC%5Cb%E5%85%9D)

The club is reportedly looking at a young Polish midfielder, but from what I heard of him, he's not a true #10 either.

Again, I feel that is our greatest need.

As far as the rest of the team goes, I'm very happy with our starting defense. I do worry about Degen on the right wing, but Roeber has already warned us this week in "kicker" that he's going to take Degen off the leash BvM had Degen on.

Roeber is going to allow Degen to attack.

Roeber said, "We are going to allow him to play to his strengths. He isn't a Swiss International for nothing. He will bring us fast dribbling, speed down the wing, crosses, and yes, he will make mistakes."

That scares me.

But, it could also bring us something we're missing in attack too.......



I think if anything, we are "overloaded" in central defense with Woerns, Metzelder and Amedick.



I think another real need we have is to find a decent backup for Dede. Going into this season, the top backup for Dede was 17 year old David Vrzogic, but he tore knee ligaments playing basketball in school.

Plus, this season, we've seen that BVB management has a way of severely over-hyping our young talent.

I'm sorry, but the kids I've seen so far aren't nearly as good as BVB management made them out to be before the season.

That is one of the reasons I hold BVB management just as responsible as BvM for this team not coming close to reaching expectations.

Anyhow, while I believe a backup for Dede is a real need, I don't see us getting one before next season. I'm hoping for Bielefeld's Tobias Rau.



In midfield, we've covered the need for a playmaker. I have no complaints about Kringe and Tinga in the holding positions. I think Roeber and/or von Heesen (next season) should start pushing Nuri Sahin more in training as a #10. I really don't have confidence in Ricken getting the job done and it doesn't look like we're going to sign one.

I think Kruska has done an admirable job in Kehl's absence. Kehl is training with the team down in Spain and said yesterday that he hopes to be fit for the re-start at home against Bayern on the 26th.

But having a talent such as Kruska on the bench as a midfielder will strengthen our depth. So will having Pienaar there. But I think Pienaar should see action in most matches. I'd bring him in late in matches to run at tired defenders. I really would.




I'm not very impressed with our strikers, but I think Frei is doing well enough for his first season in the BL. I think he misses quite a few sitters, but nothing like Smolarek for most of last season. I think Valdez will eventually start scoring, but so far, he's been a full blown disappointment. I think his lack of production has hurt us more than anything besides the injuries to Kehl and Metzelder this season.

However, with Roeber going back to the 4-4-2, there's going to be a battle again for the spot next to Frei. At least there should be.

Contrary to everything I said before the season, given everything that's already happened this season, I think Smolarek should be given a fair shot to beat out Valdez for the job.

I still think Valdez is the better overall player on the pitch, but at least Smolarek has scored while Valdez has not.

Smolarek has proven to me already that he belongs with us. Maybe not always as a starter, but he belongs in Dortmund. I didn't think so before the season started but that guy willed himself to do better for the team.

We need that type of attitude at this club.

Where I think we need to strengthen ourselves at the striker position is that first or second guy off the bench, who is currently Matthew Amoah.

I think we need a big guy to come off the bench late in matches not only to better challenge for headers late in matches, but to lean on tired defenders and open things up for Frei.

Amoah is just too tiny for the job and to ineffective to be on our team period.

At least so far.

Same goes for Sebastian Tyrala. I'd be training him to be an attacking midfielder. Perhaps groom him to do what Odonkor used to do.

Odonkor. I still think what we missed in our offense with him gone still wasn't worth 6.5M Euros.

Can that money replace some of the points we could have won with his attacks and flanks?

I really don't think so........

In closing, as you see, as far as I'm concerned, we really don't need that much.

The problem is, before taking a shot at Marcelinho, management has not gone after any of the needs. None. I think they truly believe they have what it takes already.

I just don't agree. I think we can get there if we play over our heads consistently, but on paper, I don't believe this is a fifth place team.

I just don't. :(

[rossgreen]

The following is just my opinion, but I believe, as well as most I know, that BVB's top need for the starting lineup is a creative central midfielder.

We haven't had a true #10 (creative playmaker) since Andy Moeller left the club in part because Lars Ricken has never lived up to this potential.

It looks as if new coach Juergen Roeber is going to give Ricken a shot to finally lead BVB from that creative playmaker position.

People will say "What about Rosicky? Wasn't he a creative playmaker?"

That answer is "mostly no."

Rosicky's best position is as a #7 (attacking midfielder), but he had some #10 skills. However, he preferred being a #7 and we tried to make a #10 out of him. Arsenal are now playing him at his natural position and he seems to be showing some of the skills of his youth.

We've done the same thing (Trying to turn a natural #7 into a #10) with Steven Pienaar and that has failed miserably so far.

We tried to get Marcelinho this past week, but contrary to what I wrote in my comments about him before this, it was not that BVB could not afford the transfer fee, it was that the club could not and would not meet his transfer demands.

Here's the article I translated for the BVB Official Webpage

BVB Withdraws Offer For Marcelinho (http://www.borussia-dortmund.com/?%9F%2Ah%97%84%EC%5Cb%E5%85%9D)

The club is reportedly looking at a young Polish midfielder, but from what I heard of him, he's not a true #10 either.

Again, I feel that is our greatest need.

As far as the rest of the team goes, I'm very happy with our starting defense. I do worry about Degen on the right wing, but Roeber has already warned us this week in "kicker" that he's going to take Degen off the leash BvM had Degen on.

Roeber is going to allow Degen to attack.

Roeber said, "We are going to allow him to play to his strengths. He isn't a Swiss International for nothing. He will bring us fast dribbling, speed down the wing, crosses, and yes, he will make mistakes."

That scares me.

But, it could also bring us something we're missing in attack too.......



I think if anything, we are "overloaded" in central defense with Woerns, Metzelder and Amedick.



I think another real need we have is to find a decent backup for Dede. Going into this season, the top backup for Dede was 17 year old David Vrzogic, but he tore knee ligaments playing basketball in school.

Plus, this season, we've seen that BVB management has a way of severely over-hyping our young talent.

I'm sorry, but the kids I've seen so far aren't nearly as good as BVB management made them out to be before the season.

That is one of the reasons I hold BVB management just as responsible as BvM for this team not coming close to reaching expectations.

Anyhow, while I believe a backup for Dede is a real need, I don't see us getting one before next season. I'm hoping for Bielefeld's Tobias Rau.



In midfield, we've covered the need for a playmaker. I have no complaints about Kringe and Tinga in the holding positions. I think Roeber and/or von Heesen (next season) should start pushing Nuri Sahin more in training as a #10. I really don't have confidence in Ricken getting the job done and it doesn't look like we're going to sign one.

I think Kruska has done an admirable job in Kehl's absence. Kehl is training with the team down in Spain and said yesterday that he hopes to be fit for the re-start at home against Bayern on the 26th.

But having a talent such as Kruska on the bench as a midfielder will strengthen our depth. So will having Pienaar there. But I think Pienaar should see action in most matches. I'd bring him in late in matches to run at tired defenders. I really would.




I'm not very impressed with our strikers, but I think Frei is doing well enough for his first season in the BL. I think he misses quite a few sitters, but nothing like Smolarek for most of last season. I think Valdez will eventually start scoring, but so far, he's been a full blown disappointment. I think his lack of production has hurt us more than anything besides the injuries to Kehl and Metzelder this season.

However, with Roeber going back to the 4-4-2, there's going to be a battle again for the spot next to Frei. At least there should be.

Contrary to everything I said before the season, given everything that's already happened this season, I think Smolarek should be given a fair shot to beat out Valdez for the job.

I still think Valdez is the better overall player on the pitch, but at least Smolarek has scored while Valdez has not.

Smolarek has proven to me already that he belongs with us. Maybe not always as a starter, but he belongs in Dortmund. I didn't think so before the season started but that guy willed himself to do better for the team.

We need that type of attitude at this club.

Where I think we need to strengthen ourselves at the striker position is that first or second guy off the bench, who is currently Matthew Amoah.

I think we need a big guy to come off the bench late in matches not only to better challenge for headers late in matches, but to lean on tired defenders and open things up for Frei.

Amoah is just too tiny for the job and to ineffective to be on our team period.

At least so far.

Same goes for Sebastian Tyrala. I'd be training him to be an attacking midfielder. Perhaps groom him to do what Odonkor used to do.

Odonkor. I still think what we missed in our offense with him gone still wasn't worth 6.5M Euros.

Can that money replace some of the points we could have won with his attacks and flanks?

I really don't think so........

In closing, as you see, as far as I'm concerned, we really don't need that much.

The problem is, before taking a shot at Marcelinho, management has not gone after any of the needs. None. I think they truly believe they have what it takes already.

I just don't agree. I think we can get there if we play over our heads consistently, but on paper, I don't believe this is a fifth place team.

I just don't. :(

So what would be you ideal starting XI?

[squidward123]

footyfan, in reference to your discussion of rosicky and moeller, what in your opinion is the difference between the two? ie. between a #10 and #7

[footyfan1]

footyfan, in reference to your discussion of rosicky and moeller, what in your opinion is the difference between the two? ie. between a #10 and #7


A #10 is pretty much a playmaker who mostly provides opportunities for others. In the Bundesliga, I'd say vDv and Diego are classic playmakers. vDv being more of a #10. Diego is what I'd call a "hybrid". He's a bit of both.


A #7 is an attacking midfielder. One who mostly goes for goal. Think Bayern's Schweinsteiger.

This is what Rosicky was at Sparta Prague before he joined us.

He showed signs of being a "hybrid" as Diego is now, but Rosicky made it clear to BVB just after he signed that he was more comfortable as a #7, but they turned him into a #10 anyhow.

[footyfan1]

So what would be you ideal starting XI?

If you mean for BVB, with the players we have now, with Roeber being determined to play his 4-4-2, I guess it would be this.


GK: Weidenfeller

RB: Degen CB: Metzelder, Amedick LB: Dede

Sweeper: Kehl

Holding MF: Kringe

Roaming MF: Tinga

Playmaker: Ricken (Wish we could have gotten Marcelinho, but it was not possible)

Strikers: Frei, Valdez




Honestly, the 4-4-2 didn't work under BvM and I don't know that it will work with pretty much the same guys now. Unless Ricken FINALLY at least comes close to becoming what we expected him to become post 1997.

However, it does have to be said that it really does seem that Roeber is bringing a new attitude along with his new (to BVB) training methods.


So, while that has to be given a chance, given what's occurred already this season, I think we're better equipped to play the 4-3-3.

And I'd rather see the 4-3-3 because it would keep Smolarek on the pitch. My 4-3-3 would look like this:

GK: Weidenfeller

RB: Degen CB: Metzelder, Amedick LB: Dede

Sweeper: Kehl

Holding MF: Kringe

Offensive MF: Tinga

Strikers: Frei, Valdez, Smolarek


I think the keys to the 4-4-2 having a chance to work are:

1) As previously stated, Ricken finally at least coming close to living up to his potential.

2) How Degen plays in his new (at BVB), more attacking oriented role. He'll be playing pretty much the way he does for the Swiss National Team where he is one of their main offensive catalysts.

3) If Kehl comes back and actually takes over as leader on the pitch. That's one thing we haven't discussed in awhile. BVB's lack of leadership on the pitch. Kehl or Metzelder needs to allievate that situation.

BTW, I know I put Amedick in both my lineups, but you asked what was MY ideal starting 11.

You can bet Roeber will stick with Woerns. I think it's Amedick's time.

[Gunning4Chelsea]

with the 4-4-2...Valdez better get his shit together....Per British reports, Smolarek is on Stuart Pierce's wish list at Man City....the price tag will probably be around 2-3 million quid....
i am not sure if Smolarek wants to leave BVB - if he is out of favor with Roeber - he is gone
which -in turn, doesnt bode well for the remainder of the season (bottom half of the table if Valdez continues his goal-phobia) - unless Zorc uses the cash to find a MF and a tall striker in January.....

[Gunning4Chelsea]

Lars Ricken as the playmaker scares the hell out of me....no offense to Lars' loyal and industrious service to the club - but I am not comfortable with Lars attempting to distribute the ball upfront

it's going be a more interesting month ahead that i could have imagined at the start of this campaign

[rossgreen]

with the 4-4-2...Valdez better get his shit together....Per British reports, Smolarek is on Stuart Pierce's wish list at Man City....the price tag will probably be around 2-3 million quid....
i am not sure if Smolarek wants to leave BVB - if he is out of favor with Roeber - he is gone
which -in turn, doesnt bode well for the remainder of the season (bottom half of the table if Valdez continues his goal-phobia) - unless Zorc uses the cash to find a MF and a tall striker in January.....

Pearce, from reports, is close to hauling in Sevilla's Kepa. Maybe you won't have to worry about Smolarek leaving (or atleast to MCFC.)

[footyfan1]

with the 4-4-2...Valdez better get his shit together....Per British reports, Smolarek is on Stuart Pierce's wish list at Man City....the price tag will probably be around 2-3 million quid....
i am not sure if Smolarek wants to leave BVB - if he is out of favor with Roeber - he is gone

Dude, BVB squashed that rumor two weeks ago.

Check out the official site. The story is there in English.


which -in turn, doesnt bode well for the remainder of the season (bottom half of the table if Valdez continues his goal-phobia) - unless Zorc uses the cash to find a MF and a tall striker in January.....

As usual "Zorc" isn't doing squat. We had a small debate recently on the e-mail list trying to determine if Zorc does much of anything. Every time you turn around you hear about Watzke doing things Zorc should be doing. I'm beginning to realize why Stefan Reuter, who was given a job at the club after his retirement as Zorc's assistant, left saying he really didn't have a job.

I'm wondering if Zorc even has one or if he's there just as a symbol for the fans.

Anyhow, as far as a midfielder goes, management does deserve credit for at least looking into acquiring Marcelinho.

But, while it seems BVB could have met the transfer fee, they didn't want to top what Wolfsburg is willing to pay him in salary so he signed there.

I don't mind that. The team was being responsible.

However, it doesn't look like they even acknowledge that lack of firepower off the bench or lack of height at the striker position are even problems....... :mad:

[footyfan1]

Lars Ricken as the playmaker scares the hell out of me....no offense to Lars' loyal and industrious service to the club - but I am not comfortable with Lars attempting to distribute the ball upfront

it's going be a more interesting month ahead that i could have imagined at the start of this campaign


You got that one right. With me, it's not the fact that he's going to attempt to play the position that if he'd gotten right from the beginning, we probably would have never bought Tomas Rosicky.

My problem is that Ricken never plays well with any consistency. I think if he can stay healthy, something else he's had problems with his entire career, his M.O. is that he has one good match, two or three crappy ones, and then maybe another good one or two before another crappy one and then an injury.

I mentioned that maybe they'd better start playing Nuri Sahin at the #10 position in training, but from what I saw at the official website, they've been playing him in front of the defense as a backup for Kehl's position.

Sahin has shown potential there, but I think we need his offensive skills more. Kruska does a good enough job backing up Kehl.

But, right now, I'll trust that Roeber has seen something the rest of us hasn't........

[squidward123]

A #10 is pretty much a playmaker who mostly provides opportunities for others. In the Bundesliga, I'd say vDv and Diego are classic playmakers. vDv being more of a #10. Diego is what I'd call a "hybrid". He's a bit of both.


A #7 is an attacking midfielder. One who mostly goes for goal. Think Bayern's Schweinsteiger.

This is what Rosicky was at Sparta Prague before he joined us.

He showed signs of being a "hybrid" as Diego is now, but Rosicky made it clear to BVB just after he signed that he was more comfortable as a #7, but they turned him into a #10 anyhow.

Andi Moeller did get lots of goals too though, as a playmaker.

I guess if the player has the ability, he will adjust depending on what the team needs and how the players decide it needs to be played out on the pitch.

For eg. I'm sure schweinsteiger will start playing in the playmaker role in future.

Schneider can do either.

Zidane was a playmaker for france, but could do either when needed.

[footyfan1]

Andi Moeller did get lots of goals too though, as a playmaker.

Dude, being a #10 doesn't mean that you never score. Being a #10 means you look to set up the others as your main priority.

Moeller would go for goal when the team needed him to. Other than that, he was feeding Chapuisat, Riedle, Herrlich and co. Which is why they scored a bunch!

Andy Moeller was the main reason Chapuisat was the Bundesliga's all-time leading foreign goal-scorer until Elber broke that record.



I guess if the player has the ability, he will adjust depending on what the team needs and how the players decide it needs to be played out on the pitch.

It depends on the player. Diego can do both equally well. Basturk can do both, but is a better playmaker than attacker. Schneider is the exact reverse of Basturk, which is why they both fit so well with Ballack in that Leverkusen midfield.

Schweinsteiger is pure #7. vdV is a pure #10.

The only other kid I've seen who does both equally well is Michael Delura of Gladbach. He has the potential to be one of the Bundesliga's best in the future.

Unfortunately, he's on loan at Gladbach from Scheisse and will serve those MFers well in the future.


For eg. I'm sure schweinsteiger will start playing in the playmaker role in future.

No, he won't. That's why Bayern are going to give Deisler his shot to finally claim his spot in the center or buy a playmaker. They have no intention of asking Schweinsteiger to do so.



Schneider can do either.

Schneider is more of an attacker. His playmaking skills are OK, but there's a reason Leverkusen have never asked him to do it full time. Even though Leverkusen has been missing a playmaker since Basturk left.....


Zidane was a playmaker for france, but could do either when needed.

He was the "ultimate hybrid". As is Ronaldinho........

In the Bundesliga, the closest thing is Diego.

[AMK3]

[QUOTE=footyfan1;10445282]No, he won't. That's why Bayern are going to give Deisler his shot to finally claim his spot in the center or buy a playmaker. They have no intention of asking Schweinsteiger to do so.

Deisler has retired from proffecional football.

http://www.fcbayern.t-com.de/en/news/news/2007/10480.php?fcb_sid=94171ee4afe8a33c113d7c6876c4ae38