Why Rangers fans should support Celtic vs. Liverpool

[GersMan]

I talk about this until I'm blue in the face to Bears (well actually I'm already blue in the face, being a bluenose and all), but in a manner of speaking, I talk about this until I'm blue in the face.

Scotland are currently 11th in the UEFA Country Ranking. This table uses results from revolving five-year cycles to determine the number of teams each country will enter in European competition and the starting place of each country's teams in the various events. The champion of the top 9 countries in the five-year table, are automatically entered in the group stage of the following season's Champions League, along with the runners up of the top six nations and the defending champion.

A number of times, the defending Cup holder will have already qualified for the group stage by virtue of its league finish. When this happens, the champion of the 10th-ranked country also qualifies directly for the group stage.

Here's the deal, Scotland are now 11th place in the table at 28.375 points. Without explaining all the math suffice it to say that a Scots club this year gets .500 for a win and .250 for a draw in Euro competition. Belgium are currently 10th, at 28.500 points, but all Belgian teams are out of the competition.

So if Celtic, the lone Scots club remaining in the competition, can get just a draw in one of the matches with Liverpool, Scotland will pass Belgium for 10th place. Conceiveably they could lift Scotland to 9th place with a win and a draw, and the Turkish side Besiktas getting skunked against their opponent, but let's not get greedy.

Meanwhile the odds on favorites to win the Champions League this year, Real Madrid, Man United, AC Milan, all look likely to qualify for the first group stage anyway, so the champion of the 10th ranked country should get into the group stage. Given Rangers mixed record in those dreaded home and away qualifying rounds, this would be a welcome thing (by the way, Rangers are going to win the SPL this year).

So Bears should not support Liverpool too vehemently. None of us will be cheering for Celtic goals, but within their blue hearts, Bears can always say "that's good for us" when they score one March 13 (besides, we'll hump them a few days later at Hampden)

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/crank03.html

[celtic fc]

I was going to say "well said" until I read that last bit!

[Parkhead_Faithful]

Originally posted by GersMan


(by the way, Rangers are going to win the SPL this year).



Chickens counted before their hatched eh?
Bhoys have a game in hand remember ;)

[KorovaMilkbar]

Actually...

The country ranking's effect on qualification has a bit of a delay. The rankings at the end of this season will determine the qualification order for the 04/05 season. Next season's qualification order was determined by the rankings from the end of last season.

Okay, that was probably hard to follow. Simply put, last year Scotland finished as the 12th ranked country, so next season they will be the 12th country in qualification order. Here is a list of the qualification order for next year:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/qual2003.html

The point you made still holds true. A move up to 9th or 10th in the rankings would help Rangers when they win their second title in a row next year. ;)

[GersMan]

No, the country ranking applies for NEXT year's competition re where the teams start in each competition.

It applies for 2004-2005 re how many teams qualify for each competition, so that clubs know what they are playing for when the season starts.

Trust me, I've been paying way too much attention to this for a long time.

btw, on the link you provide, you'll not he already has rangers and celtic written in as finishers one and two, wiht nine matches remaining in the season, a sad commentary on scots fitba.

[cosmosRIP]

The country rankings at the end of this season will determine the number of teams per country and the rounds in which they enter for the 04/05 season.
The team rankings at the end of this season will determine how the teams are seeded next season (03/04).

[GersMan]

No, the country rankings at the end of THIS season determine point of entry for NEXT season's competition - that is 2003-2004. The #of berths are already determined, but point of entry is fluid until the season is over. They have done it this way for the past three years. #of berths is delayed a year but point of entry is for the very next year.

If that weren't the case, the issue of a defending champion possibly pushing one of its country's group stage qualifiers down into the qualifying round wouldn't be an issue, because that team wouldn't be a defending champion for the following season, would it?

[jonesyp]

Celtic's UEFA Cup run has earned Scotland an automatic Champions League place for the first time.

Next season's champions will go straight into the flagship competition the following season on the back of the Hoops' current Euro success.

Celtic's 2-0 win at Liverpool last night, which clinched a 3-1 quarter-final aggregate victory, raised Scotland's UEFA ranking position high enough to guarantee a Champions League place in season 2004-2005.

The Bhoys' run in Europe has added so many ranking points to Scotland's total coefficient that Thursday night's victory, allied to Besiktas being knocked out by Lazio, saw Scotland leapfrog Turkey in the rankings.

SFA spokesman Andy Mitchell said: "Scotland now lie in ninth place in the UEFA ranking table, which means that the SPL champions next season will automatically enter the 2004-2005 UEFA Champions League at the group stage, while the runners-up will come in at the third qualifying round.

"Scotland will still have two places in the UEFA Cup. Scotland's coefficient will continue to rise if Celtic carry on winning in Europe.

"But the ninth place is unlikely to be improved upon this season as the countries immediately ahead of Scotland - Portugal and Holland - also have clubs doing well in Europe.

"However, there is every prospect that another good European performance from Scottish clubs next season could enhance our standing and see us getting more UEFA places
http://msn.skysports.com/skysports/article/0,,6310-1084561,00.html

[GersMan]

yeah, sorry lads, i've got it all wrong.

I remembered hoping for results that would have an immediate benefit, but now I realize that had to do with which teams qualified for European play, as it would push Rangers into a seeded position for the qualifying round of the following season's European Cup, so they could play a minnow instead of the likes of Valencia or Dynamo Kiev in a home and away showdown.

Korova and cosmosrip had it right all along.

I don't think anyone with Rangers are thinking about this just now anyway, if you know what I mean.