Improvements to the WE series

[Auriaprottu]

I've begun to really enjoy WE9, finally, but there are some things I'd like to see Konami improve to make the game more realistic.

1. Get rid of the "force-field" that occasionally crops up and prevents my player from going directly toward a loose ball. What is the purpose of this? I want to be able to go for the ball just like the CPU does. I don't need to have my player to have to travel in a semicircle to get there. I've lost many 50-50 balls that way.

2. Don't direct my player toward the defender when I've run onto a through-pass. I've had this happen more times than I can recall. I'll send a player through, and steer him forward and away from the defender trying to catch him on the side. The CPU will almost inevitably turn him toward the defender and allow the defender to make a tackle or the GK to make a save.

3. Revamp the entire "summons" system, or get rid of it. Limit "called-up" players to those who are actually listed on the game's national team, or don't include this feature at all. I'm not talking about players who accumulate two yellows, I'm talking about players leaving for national team duty when they're not anywhere near NT quality! I reached the R8 of the D1 Cup and had played a 0-0 home match against Arsenal when I lose two of my starting three defenders (Monsoreau ain't on the French NT, AFAIK, and Sutto ain't even a real player- he's a creation for the ML), a midfielder (Dunga- a CLASSIC player who has no business playing for the Selecao anymore) and and an AMF (Iujimano) who not only isn't real, but couldn't ever get a spot on the Azzurri with those low numbers. I lost the road leg 2-1 because of defensive errors committed by Sutto's replacement when I wasn't controlling him. Plus, when those players came back, their fatigue meters were maxed out -that had never happened in two seasons of club play- so I couldn't use them again. They missed three matches, all told. What hurts is that I get the feeling that the selection of NT players from ML teams is arbitrary. And when it's arbitrary, you begin to feel cheated by the CPU. No, Henry wasn't in the game, but Pires was there- that's not the sort of thing that inspires confidence in Konami's ability to treat gamers fairly.

The best solution for this problem is to limit call-ups to players currently on the NT. Start each season with NT friendlies/WCQ on the calendar ("Week X will also include friendlies involving teams from Europe and the Americas", or "Week X will involve WCQ betweenn the following teams... If you have a player on WE's national team roster, he will be unavailable for that match"). At least that way I know I can expect both teams to be treated the same.

More in the next post.

[Auriaprottu]

4. Don't use my arrows to make crap teams better than they are just to put artificial excitement into the end of the season. I've played even football with the real teams in the league...

Chelsea (2-0 win at Stamford Bridge, 2-1 loss at home),
Arsenal (0-0 draw at home, road leg remains),
Newcastle (1-1 draw at home, road leg remains),
Liverpool (1-0 loss at Anfield, 2-0 win at home)
United (0-0 draw at home, 1-0 win at Old Trafford)

...so why am I getting challenged by the Spurs, Fulhams, Blackburns and Charltons of the league? I get plenty of orange and red arrows when I play the better teams, but only green when I play the crap teams. This suggests that some form of equalizing is taking place. Konami is being arbitrary with the arrows, and again, when it's arbitrary, you begin to feel cheated by the CPU.

I have three matches left in my first EPL season, trying to hold onto 6th position. I lost to Liverpool 2-1 respectably. Then I lost to Fulham (a team I have every right to smash like a grape) 2-0. Fulham is 7th, now two points behind, after they beat me 2-0 last night. Let me say this right now -I don't mind losing fair and square- but starting out the match with a bunch of green and blue arrows was not indicative of a team that wants to hold its position. My players should have been just as hyped about defending their European spot as Fulham was about trying to take it. Fulham played with all the energy of a high school squad with nothing to lose and they won. I have two good teams and one crap team (Newcastle, Arsenal and Bolton) left, while Fulham has two cupcakes (Blackburn and Wigan) and and one tough team Chelsea. I don't really mind getting four of the top five teams at the end of the season, but to have that happen while a team I should be able to beat beats me, and has the schedule to make a run for the European spot I've been in all season sounds like created excitement. The point of a sim is not to have it feel like it's all being controlled by the CPU to make the game exciting. It needs to be realistic. again, when it's arbitrary, you begin to feel cheated by the CPU.

[the stranger]

Regarding points 1 and 4

1. The Super-Cancel sometimes can combat the "running on rails" phenomonon. It helps me get to a lot of 50-50s. Each edition they seem to loosen up the player movements a bit (altho WE9 seemed like a step backword in that regard).

4. I have always been under the impression that the arrows are measuring fitness, not form. I never bench a star player, even if his arrow is straight down, but I keep an eye on their stamina bar because they tire more quickly.

[ZeekLTK]

Regarding points 1 and 4

1. The Super-Cancel sometimes can combat the "running on rails" phenomonon. It helps me get to a lot of 50-50s. Each edition they seem to loosen up the player movements a bit (altho WE9 seemed like a step backword in that regard).

4. I have always been under the impression that the arrows are measuring fitness, not form. I never bench a star player, even if his arrow is straight down, but I keep an eye on their stamina bar because they tire more quickly.

I love the super cancel button! That's part of the reason I hate EA's game, because I can't use the "super cancel button" to get a through ball when I want to, which is almost always sooner than it will let me.

But for #4, I dunno about the arrows, but I also noticed that in WE I always struggle against the worst teams in the league and play great against the top teams. I always dread when I play the two teams at the bottom of the table because I know, for some reason, they are going to take points off me almost no matter what I do. :/

I mean, I remember one ML I did, I was fighting Juventus and Bayern Munich for the title. I played Munich and beat them 3-0 on the road to go above them by a point on the table. Then I played last play De Graafschap (or whatever the *** their name is) at home and was held to a 1-1 draw which allowed Munich to go back ahead of me in the standings since they won their next game. This pissed me off so much, even though going into the 2 games I would have been happy with 4 points... a draw at Munich and a win over de Gr...whatever. But if my team can beat Munich then I fully expect them to beat the hell out of the last place team, so after the 2 games I was extremely upset to have 4 points.

[Rima067]

One little addition I would like to include:

after a match/half-time when looking at the stats, specifically, goals scored, I would like to have ASSISTS be readily available to view. It's annoying to go through each individual player that played the match and clicking to see if any had assists.

[Auriaprottu]

1. The Super-Cancel sometimes can combat the "running on rails" phenomonon. It helps me get to a lot of 50-50s. Each edition they seem to loosen up the player movements a bit

Thanks so much for this info. What, exactly, is the Super-Cancel button?

(altho WE9 seemed like a step backword in that regard).

I agree. WE8 was more fluid in this regard.

4. I have always been under the impression that the arrows are measuring fitness, not form. I never bench a star player, even if his arrow is straight down, but I keep an eye on their stamina bar because they tire more quickly.

No, I think the arrows measure form, not fitness -how well (orange, red) or poorly (blue, purple)the player will play this next match compared to his average performance (green).

5. One more thing-

5. <Jim Morrison> I've noticed that Konami has taken the liberty of projecting individual players' future development for the ML.

Projecting individual players' future development for the ML.

Projecting individual players' future development for the ML.






YOU... CANNOT PROJECT INDIVIDUAL PLAYERS' FUTURE... DEVELOPMENT!!!!!!</Jim Morrison>

That's quite possibly the most arrogant thing I've ever seen them do, aside from their tradition of releasing each version of WE to the USA last.

Konami, in their infinite football wisdom, has decided that Rooney will have a stadard and lasting improvement curve, but Kaka will peak early and then drop off. What the ******** do these Eurocentric morons think they can predict about any player's future development? Either issue each player a standard curve based on his position, or don't do anything. It ruins the game when you allow gifted players only a few years to play at their peak but guys whose main weapon is brute strength can go on for a decade or more. This is insulting to those who make the Game worth watching, and an insult to those who would like to see at least some of the beauty that the Selecao of the Pele era brought be returned. this is just sad.

[the stranger]

For Super Cancel you press two of the shoulder buttons (R1 + R2 or L1 I think), along with the direction pad. Once you become used to it it will become a very useful technique.

[AstonVillaFan]

I want to see more skins....IMO 4 is not enough...but whatever? please improve some player designs...The Iranian NT, Peruvian NT, and Costa Rican NT don't look nothing like that in real life.

[Auriaprottu]

6. Try not to make the loaded scheduling so obvious. If I had a dollar for every time I've had to play a team in the FA Cup and then come right back and play them in the league (or the other way around), I'd have enough money for two premium registrations, at least. Now it's beginning to happen in Europe as well. The group stages are horrid. There are two other EPL teams in my group. Not sure I understand why they opt to do it this way. This is one instance where I neither know nor care how FIFA or UEFA does it- it simply makes more sense to place teams from the same league in different groups.

[russ99]

Cup and Master League Modes for PSP!

[Microwave]

I've begun to really enjoy WE9, finally, but there are some things I'd like to see Konami improve to make the game more realistic.

1. Get rid of the "force-field" that occasionally crops up and prevents my player from going directly toward a loose ball. What is the purpose of this? I want to be able to go for the ball just like the CPU does. I don't need to have my player to have to travel in a semicircle to get there. I've lost many 50-50 balls that way.

You know what? It seemed they improved this in the last 2 versions of the game but the force field is back in full force in WE9.

2. Don't direct my player toward the defender when I've run onto a through-pass. I've had this happen more times than I can recall. I'll send a player through, and steer him forward and away from the defender trying to catch him on the side. The CPU will almost inevitably turn him toward the defender and allow the defender to make a tackle or the GK to make a save.

Yep.

3. Revamp the entire "summons" system, or get rid of it. Limit "called-up" players to those who are actually listed on the game's national team, or don't include this feature at all. I'm not talking about players who accumulate two yellows, I'm talking about players leaving for national team duty when they're not anywhere near NT quality! I reached the R8 of the D1 Cup and had played a 0-0 home match against Arsenal when I lose two of my starting three defenders (Monsoreau ain't on the French NT, AFAIK, and Sutto ain't even a real player- he's a creation for the ML), a midfielder (Dunga- a CLASSIC player who has no business playing for the Selecao anymore) and and an AMF (Iujimano) who not only isn't real, but couldn't ever get a spot on the Azzurri with those low numbers. I lost the road leg 2-1 because of defensive errors committed by Sutto's replacement when I wasn't controlling him. Plus, when those players came back, their fatigue meters were maxed out -that had never happened in two seasons of club play- so I couldn't use them again. They missed three matches, all told. What hurts is that I get the feeling that the selection of NT players from ML teams is arbitrary. And when it's arbitrary, you begin to feel cheated by the CPU. No, Henry wasn't in the game, but Pires was there- that's not the sort of thing that inspires confidence in Konami's ability to treat gamers fairly.

The best solution for this problem is to limit call-ups to players currently on the NT. Start each season with NT friendlies/WCQ on the calendar ("Week X will also include friendlies involving teams from Europe and the Americas", or "Week X will involve WCQ betweenn the following teams... If you have a player on WE's national team roster, he will be unavailable for that match"). At least that way I know I can expect both teams to be treated the same.

More in the next post.[/quote[

Agreed but it's probably difficult to program all of this into a game and have it be exactly how we want it.



My other issue is the speed discrepency. This seemed to go away in We7 and 8 too but is back in 9. The defenders can always catch up to the strikers, even if in real life the striker is much faster and is far ahead of the defender. It was really bad in the old Konami ISS games but they seemed to fix it by WE7. But now the speed discrepency is back.

[Auriaprottu]

You know what? It seemed they improved this in the last 2 versions of the game but the force field is back in full force in WE9.

Agreed. It seemed like they'd made some improvement in that area, but it did go right back. What's the purpose of the force field anyhow? Why should gamers have to use a sequence of buttons to make players do what they should be able to do normally?


Agreed but it's probably difficult to program all of this into a game and have it be exactly how we want it.

I see no reason for call-ups at all, given that the other problems I mentioned have turned this game into something more like an arcade game. They'd do better to just scrap the call-up idea totally.

My other issue is the speed discrepency. This seemed to go away in We7 and 8 too but is back in 9. The defenders can always catch up to the strikers, even if in real life the striker is much faster and is far ahead of the defender. It was really bad in the old Konami ISS games but they seemed to fix it by WE7. But now the speed discrepency is back.

Yeah, I noticed that as well. But it wasn't near the top of my list of issues this game needs to resolve.

I do want to say this, having started a thread that some people might consider whining.

I'm fully aware that every game has a CPU controlling everything- it can't be any other way. I know the point is for the game to be both challenging and realistic. WE9 is lacking in the latter category, because... well, I guess because Konami doesn't want to improve the game too quickly or something, I don't know. I don't want to win every match. I don't want to win the treble every season. All I'm asking, really, is not to be able to tell when something's being done to make it challenging or exciting. When the CPU intervention is as transparent as it's become, that ruins the experience.

[Microwave]

I agree. It's still a great game but that doesn't mean there aren't flaws.

I also hate the miss-kicks and passing to the player you don't intend to. It sucks when you have a player on the run and you hit the pass button and it goes to a player on the other side who is covered by 5 defenders.

They should have icon passing like they do in the NBA games, you quickly tap a button and icons (correlating to the buttons on your controller) pop up and you can pass to whomever you want. Sure it can get tricky in a soccer game but videogame programmers are smart, they can figure out a way to implement it.

Also, with the new systems coming out, I hope the graphics improve. FIFA's games are shiny and prisitne and WE is still dull and bland. The player models are better in WE but the actual kits and colors are duller.

[Auriaprottu]

I also hate the miss-kicks and passing to the player you don't intend to. It sucks when you have a player on the run and you hit the pass button and it goes to a player on the other side who is covered by 5 defenders.

Yeah, I forgot to mention that one. That's probably the second most annoying thing related to the passing aspect of gameplay, which brings me to...

7. Get rid of the random "player flicks ball over his head needlessly" thing. You can't do it on your own- the CPU does it when it wants to, and more often than not, the only purpose it ends up serving is to allow defenders to close in on you or on the guy you intended to pass to. Worse case, he loses the ball. That's absolutely the stupidest damn thing I've ever seen in a game.

They should have icon passing like they do in the NBA games, you quickly tap a button and icons (correlating to the buttons on your controller) pop up and you can pass to whomever you want. Sure it can get tricky in a soccer game but videogame programmers are smart, they can figure out a way to implement it.

This makes complete sense.

Also, with the new systems coming out, I hope the graphics improve. FIFA's games are shiny and prisitne and WE is still dull and bland. The player models are better in WE but the actual kits and colors are duller.

I haven't played FIFA since FIFA 2003, haven't played This Is Football (also known as World Tour Soccer) since TiF 2002, so I've become accustomed to WE's graphics. They've improved tremendously since WE6, and I'm pretty much happy with them. I would like to see them allow more layers for the kits (TiF 2002 had seven layers for shirt, shorts and socks, and each layer gave you every selection just like the others, so you could almost literally duplicate the actual kits.

I've been saying for some time now that Konami needs to use the same "emblem builder" for the NTs and logos as they do for the club emblems. That way, gamers could duplicate the NT badges almost exactly. The way they have it set up, it's very difficult to build a replica of any national team's badge, and it's hard to duplicate the kits as well. Konami either gives you the stripe or whatever or different colored shoulder on the wrong side, or not the right number of stripes, or they're too far apart (Colombia, Argentina), or whatever. There's always something they should have thought of but didn't. It makes no sense. You can't sue someone for giving you a logo builder that allows them to duplicate the logo- you can only sue them for duplicating the logo themselves. Even if you could, it's time Konami took a stand and went to court if necessary.


That said, I played the final match of season 5. Winning Eleven United managed to win the WEFA (UEFA) Champions League 1-0 over Real Madrid and the FA Cup 2-1 over United, but could manage only second in the league, two points behind three-time champion Chelsea. Sutto had announced his retirement during the season, so I subbed him in for the final 15 minutes of the last match (a 1-0 win over Liverpool). I needed to win and for Chelsea to lose, and their score was 1-1 at the half. When the final whistle blew, the players did their usual arms-raised thing (that's when you know Chelsea had won their last match- your players aren't jumping about like they do when they win a title), and then, there was a brief cut scene of Sutto taking a lap and waving to the crowd. They also mention his retirement ("It is sad to think that we will never see him work his magic on this pitch again") in the section where you can see who the MOtM was. I thought that was a very nice gesture on Konami's part for retiring players. I'd considered suggesting it in this thread, but I didn't think it was all that important. Still, good to see Konami thought of it on their own.

[Mr. Bee]

All I want is a better Master League that doesnt feel like something concocted for the SNES

[slippy627]

I want all 6 leagues in the ML.