When in doubt - blame Fergie

[Scott the Red]

Wim van Hanegem came out the other day saying that Ruud feels betrayed by Alex Ferguson. He said that Ruud has now realised that Ferguson has a funny way of ditching his biggest stars. “Ruud has seen what happened to Jaap Stam, David Beckham, and Roy Keane”

So what did happen to these players, which is now happening to Ruud?

Jaap Stam
One of the best defenders in the world, a great player who made all the difference to United. But Fergie soon got fed up with him so pushed him out of the team for a £6mill profit.And we won’t believe it’s any other way than that, because Ferguson has a temper on him and makes random, impulsive decisions.

However, people seem to forget that he released a book whilst still a United, saying pretty slanderous things about United. The Nevilles were 'busy c**** for their endless grumbling about everything in general and nothing in particular. They never stop.' Alex Ferguson had illegally 'tapped him up' while he was at PSV and had instructed players to dive in Europe.

Surprisingly, Fergie wasn’t too keen on him after this and got rid. Stam failed a drugs test 2 months later, and served a 5 month ban.

David Beckham
He loved Manchester United, grew up supporting them, and it was a dream come true when he joined the youth team. Then Ferguson got annoyed with him, kicked a boot at his head, and forced Beckham out.And it’s as simple as that, right? Wrong.

United offered Beckham the wages he demanded straight away, only for Beckham to sit and renegotiate his contract over image rights for EIGHTEEN months. Whilst still a United player, he came out and said ”I’ve never said I would always be in Manchester, and I’ve certainly never said I would end my career there,” as he clearly knew he was ready to leave.

The transfer window opened, and he signed for Real Madrid straight away. “The deal was too good to turn down,” he said, which is reinforcing how important playing for a club he loved was over earning more money was, right?

If Fergie did "force" him out, then he was right to do so. How quick we are to forget the lack of ambition in Beckham’s game that season, the new haircuts every couple of months, the constant photographs of him out and about, and all over advertising campaigns. It’s much easier to look back and block those things out, and blame Ferguson, isn’t it?

Roy Keane
Loyal servant to United. Spent the best years of his career there, some of them as captain, helping to bring United glory. Fergie figured Keane was getting too big for his boots, so forced him out.

I love Roy Keane, and he is one of the greatest, most important players United have ever had. But I dont believe any United player, should go on to MUTV and have a rant about how useless his team mates are. He was right, the midfield were piss poor. But it was not his place to say anything. Just like it wouldn’t have been another team mates place to give Roy a hard time for all the crucial games he missed through suspension that could have cost us big time (eg. 1999, yellow card against Juve, and the sending off in the Arsenal semi final, 20 minutes before the end of normal time, meaning we played for almost an hour with 10 men).

Keane was told that he wasn’t going to get his contract renewed, whether this be based on the fact he’d had this rant, or the fact he was 34 with a knackered hip, or the fact that United needed to move on and stop clinging to the past. He hit the roof and had a big row with Carlos, which resulted in him storming out and leaving the club.

Ruud Van Nistelrooy

Pledged to spend the rest of his career at United. A world class striker, one of the best to ever play in Europe, who is a clinical finisher in the box. Then Ferguson drops him for no reason, and leaves him out of the team for the last game of the season.

How dare this van Hanegem talk of how Ruud feels betrayed. Ask any United player (or even rival fans for that matter) who would you want playing for you up front in a big game, and the answer would be Ruud. So a few games before the end of the season, when United, for the first time in a couple of years, have the tiniest glimpse of the Premiership title, Ruud gets brought back in to the team. United 2 Arsenal 0. Brilliant. But where was Ruud? Where was Ruud when we drew 0-0 to Sunderland at home? Or when we drew 0-0 with Middlesborough? Or when we lost 3-0 to Chelsea? I didn’t see him, did you?

Ruud has been sulking for a good month or so now. I was happy to see Beckham leave after his performance significantly dropped, and he strutted around like he was too big for the club. You’ll remember the pictures of him on the bench, sulking. Ruud has had a similar attitude. Does he not believe he has to earn his first team place, just as Louis has strived to do all this season?

If/when Ruud leaves this summer, you’ll be hearing the names Stam, Beckham and Keane more and more. Ruud will be listed as joining “their club”. I don’t agree with every decision Ferguson has made when it comes to our team, but when it comes to these players mentioned above, I’m 100% behind him. Nobody is bigger than this team of ours, and the sooner our “superstars” start realising that, the better.



Full article found here (http://republikofmancunia.blogspot.com/2006/05/when-in-doubt-blame-fergie.html).

[benni...]

Keane was told that he wasn’t going to get his contract renewed, whether this be based on the fact he’d had this rant, or the fact he was 34 with a knackered hip, or the fact that United needed to move on and stop clinging to the past. He hit the roof and had a big row with Carlos, which resulted in him storming out and leaving the club.

Fergie only has himself to blame for the Keane incident.

[Numquam Moribimur]

Blaming Fergie tends to be the ultra cool thing to do on this board :rolleyes:



Btw = Top article:)

[benni...]

Blaming Fergie seems to be the ultra cool thing to do on this board :rolleyes:



Btw = Top article:)


If its not Fergie's fault as to why Keane was relied upon to long, and given a contract exstention, when it was clear he was coming down from his peak at a faster rate that expected?

[Achtung]

The article makes sense until this paragraph:

Ruud has been sulking for a good month or so now. I was happy to see Beckham leave after his performance significantly dropped, and he strutted around like he was too big for the club. You’ll remember the pictures of him on the bench, sulking. “I’m David Beckham, I should never be dropped.” Ruud has had a similar attitude. Does he not believe he has to earn his first team place, just as Louis has strived to do all this season?

Comparing Ruud to Beckham? Sorry but that holds no weight for me. Ruud hasn't become consumed by his own image. Has Ruud's "performance significantly dropped"? Really? A couple of games late in the year, albeit against poor opposition, are supposed to be a sign of that? Look at his scoring record prior to being dropped. And we all know Ruud hasn't stopped caring for the club to concentrate on his country like Beckham did, which makes sense as half the Dutch fans don't care for Ruud in the first place.

Ruud hadn't said anything in the media until after the season ended. He's always kept his mouth shut, gone along with Fergie, and pledged his love for the club. The attitude that Ruud has had through the past few seasons is nothing like Beckham's towards the end of his tenure with the club. The whole claim that Ruud has been "sulking" has always irritated me as well. Is he supposed to look like a kid in a candy store while sitting on the bench? He's a world-class player--he wants to play more than anything else.

Believe me, I've defended Fergie for selling Stam after his book excerpts, and for sacking Keane after his television rant and after it was becoming obvious that we needed to move past relying on Keane and his oft-knackered body to carry the team. But really, unless we get more information that Ruud has been undermining the attitude of the club somehow, this remains an apples to oranges comparison.

Does Fergie deserve to have his opinions and decisions respected? Of course. That doesn't mean though that he'll be infallible in our eyes, and his decisions will still be scrutinized rather than followed blindly.

[Numquam Moribimur]

If its not Fergie's fault as to why Keane was relied upon to long, and given a contract exstention, when it was clear he was coming down from his peak at a faster rate that expected?



Benni! even though Keano was on his down fall , he was still better then 3/4 of the MF and at times made Gerrard look like a school boy ;)

[benni...]

Benni! even though Keano was on his down fall , he was still better then 3/4 of the MF and at times made Gerrard look like a school boy ;)

So what happend to the other quarter?

[littleman]

Wim van Hanegem came out the other day saying that Ruud feels betrayed by Alex Ferguson. He said that Ruud has now realised that Ferguson has a funny way of ditching his biggest stars. “Ruud has seen what happened to Jaap Stam, David Beckham, and Roy Keane”
of ours, and the sooner our “superstars” start realising that, the better.

I agree with alot of it, I suppose, except for Keane.

F*CK ANYONE THAT POOPS ON MY KEANO!!!!!!!!!!! I mean, I know he was a mere shadow of his former self, and that there were midfielders in the premiership better than he. But midfielders in the team better than Keano? ... F*ckno. Ironically, he showed both his strengths and weakness at Celtic, powering their midfield and exercising the most precise of passes (which in the absence of Scholes, we entirely lacked) and winning MoTM several times. His weakness, was his proneness to injury.. he spent about 6 weeks on the sidelines for Celtic.

In all, don't take my view too seriously because I'm partial to my Keano :D

[littleman]

So what happend to the other quarter?

He got his eye injured.

[Achtung]

In all, don't take my view too seriously because I'm partial to my Keano :D

No, I think we're all incredibly partial towards Keano. No one wanted to see him leave this club, even if it had been at the end of the season with a proper send-off. His influence was invaluable and irreplaceable really, and we've heard Fergie come out and say that there is basically no "Keane replacement". What he did for the club... it can't even be quantified. But in his case, there were tangible, demonstrated reasons for his departure. In Ruud's case, it seems to all be rumor and conjecture and a lot of jumping to conclusions. I suppose we don't have all of the facts, but that's as much reason not to assume anything about this situation.

[Invincible]

yawn...

Look, Some of us decide to side with the players, and others decide to side with Ferguson. If the Fergie cheerleaders figure that Ferguson can do no wrong, they're just as bad as those who blames him for everything bad that happens.

Quite frankly I feel that the Ruud and Beckham situations were really unneccessary. You kick a boot in someone's face and do God knows what else to them, do you expect them to come and say "Ohhh yesum sir I'll work myself into the ground for you!!!" Do you expect to have their full loyalty? Beckham is a grown man with pride and limits, when you past those limits he says ******** you I dont care anymore. Now we haven't had half decent crossing and set pieces yet.

As for Ruud, the team obviously played better with Saha in it, but he could've at least played Ruud alongside Saha and given Rooney a rest because Rooney clearly needed it. Nope, he let the EPL leading goalscorer rot on the bench, let Rooney run himself into the ground and now this whole ugly situation come s up. You dont just drop your in form top scorer for no effing reason, then expect him to obey you like a dog. You play it smart and know how your players will react and manage accordingly. If you know a player sulks why drop him so frequently? Now we might solve our midfield problem, but we'll have a striking problem AGAIN and the whole viscious cycle will continue. Next it will be Ferdinand who 'falls out' with the manager and a hole in our defence will pop up. Really unneccessary. KNOW your players. KNOW how they react and MANAGE accordingly.

[Motterman]

I think Fergie dropped Ruud for the cup final, to give him a wake up call and challenge Ruud to react in the right way by re-applying himself in training and forcing himself back into the first team. I think Ruud's performances since that day have been lacklustre - except for that one game he came on to score a goal - I recall Fergie himself in his postmatch interview saying that this is the type of reaction and attitude he was wanting to see from Ruud. However, something behind the scenes must not be right, as he rarely performed at that level since.

Fergie challenged Ruud, because he wanted to motivate the player, make him earn his place, etc.

But because Ruud did not respond how Fergie wanted, we're to blame Fergie?

As for Keane, I think it's a case of "The King is dead, long live the King". You weren't going to bring in another player that has anywhere near the influential presence that Keane had, while he was still here.

Stam and Becks were pretty much recapped fairly in the article as well....

[benni...]

But because Ruud did not respond how Fergie wanted, we're to blame Fergie?Yes you do blame Fergie. Ruud lost sharpness, while sitting on the bench, and Im sure that was to be expected though.

As for Keane, I think it's a case of "The King is dead, long live the King". You weren't going to bring in another player that has anywhere near the influential presence that Keane had, while he was still here.

You had to. Either that, or sell, or drop Roy Keane. Big sacrafice, but it had to be made sooner or later.

[Stud83]

Speaking purely from footballing perspective, I did feel bad about losing Beckham, as I thought he still had at least 3-4 good years left in him, and while Fergie had problems over his image, Beckham was exremely important to making MU the richest club in the world and generating huge revenues (if anyone was worth 70M, it's him). I don't think he ever challenged Fergie publicly, even after the flying boot or him being left out off the starting line-up for Real Madrid game. Plus, it's not like we had any replacement for him - Ronaldo was (and still is) a work in progress. So I do (and I did) question that decision at the time. I also think Beckham wanted to stay - he did sign with Real but it only happened after Manchester and Barcelona agree to terms on his transfer, without letting him know.


As far as losing Stam - we did get Rio very soon afterwards, so I don't think it hurt us that bad on the field. Plus - you release a scandalous book, you should expect to get kicked out. Keano was at the twilight of his career and it was clear we needed a replacement anyways. I fully agree with the piece of the article on him.

As far Ruud - I am extremely disappointed by his actions before the last game of the season. Whatever other players did - they did that off the field, writing books, going to night clubs, critisizing players, etc. When the game was on, they always came ready to play, and regardless of how they felt about managerial decisions, they kept quiet and did whatever they were told to. I don't see any problem whatsoever with leaving your best scorer off the field for a certain period, especially when the team is playing well without him and on a winning run.

So unless some new info comes out, I wouldn't blame Fergie for whatever happens to Ruud, as he has every right now to kick him off the team (looks like it's more or less a done deal).

[benni...]

As far Ruud - I am extremely disappointed by his actions before the last game of the season.

He was asked to leave Old Trafford, not that he walked out.

[Stud83]

He was asked to leave Old Trafford, not that he walked out.

Which means it was warranted by his action(s).

[bestbecks]

Fergie is a terrific manager, we all know that. He's got a brilliant footballing mind, almost like a sixth sense. But in all honesty he's not the best of man managers.It seems as if his temper gets the best of him sometimes. But He's fergie, and we forgive him because eventually it turns out for the better of the club.

[McIvs]

the problem with rvn is that fergie is not putting him in the first 11 anymore. and he has had a bust up with cristiano ronaldo.

[Lancashire Lad]

Fergie has a fantastic record. So he must have done something right!

But equally he does make mistakes. 4-5-1 springs to mind.

When you are successful you take the praise, when you are not you need to roll with the punches.

Everyone has their opinion on football, its one of the great things about the game.

Some of the transfers have been great others not. The search for the new Keane is becoming a huge joke. There will never be another Keane, but there will be a............

As they say there are two sides to every story.

I recommend the Lee Sharpe book, it gives an interesting insight into United and Fergie.

oh and by the way I had to two American christian missionaries call round today, do they think we English are godless or something?

[Jayhawk]

oh and by the way I had to two American christian missionaries call round today, do they think we English are godless or something?
Don't worry, I see them too, and I live in the buckle of the Bible belt. You should see their reax when I tell them I'm Catholic. :eek:

As for Fergie, he is both hot-tempered and old-fashioned. He is the king and is quick to shout "Off with your head!" when someone asserts himself. However, I don't think he is necessarily running players off. He has been indulgent with some players.

Stam had to go because you can't keep a player around when he is writing negative, slanderous and personal things about the club and those in it. It means he is bigger than the club, and has been said here above, you can't have that.

Beckham had to go for the same reason I and everyone else hear had to move out of their parents' house: to keep people who love one another from driving each other insane. He and SAF had been so close for so long, but as Becks grew bigger and bigger it became a tense relationship. Besides, it must have been tempting for a player like him to try his luck on the continent. Being a Galactico made a degree of sense.

Ruud, well he did seem to have a bit of a diva attitude at times, and was fading a bit. I found myself feeling about him this year the way I felt about Andy Cole: that for all those goals he poured in, he didn't seem like the one to bang in the winner against a top opponent. At least not in the last couple of years.

Hopefully we can get some cash for him and put it to good use, but that brings about another worry: that Fergie's eye for talent is dodgy these days.