US vs Poland in 2002

[pkfooty]

Not to harp on really bad memories, but I was wondering what people thought was the reason for us getting rocked by Poland in 2002. I have only seen the match once.

[Nerazzuri]

1) We were horrible at defending set pieces throughout the cup, and two of their goals came from set peices.

2) Jeff Agoos was on the field.

3) The team found themselves in unexpected territory; in control of their own destiny with a game to play. Didn't handle the sudden pressure well. Also, ran into a team with nothing to lose.

4) Jeff Agoos was on the field.

5) Questionable officiating early on not only stole a goal from the US (which would have been an equalizer at 1-1), but led directly to Poland's 2nd goal. Thinking you've equalized so quickly, only to give up a goal, and go from 1-1 to 2-0, is quite a punch to the gut.

6) Jeff Agoos was on the field.

7) A bit of bad luck; Donovan's early goal taken away from us, and we hit at least one post (maybe two, I'd have to rewatch it).

[E Diddy]

Funny, I just watched the first half of that game again this morning.

Donovan's "foul" on his goal that was called back was questionable at best. After that, I think Poland seemed to surge and took advantage of our frustration.

Oh, also, Jeff Agoos was on the field :)

E Diddy

[Harper916]

Not sure if anybody mentioned it, but Jeff Agoos was on the field.

[hirtme]

LOL - it is a team game and you can't blame it on one player but . . . . . . . .


has anyone mentioned - Jeff Agoos was on the field:eek:

[dmike]

Jeff Agoos was playing btw

[tab5g]

anything can happen in a match.

the loss to Poland would haunt us fans if S.Korea hadn't done us a huge favor and allowed us to sneak into the second round.

as for the called foul on Donovan that disallowed his goal, I actually thought it was the correct call, and I would want refs to make that type of call again if the shoe were on the other foot.

[WarriorSoccer]

One point that I don't think anyone has really mentioned is that Jeff Agoos was on the field, I'm surprised that people missed that fact.

Other than that, just about everything has been touched on, there was poor defense on set pieces which really killed us.

Also, after the US got down by two Poland just stacked it in on the backline.

Poland also started 6 players who hadn't played yet, so they were much fresher.

One person who I thought hurt us a little was Hejduk. He played pretty decent defense, but his distribution was horrible, even for him.

One thing that I think Bruce messed up on was that he should have played Bease and Donovan next to each other. Poland's defense was slooooooooow. These guys really had Agoos' speed, and I think if you put the two speedy young guns together they could lit them up.

Mathis hit the post on a volley, I don't think there were any other posts hit. And the US was lucky that they were never down by 5 or 6 because Poland also hit a post on a freak friedle save and he saved a pk.

All-in-all it was just a bad game for the US nothing fell into place for them, true, it coulda been tied 1-1 at one point, negating one Polish goal and adding a US goal, but in all honesty the US didn't deserve a point out of that match, but in the end, it really didnt matter.

[JoseP]

as for the called foul on Donovan that disallowed his goal, I actually thought it was the correct call, and I would want refs to make that type of call again if the shoe were on the other foot.

I'm curious; what would the foul call have been?

[bwach]

Donovan's "foul" on his goal that was called back was questionable at best. After that, I think Poland seemed to surge and took advantage of our frustration.


This bears repeating - it's not just surging and taking advantage. At least 3 or 4 members of the US team were literally arguing with the referee on this call while Poland were bringing the ball up the field to score their second goal.

Shame on the US players for griping like that, I know, but the call was absolutely bush and directly made it nearly impossible for the US to get the result we all thought they needed from this match.

This is not typical sour officiating grapes here either. Donovan was probably 145 pounds at that time and there wasn't even that much traffic in the box. This is not a close offsides call or a typical dive or non-called foul. This is an official creating something out of absolutely nothing.

Here's a quote from this article (http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:scScNVi_aaMJ:worldcup.espnsoccernet.com/report%3Fmatch%3D48855%26lang%3Dus+donovan+foul+poland&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=5)that pretty much sums up the match:

Poland's first goal, just 2 minutes, 45 seconds in, came when Agoos missed his attempt to clear Jacek Krzynowek's corner kick, Olisadebe headed it off U.S. midfielder John O'Brien, the kicked the rebound in off the bottom of the crossbar.

Less than 60 seconds later, Donovan outjumped Arkadiusz Glowacki to head the ball in, but Chinese referee Lu Jun called it back for a push.

"I don't think I'm strong enough to foul that guy,''' the 5-foot-8 Donovan said.

Poland then rushed upfield, and Kryszalowicz scored from inside the 6-yard box, beating Agoos to a pass from Krzynowek.

"You wait all day for this moment and in the first five minutes blow it,'' Stewart said. "It's very painful.''


Edit:
Donovan = HEIGHT: 1.73 M, WEIGHT: 67 Kg
Glowacki = HEIGHT: 1.86 M, WEIGHT: 78 Kg

[tab5g]

I'm curious; what would the foul call have been?

either pushing or obstruction could have been called there, imho (as a non-practicing television-viewing ref-impersonator). Donovan was playing the man, as he waited for the ball to drop down, before tapping in for the disallowed goal.

i'm not sure what the actual call on the field was.
edit with info from the above write-up: "Chinese referee Lu Jun called it back for a push." - and that is a suitable call on that particular play, in my opinion.

[JoseP]

[QUOTE=tab5g]either pushing or obstruction could have been called there, imho (as a non-practicing television-viewing ref-impersonator). Donovan was playing the man, as he waited for the ball to drop down, before tapping in for the disallowed goal.
QUOTE]


Hmm. I don't understand why this would be illegal.

[WarriorSoccer]

The call honestly could have gone either way, but I would guess that 60% of the time that gets called. The reall bad thing though is I believe Donovan could have gotten in position to nod that in without pushing, the defender wasn't in the prime position to play that ball unless he wanted it in the back of the net himself.

[cdin]

as for the called foul on Donovan that disallowed his goal, I actually thought it was the correct call, and I would want refs to make that type of call again if the shoe were on the other foot.
That call could have gone either way. Donovan did technically foul the polish player, but it wasn't a bad foul and I have regularly seen the same type of foul not called.

Personally, I don't see how donovan a fairly small player could large polish defender out of the way so easily. Contact is a part of the game, and if we had a experiance european ref i doubt it would have been called.

[Maximum Optimal]

Poland also started 6 players who hadn't played yet, so they were much fresher.



One of our strengths under Arena has been our scouting of and preparation for opponents. This strength was pretty much eliminated in the Poland game by the coach's decision to dump most of the starters who had played against Korea and Portugal. I think we need to hope Ghana is not in a similar situation by the time we play them.

[StillKickin]

as for the called foul on Donovan that disallowed his goal, I actually thought it was the correct call, and I would want refs to make that type of call again if the shoe were on the other foot.
Well, but they don't come close to calling that foul consistently. I distinctly remember a match shown later that day or the next, the exact same thing occurred and the goal was allowed. I wish I could remember the teams involved, but all I remember is screaming at the TV that it was the same thing as the Donovan goal that was called back.

Therefore, I wish that ref had been reffing our game. :)

[bwach]

One of our strengths under Arena has been our scouting of and preparation for opponents. This strength was pretty much eliminated in the Poland game by the coach's decision to dump most of the starters who had played against Korea and Portugal. I think we need to hope Ghana is not in a similar situation by the time we play them.

What makes me nervous about this statement is that Arena is not planning on changing his approach for Ghana from the approach he had for Poland. Meaning that he's currently not spending time scouting/game planning Ghana because he thinks the two previous games will tell him all he needs to know.

I may need to change my opinion of what a foul is, or re-watch the Poland highlights (for the third time this year), because it seems to me that most posters disagree with my opinion that it was a criminal foul call.

[grandinquisitor28]

Well, but they don't come close to calling that foul consistently. I distinctly remember a match shown later that day or the next, the exact same thing occurred and the goal was allowed. I wish I could remember the teams involved, but all I remember is screaming at the TV that it was the same thing as the Donovan goal that was called back.

Therefore, I wish that ref had been reffing our game. :)

Not sure what the game was. Maybe Denmark-England? Can't remember. Anyway it was an utterly bogus call, totally bogus, the Polish player simulated the foul because he was out maneuvered by a virtual pygamy in comparison, he outweighed Donovan by at least 30-35 pounds, and was at least 4 inches taller. He got punked, and the idiot ref bought his nonsense. If you wanted to, you could blow the whistle on every single corner kick, there are fouls occuring left and right anytime a ball is lifted into the box at congested times, but unless it's blatant, or the ref is foolish (in my view), they let play go on. Donovan scored a perfectly legit goal, and like in yesterdays champions league final, the ref had a direct impact on the entire complexion of the match (I'm not an Arsenal apologist, I just believe that the ref had 3 crucial calls to make in the game and he bumbled every one of them, denying Barcelona the opening goal, harshly sending off Lehman, and then giving Arsenal an utterly bogus free kick on a play that should have earned Eboue a red card for diving (he'd already gotten a yellow earlier). Just a ridiculous call in my view.

I remember reading in a pre-tournament preview magazine about all the teams, and then reading an interesting essay, I forget the title, on what could make or break a great cup and they mentioned reffing. That a horrendous call or two is likely to happen in huge matches, and that it will have a direct bearing on at least a result or two as it always does. In that tournament the horrendous calls never seemed to end begining with Rivaldo's bogus, "My Eye, My Eye," hysterics and continuing through nearly the entirety of the single elimination stage. Hell the US was involved in numerous foul ups (bogus PK given to S. Korea, wrongly disallowed goal against S. Korea, noncall on O'Brien handball against Mexico, bogus non call against Frings, potential bogus offside against Donovan as well in opening minutes (I missed that as I woke up 5 minutes after the game started).

There are three things I really urgently pray for in this cup and that is namely that #1) the US play exceptionally well, #2) the refs have as minute an impact as humanly possible, and #3) that the tournament include plenty of highly entertaining games, finally a great final after numerous crummy ones, and hopefully lots of wonderful play in both the group and single elimination stage. #2 has the unfortunate ability to directly harm both #1 and #3, lets hope the refs dont ruin much of this coming Cup as they did the previous, and the Champions League Final yesterday.

[Nerazzuri]

anything can happen in a match.

the loss to Poland would haunt us fans if S.Korea hadn't done us a huge favor and allowed us to sneak into the second round.

as for the called foul on Donovan that disallowed his goal, I actually thought it was the correct call, and I would want refs to make that type of call again if the shoe were on the other foot.

South Korea didn't do us a favor as much as Portugal did. They completely lost their composure, threatened the ref, got the red card, and (allegedly) tried to pursuade the Koreans to play for a draw at halftime. Granted, the goal scored was a thing of beauty, both technically (perhaps the best goal anyone in South Korean soccer has ever scored) and figuratively, for everyone from the US. But, the fact remains, Portugal ruined their own World Cup. Besides, they didn't deserve to advance, based solely on the tightness of Vitor Baia's shorts.

But, I just rewatched the tape, and noticed something that many fans may not have caught--did anyone see that Jeff Agoos was on the field? Oh, and likewise, Mike Burns was on the field (but not on his post) in France 98.

[WarriorSoccer]

One of our strengths under Arena has been our scouting of and preparation for opponents. This strength was pretty much eliminated in the Poland game by the coach's decision to dump most of the starters who had played against Korea and Portugal. I think we need to hope Ghana is not in a similar situation by the time we play them.

Excellent point, one that I hadn't thought of before. I understand where that is coming from, does anyone have any idea who the new starters were and who was sitting from the 'a' squad? I'd like to see who got left out, now that I think about it.