Disappointing Development

[aupsite's acht]

Might be better served posted in the Youth Nats Forum, however, given the recent naming of our current WC team...

It seems to me that the biggest disappointment of this years team is the lack of young players coming into the squad and making their mark. With the "development" of USA soccer, one would think that such a rapidly developing soccer nation would be producing a bevy of young players pushing the veterans out of the picture.

Threads from just after the 02 cup mentioned players like Pope, McBride, Reyna not having much of a chance to be major contributors in '06 due to age/wear-and-tear, etc. Having said that, my biggest disappointment is the lack of "new blood" on the team in '06. Shouldn't we expect that some "stars-of-the future" will be emerging? (Gooch would be the exception this cycle...perhaps Dempsey, but the lack of competition at the RM spot probably played a bigger role)

The reliance on a 34 year old McBride, and frightening lack of depth behind him seems absurd. Eddie Lewis, arguably our third best LM being our best option at LB? - You've got to be kidding me!! Heyduk's inclusion on the roster...come on, we can't find someone that offers some talent to go along with work rate, hustle and team-first attitude?

The out-of-control hype surrounding Adu and to some degree EJ, I think, is a reflection of the many soccer followers out there that are just crying for a player or two who are indeed "world class".

So my questions are these...Are there "stars of the future" who might make an impact in 2010? And why is there a lack of those players in 2006?

[Celo's Bicycle]

I agree that it is a little bit surprising and disappointing in the following sense:

If you could have told me right after the 2002 World Cup what our roster would be for the 2006 Cup, I would have been surprised at the dearth of newcomers.

What are the reasons, and how important are they relative to each other?

1. Some talented young American players did not develop as much as we would have hoped.

2. Some of our most talented young players were already in the team in 2002, and they are still young now.

3. Some veteran players have held on to a greater level of form than might have been predicted.

4. Bruce Arena is tending to stick with what he knows and is not taking enough risks with younger players, or did not do enough to integrate younger talent into the national team in the last four years.

[TxFan]

So my questions are these...Are there "stars of the future" who might make an impact in 2010? And why is there a lack of those players in 2006?

I'm not as pessimistic as you. There are a lot of young stars. The fact that they didn't make the 23 man roster isn't necessarily an indictment of their playing abilities or an admission that we don't have any stars of the future. A lot of factors go into picking the 23 man roster: coaches try to fill particular positions, find players who work well together, or who contribute in a certain way. Don't take the 23 man roster as some sort of comprehensive statement on the health/talent of our soccer prospects.

The list of players who could have made the team and not done any harm is quite long: Don't forget about Whitbread, Spector, Demerit (maybe even Simek). I think any of them could have taken the last defender spot.

As for the midfield: Donovan, Beasley, Convey, Dempsey? They are YOUNG and will be the core of the midfield for a long time to come. At the most, we might see 3 or 4 young players get their chance in each Cup. The four years between cups is much shorter than the span of a player's career. I'm not sure how many young stars you were expecting to see in 2006, but we've got Onyewu, Convey, Dempsey and Eddie Johnson. Adding four young stars every cup seems about right...

[DaPrince84]

im disapointed also... I really believed in Martino and Gaven... we arent developing players... the only NEW guys to join the fold is really Dempsey and Johnson, and Johnson has been unimpressive (Convey and Oyewu were both on the U-17 team in 1999)...

Though we havent developed players, Bruce Arena has to take some heat for not selecting them... he stuck with Convey who sucked for 2 years, but didnt stick with Gaven and a few others... u feel me?

[IndividualEleven]

What's the working definition of 'young' being used here?

[aupsite's acht]

Perhaps the most concerning thing is the lack of young players on the cusp of breaking in. Adu, Altidore, Gaven, Szetela, Nguyen, Spector...can we honestly say any of these guys (or others not named here) WILL be impact players in 2010? Or do we pin our hopes on the continued development and improvement of Beasley, Convey, Donovan, Gooch, Dempsey and Johnson?

[USAin2006]

The list of players who could have made the team and not done any harm is quite long: Don't forget about Whitbread, Spector, Demerit (maybe even Simek). I think any of them could have taken the last defender spot.

I agree about Spector (though if I'm not mistaken, DeMerit isn't young -- I think he is in his mid-20's at least). Spector, before his injury, I think would have made the side with his late season form...despite not having played since the Scotland friendly (I think)

[TxFan]

im disapointed also... I really believed in Martino and Gaven... we arent developing players... the only NEW guys to join the fold is really Dempsey and Johnson, and Johnson has been unimpressive (Convey and Oyewu were both on the U-17 team in 1999)...

Though we havent developed players, Bruce Arena has to take some heat for not selecting them... he stuck with Convey who sucked for 2 years, but didnt stick with Gaven and a few others... u feel me?

For all those who are disappointed, how many new players were you expecting to see on the 23 man roster? At some level, sure it would be great to develop our young players and sending them to the World Cup would be an AMAZING learning opporunity, but at what expense? Giving up our chance to enjoy any present day success??

There are four players who will get their first taste at significant playing time at the World Cup: Onyewu, Dempsey, Convey and Johnson. All four of them have the chance to establish themselves over the next four years and be starters in 2010 (in my personal opinion Onyeu, Convey and EJ will be starters in 2010)... that's not bad for "player development"...

[peabrainedidiot]

im disapointed also... I really believed in Martino and Gaven... we arent developing players... the only NEW guys to join the fold is really Dempsey and Johnson, and Johnson has been unimpressive (Convey and Oyewu were both on the U-17 team in 1999)...

Though we havent developed players, Bruce Arena has to take some heat for not selecting them... he stuck with Convey who sucked for 2 years, but didnt stick with Gaven and a few others... u feel me?imo, gavin still has a shot to get there. I had such high hopes for Martino, he's just never repeated that early success.
The kids down at the u-20 and u-17 look promising (even though they fell a little short at the youth championship)

[Paco Joe]

It's really easy to overestimate what a promising young prospect can do when he gets older. We do have a lot of promising young players in the pipeline, but how many of them will satisfy our expectations? Not many.

Personally, I'm worried we might not even be AS good in 2010 as we are now. Most signs I've seen seem to indicate that we'll have more attacking talent four years from now, but seriously, how sure can I be?

What I AM sure of is that we'll have to find replacements for some EXTREMELY key elements if we want to count on having an improved team in 2010, namely:

Claudio Reyna
Brian McBride
John O'Brien (he won't be that old, but seriously, should we assume he'll be healthy?)

and:

Bruce Arena

[TxFan]

I agree about Spector (though if I'm not mistaken, DeMerit isn't young -- I think he is in his mid-20's at least). Spector, before his injury, I think would have made the side with his late season form...despite not having played since the Scotland friendly (I think)

My bad, you are right: according to yanks-abroad he is 26. Oops... I always thought he was younger for some reason...

[aupsite's acht]

The list of players who could have made the team and not done any harm is quite long: Don't forget about Whitbread, Spector, Demerit (maybe even Simek). I think any of them could have taken the last defender spot.

My point being that adding players good enough to make the team (i.e. Ching, Albright, Wolff, etc) doesn't relly improve the team. Where are the impact guys.

As for the midfield: Donovan, Beasley, Convey, Dempsey? They are YOUNG and will be the core of the midfield for a long time to come. At the most, we might see 3 or 4 young players get their chance in each Cup. The four years between cups is much shorter than the span of a player's career. I'm not sure how many young stars you were expecting to see in 2006, but we've got Onyewu, Convey, Dempsey and Eddie Johnson. Adding four young stars every cup seems about right...[/QUOTE]

A good point. Perhaps when one considers Donovan and Beasley "prematurely" coming onto the scene in '02, and includes them to Onyewu, you've got three impact guys (jury still out on inconsistent other three). I guess by impact, I'm talking about players that are dangerous on the field (and not to themselves or in a Heydude, two-studded tackle kind of way:)

[FuzzyForeigner]

oh crap a new development out of cary...huge fight about some youth player not making the team...

http://www.ibiblio.org/footy/2006c/0517_usmnt_sab/web_01_sab.jpg

[Chris in SoCal]

How about Eskandarian? Does he stand a chance of earning a call-up after the Cup? He's certainly off to a good start this year in MLS.

[JohnR]

If you could have told me right after the 2002 World Cup what our roster would be for the 2006 Cup, I would have been surprised at the dearth of newcomers.

We should unearth a late '02 thread to see what people were saying at the time. I've kinda forgotten.

But it seems to me according to expectations. EJ, Dempsey, Convey, Gibbs, and Gooch were all teenagers last time around, with only Convey ever being capped. Ching was also uncapped although a bit older, Albright was a young guy who was so far out of the national team picture so as to qualify as an outsider, and Olsen was a youngish semi-outsider. Plus, you had several young players with limited or moderate national team exposure who you knew would be coming back if healthy -- Donovan, Beasley, Mastro, Boca, JOB, Cherundolo.

I will say, though, that I'm surprised that Reyna, Pope, and McBride are expected to be starters. I would have said 2 out of 3 at most. It is disappointing that a younger player has not stepped in to take the job away from at least one of those guys.

[IndividualEleven]

I was a watching an inexcrable Crew game last year when Martino
committed a I-don't-feel-like-playing-anymore foul to draw
his second yellow. While walking off the field he removed
his jersey to reveal the upper body of an 9 year old girl.
The kind of work ethic that results in a body like that isn't
going to produce a Nats regular let alone standout.

[Dave216J]

I'm confused by this thread - we're not bringing in enough young players? I'll assume you didn't want Beasley or Donovan or the other just unearthed folks to be supplanted; looking through our roster now:

we're younger at right back (Cherundolo vs. Sanneh)
we're younger at center back (Pope/Gibbs/Gooch vs. Pope then, Agoos, Llamosa; Bocanegra vs. Berhalter)
we have no left back, but neither Hejduk nor Regis was particularly young then

In midfield, Dempsey is much younger than Stewart, Convey than Lewis was, and the other five main contributors are a) still young and b) the same players

Up front, McBride is still McBride, and EJ is much younger than Joe-Max Moore was.

So basically, unless you're lamenting the fact that Reyna/O'Brien/Mastroeni/Beasley/Donovan have not been supplanted by still younger players, we have gotten younger at every position where we don't still have the same player, and most of them young and in their primes. Only Reyna, McBride, and Keller can be considered old by most definitions, and Keller is a special case anyway as a keeper. Our wings, second striker, reserve winger and striker, most center backs, and right back are under 25 (not sure on Stevie C). That's a lot younger than last time!

[NBlue]

"new" "young" players likely to play a role in '06 & '10:

Convey
Dempsey
Johnson
Onyewu


All of these players are under 25 and have a good chance to start along with other "young" players Donovan & Beasley. Together, these players form a very nice nucleus likely playing in at least one additional cup together.

Additionally, I think its particularly hard for you to make this criticims in central defense, where the US actually has 4 world cup rookies out of the five selected for the position (Pope, Gibbs, Gooch, Boca and Conrad). Its hard to ask for much more new blood than that.

If there is one area that I would agree with you its certainly at the forward position where, admittedly, we have not been able to have a bevy of players step up -- yet. However, Johnson's initial run before his injury was the best run of any US forward in recent memory and, it seems to me, too many people are discounting that completely now due to his injury and his relative sluggishness in regaining form.

Finally, I think in the coming years we will see some of our younger attacking players becoming mainstays on the USMNT. Between Arvizu, Adu, Zimmerman, Casey, Cooper and potentially Nguyen, there is certainly a youthful potential for superior forward play at future world cups . . .

[VBSoccerFan]

What's the working definition of 'young' being used here?

It must mean teenagers. One-quarter of the roster is 24 or younger. Eleven of the players on the roster were not on the 2002 roster. That's half. I'm not sure what people want. Do they want 15 new players, 10 of them teenagers? I mean, I don't see how the data supports this concern about young players and new players.

I see it as a GOOD thing we're not bringing any 18-year-olds. We're bringing exciting young players like Johnson, Dempsey, Convey to their first Cup at 22-23 years old. These guys are more mature than any 18-year-old, but still bring that spark of youth. We have two Cup veterans at 24 years old. These guys are young. They still have ANOTHER Cup in their prime after this one.

I shake my head sometimes. It seems people think it's a good thing to bring unknown qualities to the Cup. Well, I disagree. Arena is bringing 6 young guys that he knows a lot about, because he's seen them train and play for him.

[IndividualEleven]

I will say, though, that I'm surprised that Reyna, Pope, and McBride are expected to be starters. I would have said 2 out of 3 at most. It is disappointing that a younger player has not stepped in to take the job away from at least one of those guys.

Gibbs is a better player than Pope.

Buddle and Mathis...ahhh what could have been.