CL Final: Which way better? [R]

[Excape Goat]

Forget about the question how the red handle the CALL. There are plenty of threads around here to discuss it.

I want to see to discuss on Barcelona's point of view. Forget about the final result. Imagine the game still remains goalless at the 18th minute mark.
Which way benefits them more?

a) Send the keeper off and remain goalless

b) Get the goal and remains 11 vs 11.

[dsk_oz]

Grab the goal .. if you go up one, it forces the opposition to attack you more and you get more opportunities for a counter.

On the other hand, losing a player will make the opposition draw back and play for the draw .. much harder for you to win then.

But that's not considering the shaky Barcelona defence, so it might be an issue to encourage Arsenal to attack you.

[Spartak]

C.) Give the goal and a red card.

[sinner78]

C.) Give the goal and a red card.


The tackle on its own wasnt enough for a straight red.
in that situation you can only send a player off for denying a clear scoring opportunity.
so if barca put the ball in the net you cant say that he denied a goal with the challenge. Arse had some covering defenders anyway so it aint 100% that he wouldve scored had he danced around lehman.

[Spartak]

The tackle on its own wasnt enough for a straight red.
in that situation you can only send a player off for denying a clear scoring opportunity.
so if barca put the ball in the net you cant say that he denied a goal with the challenge. Arse had some covering defenders anyway so it aint 100% that he wouldve scored had he danced around lehman.
Please refer to your FIFA manuel, it says no such thing. The red card would be for Lehman being the last man taking down Eto'o. If your the last man and you intentionally(watch the replay Lehman reaches back and clips Eto'o) then it is a red card. It doesn't matter if Barca scores or not. It just like if a player goes in hard with his studs up high it doesn't matter if he actually makes contact with him or not it's still a foul. You can argue that the ref should have given a yellow and a goal because he felt it would be too harsh on Arsenal to give a red and a goal. But by the rules of the game it should have been a red and a goal.

[sinner78]

Please refer to your FIFA manuel, it says no such thing. The red card would be for Lehman being the last man taking down Eto'o. If your the last man and you intentionally(watch the replay Lehman reaches back and clips Eto'o) then it is a red card. It doesn't matter if Barca scores or not. It just like if a player goes in hard with his studs up high it doesn't matter if he actually makes contact with him or not it's still a foul. You can argue that the ref should have given a yellow and a goal because he felt it would be too harsh on Arsenal to give a red and a goal. But by the rules of the game it should have been a red and a goal.

http://www.wfms.org/Other/Football/FIFA/law12.html


(15) If, in the opinion of the referee, a player who is moving toward his opponent's goal with an obvious opportunity to score a goal is intentionally impeded by an opponent, through unlawful means, i.e. an offense punishable by a free kick (or a PK), thus denying the attacking player's team the aforesaid goal-scoring opportunity, the offending player shall be sent off the field of play for serious foul play in accordance with Law 12(n).



NO ,you check the FIFA manual.
pedantic nitpicker .
the whole idea of the red is the denial of the goalscoring chance.

[Spartak]

http://www.wfms.org/Other/Football/FIFA/law12.html


(15) If, in the opinion of the referee, a player who is moving toward his opponent's goal with an obvious opportunity to score a goal is intentionally impeded by an opponent, through unlawful means, i.e. an offense punishable by a free kick (or a PK), thus denying the attacking player's team the aforesaid goal-scoring opportunity, the offending player shall be sent off the field of play for serious foul play in accordance with Law 12(n).



NO ,you check the FIFA manual.
pedantic nitpicker .
the whole idea of the red is the denial of the goalscoring chance.
Umm, did Lehman not stop Eto'o's goal scoring chance? Because if he doesn't bring down Eto'o he walks in for the goal.

[sinner78]

Umm, did Lehman not stop Eto'o's goal scoring chance? Because if he doesn't bring down Eto'o he walks in for the goal.


jeez christ.
Did you read that last post?


(15) If, in the opinion of the referee, a player who is moving toward his opponent's goal with an obvious opportunity to score a goal is intentionally impeded by an opponent, through unlawful means, i.e. an offense punishable by a free kick (or a PK), thus denying the attacking player's team the aforesaid goal-scoring opportunity, the offending player shall be sent off the field of play for serious foul play in accordance with Law 12(n).


do I have to bold the part where it says "denying the team the chance to score"?
barca followed up the ball into the damn net and thus were not denied the chance to score.
Or is there a mystery rule in the FIFA handbook which states your version?
cuz I aint seen it.


the ref can either
1)play the advantage and allow the goal
2)pull back play and send off the offender

there is no 3rd option to pull out a red card and allow the goal (unless the tackle was particularly brutal ,which it wasnt in this case)

[Excape Goat]

Whatever.... it seemed that almost everyone agreed that Barcelona actually got screwed on that play.

[sinner78]

Whatever.... it seemed that almost everyone agreed that Barcelona actually got screwed on that play.

and arsenal obviously got "aided" with playing with 10 men for 70 minutes.
yeah that was a real boost for them.
what a favour.

[Excape Goat]

and arsenal obviously got "aided" with playing with 10 men for 70 minutes.
yeah that was a real boost for them.
what a favour.

So if it was the other around.... if Henry rounded off the Barcelona keeper, do you want the goal or the red card for the keeper????

I hate Barcelona. I really thought Arsenal escaped with only a red card. It was a goal.

[sinner78]

So if it was the other around.... if Henry rounded off the Barcelona keeper, do you want the goal or the red card for the keeper????


its down to the ref aint it??
he can either
1)play the advantage and let the goal stand
2)send off the player and pull play back



personally for me ,sending off a player ruins the game .so I say "play the advantage" .
arsenal didnt get helped by playing with 10 men in any way ,shape or form.
pretty much forces them to bunker for the whole game.

[Excape Goat]

its down to the ref aint it??
he can either
1)play the advantage and let the goal stand
2)send off the player and pull play back



personally for me ,sending off a player ruins the game .so I say "play the advantage" .

I rethink things over. I would have wanted the goal as well. In American football, the coach is allowed to decide to take the points or the foul. The coach almost always takes the point. It would be a different game of Barcelona took a 1-nil lead after that play. We will never know if Arsenal can take the lead because they will approach the game differently. Or Henry got two 1-on-1 chance to seal the game. Or Etoo would score again in the 70th minute. Certainly, the go-ahead goal would not happen.

[sinner78]

I rethink things over. I would have wanted the goal as well. In American football, the coach is allowed to decide to take the points or the foul. The coach almost always takes the point. It would be a different game of Barcelona took a 1-nil lead after that play. We will never know if Arsenal can take the lead because they will approach the game differently. Or Henry got two 1-on-1 chance to seal the game. Or Etoo would score again in the 70th minute. Certainly, the go-ahead goal would not happen.


sending off the player killed the game.
forced arsenal to bunker and hope for a goal from a set-piece or counter attack.
Give Barca the goal and see if arsenal can make a comeback with 11 men on the pitch .
wouldve been a better final.

[nicephoras]

I think the ref was justified making either decision pursuant to the rules of the game. He just failed to use common sense. It should have been a goal and a yellow.
And sinner, c'mon - had Giuly not scored, that is a clear red. Lehmann has to know better than to grab the foot of a striker who's gone past him. In that situtation, you concede the goal and hope you score one. Playing with 10 men against Barca is hard. We know. :(

[Excape Goat]

sending off the player killed the game.
forced arsenal to bunker and hope for a goal from a set-piece or counter attack.
Give Barca the goal and see if arsenal can make a comeback with 11 men on the pitch .
wouldve been a better final.

We all know that. It would be a better game. But I thought you said take the goal if the revese happened... henry rounded off Victor Vades!!! So Barcelona got screwed!!!