Too Much Offense

[Soccernethost]

Gomez, Eskandarian, Adu, Mediate and Moreno are five primarily offensive players, none of whom play meaningful defense.

That's not a knock on them, they're all Forwards or M/Fs. But why are we starting all five? Does that strike anyone else as strange?

Move Gros back to right mid and get Prideaux back in. Because our defense has been shredded the last couple of games.

[benni...]

True, taht line up was pretty strange to me. Mediate and Gros on the same side at times.

[DutchFootballRulez]

You play your best XI.

[AMERICANS SC]

"The best defense is a good offense!"

[6 ft. Leprechaun]

Gomez, Eskandarian, Adu, Mediate and Moreno are five primarily offensive players, none of whom play meaningful defense.

That's not a knock on them, they're all Forwards or M/Fs. But why are we starting all five? Does that strike anyone else as strange?

Move Gros back to right mid and get Prideaux back in. Because our defense has been shredded the last couple of games.


I definitely disagree with what you've stated. Defense is a team concept, not just the guys in the back. Esky hussles his butt off hassling the opposing teams defense which results in a lot of long balls which 99% of the time our guys easily clean up. Moreno is decent at this as well. Adu has shown a huge improvement not only in his defensive hussle but his positioning as well. Though he has plenty of room to grow in this area.

Mediate is a midfielder and from my perspective from the last game did a decent job of getting back and hassling players. He even said at the half-time interview that he was getting mixed messages. Nowak told him to stay back some and then during the game, the players were telling him to push up more.

Our defense has not been getting shredded. At times they have looked a little disorganized but they only let in one goal last game and that was a PK. Other than that, KC (the first place team playing 3 forwards) was fairly limited to in their chances on goal. I'm going to write up the Colorado game as...well a bad game. Even with that, they only had two real shots on goal. A PK and a defensive lapse that resulted in a goal.

From my perspective, the team defense is doing well. Can it do better? Absolutely.

[Sundevil9]

I think this falls into the 'United will have many looks this year' category.

Peter went with an attacking lineup. I wouldn't say that the team defense was stellar, but I also wouldn't call it pourous.

I think that Gomez and Moreno did a decent job of slowing down (not stopping, just hindering) KC. Adu started to figure it out more in the second half. And Moreno did an excellent job in helping Mediate off the ball. He was direcing Dominic for most of the first half, as to whom to cover and where to be.

With Mediate and Gros, United used the entire width of the pitch for the first time since Earnie Stewart left. Which also spread out KC's attack.

[Sundevil9]

[QUOTE=6 ft. Leprechaun

Our defense has not been getting shredded. At times they have looked a little disorganized but they only let in one goal last game and that was a PK. Other than that, KC (the first place team playing 3 forwards) was fairly limited to in their chances on goal. I'm going to write up the Colorado game as...well a bad game. Even with that, they only had two real shots on goal. A PK and a defensive lapse that resulted in a goal.

[/QUOTE]

I think it's also important to stress that the play that resulted in the PK started with either a United corner or free-kick near the area. Resulting in Carroll and Mediate in the back with Adu between them and the rest of the team.

KC only got the break when Carroll misplayed the ball on the KC counter-attack. But that's the gamble when all three defenders are in the box.

[Soccernethost]

I just don't think those five players do anything to soak up defensive pressure before it hits the back five. And our D was utterly destroyed, even though we lucked out and only gave up a PK goal.

[Soccernethost]

You play your best XI.

No, you don't. You play your best team.

[Sundevil9]

I just don't think those five players do anything to soak up defensive pressure before it hits the back five. And our D was utterly destroyed, even though we lucked out and only gave up a PK goal.

Utterly destroyed is harsh. Perkins did not have that great of a game to say that.

Exposed at times? Sure. Especially in the second half when KC really pushed, and DC admittedly didn't communicate as well as they should have.

[ButlerBob]

No, you don't. You play your best team.

So are you suggesting that against a more defensive team like KC, you would play more of a defensive team? I guess I was watching a different game, because I didn't see a defense that was utterly destroyed. Against a more attacking team, I think you would have seen a much different line up. I think this is the first time I've seen a complaint about fielding an attack oriented team. :D

[gnat]

I just don't think those five players do anything to soak up defensive pressure before it hits the back five.
Would you also say the same about Walker when he came on? They contribute to the defense by forcing the other team to dedicate resources to covering them. That leaves less players that they can send forward, thus making it easier on our defense.
Gros specifically works his ass off at both ends of the field. I believe I saw him make a goal line clearance in the 1st half too. That isn't contributing to the defense?
Regardless of the result, Freddy was the ONLY player to get back there and make any attempt at defense on the PK call. It may not have been the desired result, but at least he was putting the effort in.
Mediate was back there quite a few times too.

And our D was utterly destroyed, even though we lucked out and only gave up a PK goal.
I think that's harsh. Our D had some bone head moments and yes we got damn lucky, but we were also seeing a different Wizards than we are used to. They aren't the bunkering team they used to be. They got most of their chances because they made them. Their defense was just as lucky that we weren't better with our chances (though we didn't blow a 6yd open net :eek: ).
What we saw was the result of two attacking teams going at each other that also happen to be competing for the top spot in the East. Take out the PKs and give a bit better luck to both teams and it could have easily been a 3-3 or 4-4 game with little fault to the defense.

-dave

[ursula]

There's a post by Diceson on the post match thread that scared the shit out of me:

BC basically said PN decided to go with 2 attacking mids and put the onus on BC to hold down the middle. BC admitted it is a much bigger challenge, but he wants the challenge over the next couple of games.

It's not that Carroll is a poor defender. In fact I think he's excellent. It's that he can't cover the ground needed to both be a shield in front of Erpen and Boswell and makes sure the flanks are secure. If we had two good wingers who could hold their own on defense then Carroll alone as a d-mid would work but we don't. Mediate may become a decent winger but he's very raw right now.

The idea of two attacking mids is an interesting one but it opens our defense up. It particularly opens our defense up against a team that doesn't rely on a target player the defense can easily track. Such a team is Kansas which has two forwards and two mids who freely interchange. (And I wish folks would stop thinking of Kansas as primarily a defensive team.)

Going to one d-mid and two a-mids changes a fundamental principle of this Nowak-led team: That the opposition will not be able to move through the middle of the field. From day one Nowak has stressed that principle. But with two a-mids that principle is gone. By itself that isn't disastrous. Teams win without dominating the middle. However I think then the team needs to develop another strength in compensation and it hasn't yet.

So far, and like last year, Gomez and Adu don't work well as twin a-mids. Doesn't mean that they can't figure it out but it is worth noting that so far it isn't a successful strategy. I was under the impression that Nowak noticed this and so put Freddy on the wing to give more space to the attack while still clogging up the middle. But maybe Nowak now doesn't like how this has unfolded since the last two game he hasn't played Freddy as a winger.

Of course the last two games he hasn't had Olsen or Simms either. When he returns, no doubt Olsen will go back next to Carroll and Gomez and the defense will improve. Probably Simms will do the same as soon as he's healthy. Still if Nowak doesn't like Fred on the wing anymore then I'm not sure what will happen.

[JoeW]

I disagree with the basic premise of this thread.

1. DC United let the league in defense last season. How did we do it?
--by a powerful offense
--by a defense that started with pressure by the frontline
--by a midfield that stopped problems before they got to rookie Boswell and newcomer Erpen.

2. We were missing Olsen (and his first choice backup--Simms). I'm not using that as an excuse. I'm saying we haven't learned to adjust yet. So we're going to give up some chances REGARDLESS of how many defenders we have or who they are--b/c we don't have that human buzz saw in the middle of the field before our backline.

3. Other than Carroll, Erpen and Boswell, our defenders are pedestrian. Namoff and Prideaux are great value. But let's be honest, both of those guys are okay MLS veterans who are cheap. They are impressive physically, they don't bring a lot of great assets to the field. Wilson has many limitations packaged around some attacking skill and good pace.

I don't think starting more defensive personnel would have made us better. In fact, if United's history under Nowak is any indicator, we get better defensive results when we attack and possess more.

[benni...]

I disagree with the basic premise of this thread.

1. DC United let the league in defense last season. How did we do it?
--by a powerful offense
--by a defense that started with pressure by the frontline
--by a midfield that stopped problems before they got to rookie Boswell and newcomer Erpen.

2. We were missing Olsen (and his first choice backup--Simms). I'm not using that as an excuse. I'm saying we haven't learned to adjust yet. So we're going to give up some chances REGARDLESS of how many defenders we have or who they are--b/c we don't have that human buzz saw in the middle of the field before our backline.

3. Other than Carroll, Erpen and Boswell, our defenders are pedestrian. Namoff and Prideaux are great value. But let's be honest, both of those guys are okay MLS veterans who are cheap. They are impressive physically, they don't bring a lot of great assets to the field. Wilson has many limitations packaged around some attacking skill and good pace.

I don't think starting more defensive personnel would have made us better. In fact, if United's history under Nowak is any indicator, we get better defensive results when we attack and possess more.

Thats pretty much how I feel.

Just one more thing to add, Gros and Mediate on the same side isnt a good combo imo. Thank God, Nowak changed that up.

[thedeuce_2]

I'll admit, I was very sceptacle about his lineup and even posted in the In-game thread that I felt Peter should've went with four in the back with Prideaux instead of Mediate in the MF. HOWEVER, after seeing the way the team played, I really like the lineup we had on the field the other night. There were a few problems, but I feel like they are minor. Communication, which I think comes from Mediate being on the field with everyone for the 1st time and the way we've switched up our formation so much. I think we had alotta good looks at the goal that we didn't finish. In my opinion it should've been about a 3-1 or 4-1 game in our favor, and had we put a few more goals in, this thread may have never been started.

I like being such a dangerous team offensively. I think we really scare some teams with the guys we can put on the pitch at the same time. AND we're deep. To be minus Tino and Ben (AND his 1st backup Simms), and to not use Filomeno and still bost a lineup like we did is pretty impressive in my book. I like the team we have and feel like we played well.

[Sundevil9]

It's not that Carroll is a poor defender. In fact I think he's excellent. It's that he can't cover the ground needed to both be a shield in front of Erpen and Boswell and makes sure the flanks are secure. If we had two good wingers who could hold their own on defense then Carroll alone as a d-mid would work but we don't. Mediate may become a decent winger but he's very raw right now.

The idea of two attacking mids is an interesting one but it opens our defense up. It particularly opens our defense up against a team that doesn't rely on a target player the defense can easily track. Such a team is Kansas which has two forwards and two mids who freely interchange. (And I wish folks would stop thinking of Kansas as primarily a defensive team.)



In the KC game, PN rolled out the good ol' 3-5-2. Not the adaptable, 4-4-2, or 4-3-3 that has been around this year.

So BC was only supporting in front of Boswell, and Gros was pairing with Erpen on the left.

But BC is quick enough to still shut down those passing lanes when he's communicating well with both Gomez and Adu as well as the defenders. He admitted the difficulties in the latest Access United segment.

[vivzig]

I like being such a dangerous team offensively. I think we really scare some teams with the guys we can put on the pitch at the same time. AND we're deep. To be minus Tino and Ben (AND his 1st backup Simms), and to not use Filomeno and still bost a lineup like we did is pretty impressive in my book. I like the team we have and feel like we played well.
Indeed. My sentiments exactly.

I also like that we can play in multiple formations and show well and get results.

[Soccernethost]

I'm with Skip on this one. You can't play a single D-mid in front of a 3-man back line unless you've got wingers that can absorb pressure. And Adu and Mediate are all offense.

And we'll be punished if we keep doing it.

[Sundevil9]

I'm with Skip on this one. You can't play a single D-mid in front of a 3-man back line unless you've got wingers that can absorb pressure. And Adu and Mediate are all offense.

And we'll be punished if we keep doing it.

True, you need the wingers to play defense. But don't call out Adu on that, because he wasn't a winger against KC. Mediate may be succeptable to defensive issues on the wing, but he handled it fairly well with some help.