What do you expect from a player who costs £20m+?

[Dark Savante]

Since we've been linked with Diarra at these prices of £20m, £25m etc I've notcied hardly anyone here seems interested in him. WE're strongly linked with him right now, but no one seems particularly enthused, citing a preference for Carrick and 'other' instead of spending ridiculous fees on a player who is probably worth £14m tops.

For me a £20m player is a special player, one with some kind of magic in his boots who is a world beater in his position. For £25m+ I personally would expect to hear names like Gerrard, Ballack(if he were younger and in the middle of a contract), Nesta, Totti, Eto'o, Henry, Rio, Shevchenko, Rooney, Ronaldinho. etc, etc,

Even if Makelele were 25yrs old I wouldn't expect to hear him bandied about for more than £20m and I just wonder if we're going to be stupid enough to pay what Lyon expect for the player. They value him the same as they valued Essien...since Essien arrived in England he hasn't looked anywhere near a £22m player. If we had paid that for him and got what he's delivered so far I'd be seriously disappointed. I also think if we get Diarra for £20m+ the pressure on him to be 'the saviour' will be out of this world. I think expectation of him already exceeds his ability and quality myself. Like I said, the bracket price linked to him is what moves you up with the Gerrard's and Rooney's etc - the true elite of the game. There is nothing at all elite about Diarra :o Riquelme and Deco are infinitely better at their roles and I don't think either of them are £25m players. If Makelele is the benchmark for DM's then Diarra falls well short for me.

What would you expect us to land for a single £25m purchase? Would it please you to see a Diarra brought in for that much? and what would your expectations be if he was purchased for anything over £20m?

[phishy]

the Lyon valuation is absurd DS. Diarra is a great player (someone i wished last season we would of made a move for), however, i would put him in the £13-14M TOPS range.

[SirManchester]

I've said this before, spending so much money on Diarra would not pay off in the end. He's a good player but that's because of the Lyon line up he's in. I don't think he would perform as well outside of this club and quite frankly I'd rather have a younger, more unknown player at this position. Carrick has already proven himself in England and only looks to become better but I doubt we will be able to get him, Tottenham would be stupid to give him up. So we're not really left with many other options than to spend a ridiculous amount of money on one player who we're not even guaranteed to be a success. I think managment should think this one over a bit more, do some more intelligent scouting instead of only looking to solve our problems by splashing out loads of cash.

[Stud83]

So we're not really left with many other options than to spend a ridiculous amount of money on one player who we're not even guaranteed to be a success.

That's exactly right. We don't really have a lot of options at this point. And Diarra is the only available CM among "elite" players. I'd rather take a chance on Diarra and overpay for him than get someone like Parker for 1/3 of the price and next year discuss something along the lines of "oh well, at least he didn't cost too much." Plus, given the apparent Ruud departure, it seems we'll have enough money to finance the purchase of Diarra and have enough left to possibly go after Shevchenko if he's available.

[Dark Savante]

That's exactly right. We don't really have a lot of options at this point. And Diarra is the only available CM among "elite" players. I'd rather take a chance on Diarra and overpay for him than get someone like Parker for 1/3 of the price and next year discuss something along the lines of "oh well, at least he didn't cost too much." Plus, given the apparent Ruud departure, it seems we'll have enough money to finance the purchase of Diarra and have enough left to possibly go after Shevchenko if he's available.
What if Diarra is a £25m bust?

[Stud83]

What if Diarra is a £25m bust?
Too bad. But I'd rather go down swinging.

[Dark Savante]

Too bad. But I'd rather go down swinging.
Not sure many would see it that way. Look at the furore over Veron, who is still talked about to this day as a flop.

[SirManchester]

That's exactly right. We don't really have a lot of options at this point. And Diarra is the only available CM among "elite" players. I'd rather take a chance on Diarra and overpay for him than get someone like Parker for 1/3 of the price and next year discuss something along the lines of "oh well, at least he didn't cost too much." Plus, given the apparent Ruud departure, it seems we'll have enough money to finance the purchase of Diarra and have enough left to possibly go after Shevchenko if he's available.

At this point though, what's the difference between Diarra and the likes of Parker though? Can we really assume that Diarra would be more successfull because he happens to play for Lyon?

[Stud83]

Not sure many would see it that way. Look at the furore over Veron, who is still talked about to this day as a flop.

The situations are entirely different though (and I was against purchasing Veron all the way). We still had Roy, Scholes, Butt in their 20s, were set in the midfield and it was clear that Veron would struggle to adjust to Premiership. Also, he's the type of player that you have to change your game plan around.
Right now we don't have Keane or Butt, O'Shea has started the third-most games among all the players, and Giggs has been playing as a CM for over half the season. I think we all agree that we need a CM. Badly. Of course, we can try to bring 12 Djembas, Millers, and Klebersons, and save a bunch of money, hoping at least one of them could turn out to be a star, but I'd rather go for the best available guy on the market who (I believe) would not struggle to adjust to Premiership even it means overpaying for him.

[Charleysurf]

If Diarra comes in and simply gives us
1) the physical strength in midfield not to be overrun as we were in some games against Chelsea and 'Pool
2) a big improvement in our passing in CM
then I will be delighted.

SAF has said on a number of occasions that we do not have enough raw physical strength in the side and Diarra can certainly give us that. Carrick cannot.

If he comes and provides the above then I would certainly be glad to have paid £15m for him.

If it goes to £20m or more then I guess you are looking for a little more. You are looking for him to be a real leader in the team and to drive the team onwards as Keane did. There's some indication that Diarra has the character to do that kind of thing, but we cannot be so sure.

Having said that, the difference between £15m and £20m is the £5m that we may possibly have wasted on Evra. If you go back further we have wasted that figure on Kleberson and Dj-Dj.

So I personally would take the risk on Diarra for £20m. I've seen enough to be sure he can provide 1) and 2) above and I'd gamble he could provide the leardership qualities to justify the other £5m.

Anyway, Diarra could announce next week that he is staying (or going to Chelsea or Madrid) and then what are our options?
Carrick does not provide 1) above.
Mascherano is highly fancied but what happened to the last South American midfielder we bought?
Everyone has ruled out short/medium term options like Petit.

[Howard Zinn]

At this point though, what's the difference between Diarra and the likes of Parker though? Can we really assume that Diarra would be more successfull because he happens to play for Lyon?


Diarra is generally considered to be a top 5 DM in the world. I know I have came away impressed basically everytime I have watched him, which this season has been a lot because I wanted to watch him closely due to our apparent interest in his services.

[Stud83]

At this point though, what's the difference between Diarra and the likes of Parker though? Can we really assume that Diarra would be more successfull because he happens to play for Lyon?

I think Diarra is a much better player with a higher upside. And I believe he's much more consistant than Parker.

[SirManchester]

Diarra is generally considered to be a top 5 DM in the world. I know I have came away impressed basically everytime I have watched him, which this season has been a lot because I wanted to watch him closely due to our apparent interest in his services.

I've watched him for longer than that and I know he's good, however, what's to say that he will positively succeed in England? There is none, for all we know he may just be good because of the certain set up at Lyon.

[Dark Savante]

I think Diarra is a much better player with a higher upside. And I believe he's much more consistant than Parker.
£15m more?

[johno]

Too bad. But I'd rather go down swinging.

In our financial position that's rather unwise...

what we should be doing is looking at a veteran who is servicable before we land Mr. Pink.

Personally we should throw money at Spurs for Carrick - but if we don't do that then we've got to look to a veteran CM who can tide us over until we are willing and able to spend 15m+ on our CM of the future.

[Leto]

£15m more?

:confused:

You think you can get Parker for £5m?

[Dark Savante]

What is identifiable as £20m quality on Diarra, out of interest?

Like the players I mentioned in the first post. They have obvious qualities that put them in that bracket, what do you get from diarra for that?

[Dark Savante]

:confused:

You think you can get Parker for £5m?
£10m I should think.

[Howard Zinn]

I've watched him for longer than that and I know he's good, however, what's to say that he will positively succeed in England? There is none, for all we know he may just be good because of the certain set up at Lyon.


If you're looking for an absolute sure thing, that player doesn't exist. No one can tell how a player will react not only to a different country or league, but even from club to club and manager to manager. Quite simply, Carrick could come here and flop. So could my personal favorite for this position, Mascherano. But at some point, the club and SAF just have to identify the player they consider to be the answer and make the move. You're always taking a risk bringing in a new player, but at some point you have to do it and deal with the consequences.

Also, I think you are ignoring the fact that Diarra was one of the main reasons (along with Juninho, obviously) that Lyon have been as good as they are. He would also be surrounded by superior talent than what he had at Lyon, so it's not as if we would be asking him to be our savior anyway. We would just ask him to perform his role well and not let our midfield get overrun, and to allow our superior attacking talent to win matches for us.

25 mill is too much for him though.

[SirManchester]

If you're looking for an absolute sure thing, that player doesn't exist. No one can tell how a player will react not only to a different country or league, but even from club to club and manager to manager. Quite simply, Carrick could come here and flop. So could my personal favorite for this position, Mascherano. But at some point, the club and SAF just have to identify the player they consider to be the answer and make the move. You're always taking a risk bringing in a new player, but at some point you have to do it and deal with the consequences.

Obviously risks are being taken whenever a new player is brought in, however managment doesn't just simply flip through the big book of footballers under the DM category. On the contrary it has to think about whether or not he would fit in, what are the pros, the cons, which players would he work with, which ones he wouldn't, would his style be suited in the Prem, would it be suited to our style of playing? all these questions have to be brought to the table and I'm not getting the impression that we're doing that. Instead [if indeed it's true that we'll be bidding for him] we're just looking to the highest rated DM at the moment and we'll hope to throw as much money at him as possible.

Also, I think you are ignoring the fact that Diarra was one of the main reasons (along with Juninho, obviously) that Lyon have been as good as they are. He would also be surrounded by superior talent than what he had at Lyon, so it's not as if we would be asking him to be our savior anyway. We would just ask him to perform his role well and not let our midfield get overrun, and to allow our superior attacking talent to win matches for us.

I'm not ignoring anything, I know he's vital to the team, I never argued against it. Now the point about him being surrounded by superior talent is arbitrary. It may not even be entirely true. Also it doesn't neccessarily mean he will perform well. He may just happen to clash with our other players' styles or our style even. As I said before, he does exceptionally well at in Ligue 1 because of the particular Lyion set up which has been built on for five+ years. Now you take him out of this comfort zone, put him into a completely different set up, not to mention different environment, and who knows how he will play