Toronto is in the MLS now, next one has to be Montreal

[perucho79]

I think the next Canadian city to join the MLS has to be Montreal, we got more soccer fans here than Toronto IMO, hopefully Joe Saputo will get convinced that that is the best for soccer in Montreal and Canadian soccer

[RedandWhite]

By the looks of it, Vancouver is likely to join MLS next.

[torontosports]

I'm with you on the Vancouver thing. fits with theeir objectives

By the looks of it, Vancouver is likely to join MLS next.

[midwestsurfer]

Just gotta wait for Toronto's exclusive right to Canada to expire.

[Bill Archer]

See, I don't get this.

Purportedly, the reason why Toronto wanted in to MLS, and the reason why FIFA went along with it despite a very longstanding rule against cross-national leagues (PLEASE don't reply about Monaco or whatever or I'll be forced to call you an idiot) was because Canada did not have the interest, capacity or ability to form their OWN Division I league.

OK fine. So Toronto gets approval to join MLS.

And now, although Toronto has yet to kick a single ball in nanger, and won't for another year, these boards are chock full of long lists of Canadian team lining up to join MLS too.

Excuse the hell out of me, but that's not the deal, and if you really think you can pull that you're nuts. FIFA won't allow it, MLS won't allow it and, frankly, it makes no bloody sense whatsoever.

If Canada has all these potential Div I soccer cities, then Canada better go start a frikkin Div I league like EVERY OTHER NATION does. You guys who think what we're setting up here is MLS Canada Division, you're just wrong. It's not going to happen.

[ursula]

I see your point, Bill. If Canada is to have a bunch of cities wanting to be in MLS then they should have their own league, taking Toronto with them.

OTOH I can imagine in the long run a larger MLS (20 teams or more) with two or even three Canadian cities if they have serious financial backing.

The question is where is the tipping point between a Canadian city or two in MLS and Canada spinning off? I would say when Canada starts thinking seriously beyond the Big Three cities and I don't see that happening any time soon.

MLS shouldn't be interested in any Canadian expansion beyond Toronto, Montreal, or Vancouver. A city like Calgary or Hamilton would do nothing for MLS. Canada needs ten cities* to form their own league. But they won't be able to keep adding a city or two to MLS until they get near that point. They'll have to make a leap at some point and start a bunch of teams all at once.

Canada no doubt will bid to host the WC the next time it looks to come to North America. (They already had a bid formed several years ago.) If they win the bid over Mexico and the US (not a crazy scenario either) then that could form the basis to make a full Canadian league.

I would love a separate Canadian division one league as it would make the CCC more "honest" as it wouldn't be staged during the MLS off-season anymore. But I can't imagine it happening incrementally, slowly adding four, five, six cities to MLS. Two or three, yes maybe, then a big leap.

* A Canadian league could have:
- Toronto (maybe two teams there)
- Montreal (maybe two teams here too)
- Vancouver
- Edmonton
- Calgary
- Winnipeg
- Hamilton
- Halifax
- Quebec
- Ottawa
- possibly Windsor or St John's

Again most of these cities will never get MLS consideration.

[chapulincolorado]

* A Canadian league could have:
- Toronto (maybe two teams there)
- Montreal (maybe two teams here too)
- Vancouver
- Edmonton
- Calgary
- Winnipeg
- Hamilton
- Halifax
- Quebec
- Ottawa
- possibly Windsor or St John's

Again most of these cities will never get MLS consideration.

In the end is about the MLS magical incantation: 1. One or a couple of committed long term I/O's. 2. SSS. 3. A decent soccer market. MLS will always ask for 1 and 2. IF any those cities have those two main things, then MLS will have a look.

[tguy24]

Montreal Impact and Vancouver Whitecaps are both owned by BILLIONAIRES and both have plans for SSS, which should be complete by 2010. Montreal aveages 10K in the USL and both owners have mentioned joining MLS someday with Vancouver being the most likely to jump in first.

These facts makes it pretty likely that by 2011 at least Vancouver and probably Montreal will be in MLS especially if Toronto is a sucess which i am positive it will be.

[tguy24]

See, I don't get this.

Purportedly, the reason why Toronto wanted in to MLS, and the reason why FIFA went along with it despite a very longstanding rule against cross-national leagues (PLEASE don't reply about Monaco or whatever or I'll be forced to call you an idiot) was because Canada did not have the interest, capacity or ability to form their OWN Division I league.

OK fine. So Toronto gets approval to join MLS.

And now, although Toronto has yet to kick a single ball in nanger, and won't for another year, these boards are chock full of long lists of Canadian team lining up to join MLS too.

Excuse the hell out of me, but that's not the deal, and if you really think you can pull that you're nuts. FIFA won't allow it, MLS won't allow it and, frankly, it makes no bloody sense whatsoever.

If Canada has all these potential Div I soccer cities, then Canada better go start a frikkin Div I league like EVERY OTHER NATION does. You guys who think what we're setting up here is MLS Canada Division, you're just wrong. It's not going to happen.

Dude Montreal, Vancouver and Toronto are already in the USL and have been for a decade now. So it's not any different.

[PJohnson]

See, I don't get this.

Purportedly, the reason why Toronto wanted in to MLS, and the reason why FIFA went along with it despite a very longstanding rule against cross-national leagues (PLEASE don't reply about Monaco or whatever or I'll be forced to call you an idiot) was because Canada did not have the interest, capacity or ability to form their OWN Division I league.

OK fine. So Toronto gets approval to join MLS.

And now, although Toronto has yet to kick a single ball in nanger, and won't for another year, these boards are chock full of long lists of Canadian team lining up to join MLS too.

Excuse the hell out of me, but that's not the deal, and if you really think you can pull that you're nuts. FIFA won't allow it, MLS won't allow it and, frankly, it makes no bloody sense whatsoever.

If Canada has all these potential Div I soccer cities, then Canada better go start a frikkin Div I league like EVERY OTHER NATION does. You guys who think what we're setting up here is MLS Canada Division, you're just wrong. It's not going to happen.

Thank you! This is exactly right. For months we have been listening to all the pro-Canada crowd whine about how a National League has been tried and failed in the Great White North. And now many of these same people are rushing to nominate additional Canadian Cities? What a bunch of BS.

The Canadian Soccer Association pushed for a Toronto club in MLS because it helped them get the Stadium they needed for the World Youth Championship. And MLSE was quick to sign on to a low-risk deal. The fact is they both took the EASY way out. And so did MLS.

Don't get me wrong. I think that MLSE and the City of Toronto are class. I like what they did with the name and badge. But this whole thing is an abortion waiting to happen. I can't wait to see what convoluted system they come up with for determining who will be counted as a domestic player. And the Toronto FC people stood right on the podium and called for the transfer of Duane DeRosario. I'm sure the Houston supporters are real happy with that little bit of tampering. Not to mention the issue of CONCACAF Champion's Cup spots. :eek:

[Tdotsoccer]

Thank you! This is exactly right. For months we have been listening to all the pro-Canada crowd whine about how a National League has been tried and failed in the Great White North. And now many of these same people are rushing to nominate additional Canadian Cities? What a bunch of BS.

The Canadian Soccer Association pushed for a Toronto club in MLS because it helped them get the Stadium they needed for the World Youth Championship. And MLSE was quick to sign on to a low-risk deal. The fact is they both took the EASY way out. And so did MLS.

Don't get me wrong. I think that MLSE and the City of Toronto are class. I like what they did with the name and badge. But this whole thing is an abortion waiting to happen. I can't wait to see what convoluted system they come up with for determining who will be counted as a domestic player. And the Toronto FC people stood right on the podium and called for the transfer of Duane DeRosario. I'm sure the Houston supporters are real happy with that little bit of tampering. Not to mention the issue of CONCACAF Champion's Cup spots. :eek:

Wow, No offense but I saw the New England Revolution play Chivas something on FSN New England, and there was NO ONE there. The problem with you americans on this message board is that you think we have all these cities with great interest in Soccer when there are really only about 3. MLS can do whatever they want, and last time I checked MLS stands for Major League Soccer, not Exlusive American Soccer League.

[midwestsurfer]

Monaco is a city-state and therefor probabaly could not support its own top flight, so not really a good example.

I think most people think of Wales/England, or New Zealand/Australia for cross national first division leagues. Those are better examples of whats afoot. And while I realize the Wales example is old and not very applicable in this instance. The Australia/New Zealand one is. NZ after all had a club league and they have a team in the A-League too now.
And what do you know, there are cross national leagues here already. Of course there was also the NASL, which had teams in both, the current USL which does.

This is all to say. If you think FIFA is gonna step on toes and say no. Then look at the precedents that already exist. I don't recall FIFA ever coming in and stopping a cross national league like this from forming before. (and they have seemed quite powerless in their threats against the european 'super league' conspiracy as is.)

FIFA has only nominal control on the club scene, it lets the FAs handle most everything.

So if more Canadian cities want to open up shop in the MLS, I don't see anything stopping them besides the exclusive deal that MLSE signed, which I think runs through 2010. But I would have to check the World Soccer that originally ran that piece.

Besides I don't think anyone has been quoting a long list. Besides Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal, none of the other cities have any long standing (generous term there) soccer history.

Now call me an idiot, I could care less. I wouldn't count on seeing further expansion in Canada for some time, so really, its probabaly all a moot point

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

...And now, although Toronto has yet to kick a single ball in nanger, and won't for another year, these boards are chock full of long lists of Canadian team lining up to join MLS too.....

Two additional cities is hardly a long list and a three team league would get boring very quickly. Worth noting that Monaco is simply part of France as far as soccer goes. Liechtenstein is an example of a country with it's own soccer association and national team but multiple teams playing at different levels of another neighbouring country's national league system:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liechtenstein_football_Cup

in an analogous manner to Canada having teams at PDL, USL D1 and MLS levels. Call me an idiot if you wish and I'm fully aware of the irony of using a microstate like Liechtenstein for comparison purposes with a continent sized country like Canada.

Worth noting that Don Garber is already on board where the idea of a second Canadian franchise is concerned:-

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060512.wmlscommish/BNStory/Sports/

Q: Which current MLS team do you see as becoming Toronto's geographic or traditional rival? Are New York and Chicago natural rivals for Toronto?

A: I don't think we see that yet, but when you start thinking long term, we would like to see that rival being another team in Canada. While that is not going to happen for a quite a few years, if the plan works the way we expect it to work, we hope to have a second team in this country in due time.

so there is definitely a solid basis for a thread on the relative merits of Montreal and Vancouver as MLS's number two in Canada.

[Sempuukyaku]

And now, although Toronto has yet to kick a single ball in nanger, and won't for another year, these boards are chock full of long lists of Canadian team lining up to join MLS too


LOL.

I've seen two....TWO other Canadian cities being floated around for MLS promotion: Vancouver and Montreal. That's it. Two. I don't see how you get "long lists" of teams from two freakin cities. Go to the Voyagers message boards. You won't see ANY of the Canadian fans there talking about having more than two more teams in MLS other than Toronto. I just don't know where you're getting these long lists from at all.

Furthermore, the fact that Edmonton FC closed up shop in the USL due to lack of support, pretty much kills your argument right there. Three Canadian cities in MLS aint gonna kill us, folks.

[Googs67]

I think the next Canadian city to join the MLS has to be Montreal, we got more soccer fans here than Toronto IMO, hopefully Joe Saputo will get convinced that that is the best for soccer in Montreal and Canadian soccer

The big CSA lie is that Toronto is a good soccer market. It's not. The MLS should have expanded to Montreal and Vancouver first, with it's proven fan base for the game than risk everything on trying to seduce the Toronto market with the MLS.

Toronto will be moving to Montreal by 2009 anyway.

[TopDogg]

I just don't know where you're getting these long lists from at all.
It's a long list to people who can only count to three.

[TxFan]

this is ridiculous: there is no "long list" of canadian cities being proposed for mls. i think there are two: vancouver and montreal. i don't see a problem with either of them being fit in.

and call everyone an idiot who disagrees with you, but monaco/wales/new zealand are all good counterexamples to the "fifa won't let you" argument.

[Jayfil]

Wow, No offense but I saw the New England Revolution play Chivas something on FSN New England, and there was NO ONE there. The problem with you americans on this message board is that you think we have all these cities with great interest in Soccer when there are really only about 3. MLS can do whatever they want, and last time I checked MLS stands for Major League Soccer, not Exlusive American Soccer League.


That's not entirely (or even a little bit) fair. In general I think MLS is doing ok with attendance, and this year has been pretty good and consistent so far. Do some cities struggle? Sure, but this is more frequently due to off the field issues than anything else. Have a look at how New England drew before they moved to Gillette.

That being said, you can't judge by one game, especially the Revs v. Chivas game this weekend. That game was played during a 5 day rainstorm where 17 INCHES OF RAIN FELL. Do you have any concept of how much rain that is? The Red Sox had three straight rainouts, the Governor has declared a state of emergency, much of northeastern MA is underwater...

Put the Revs in a decent SSS that is accessible by public transportation and you average 20k-25k, guaranteed.

[HSEUPASSION]

this is ridiculous: there is no "long list" of canadian cities being proposed for mls. i think there are two: vancouver and montreal. i don't see a problem with either of them being fit in.

and call everyone an idiot who disagrees with you, but monaco/wales/new zealand are all good counterexamples to the "fifa won't let you" argument.

NZ is under fire and may be gone soon. Monaco (as a nation) isn't recognized by FIFA, and Wales is a special case.

No Welsh team can play in Europe via England, by the way. Which is why you see Llansantffraid (the team formally known as TNS) in Europe instead of Cardiff or Wrexham.

Only an argument including Liechtenstein holds any water. But Liechtenstein doesn't have a league, Canada does. Even if it's a joke, it's still there.

[chrizzah]

NZ is under fire and may be gone soon. Monaco (as a nation) isn't recognized by FIFA, and Wales is a special case.

No Welsh team can play in Europe via England, by the way. Which is why you see Llansantffraid (the team formally known as TNS) in Europe instead of Cardiff or Wrexham.

Only an argument including Liechtenstein holds any water. But Liechtenstein doesn't have a league, Canada does. Even if it's a joke, it's still there.

I think you are wrong. The Welsh teams in Europe win the Welsh national league, a league with a standard of play below the FA's Conference. Should Cardiff, Wrexham or Swansea win the FA Cup, I'm sure they would receive a birth in Europe. They don't get a place by being the best team in Wales. They are lumped in with the other members of the English FA.

This whole discussion is pretty stupid. The ability to name Canada's major cities is different from naming the cities that would seriously be able to maintain an MLS franchise. We've established that Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal are the only cities in contention now and probably for the foreseeable future. These cities were part of the A-League, were part of the NASL and there is no reason they should be excluded from MLS.