Is Chivas Ready To Be WorldClass?

[franco]

I think what we are seen in this club since vergara came in is an institution that is getting respect and attention at least in sudamerica...

i believe what vergara has put in this team is organization and focus on not only being premiere in mexico, but really an institution that would be known in this world as a respected club...ask any comentator of fox argentina just to name one...

even know vergara has made many fans unhappy with certain decisions, he has been able to hang and manage crisis...look at the team now on semis in the mexican league as well as in libertadores...to me for any club team that is able to sustain this rythm of playing locally and internationally is something to be noted and a positive sign that the right talent is being created (as vergara has many times supported) and that the correct decisions are being taken as a business in general from hiring the proper coaches to managing the club...

i belive is pretty sad that chivas fans are not very apreciative of what goes on in a club especially when construction and lots of changing moves are done...just look at how much fans are in the stadiums at some of their home games...the fan base needs to be more supportive in good and bad times...learn from tigres, pumas, just to name a few...vergara and chivas fans have to work on that...look at boca and its fans and contrast to that of chivas (just take out the stupid things some of those boca fans do sometimes) and don't tell me a lot needs to be done...

few teams in america such as boca (lately them) are able to mantain such play level in leagues as local and libertadores...now chivas has only to win the liga and libertadores, if such thing happens to this club and the team remains consistant in these interational tourneys it would only signal that a worldclass club is being born...is chivas ready for this step?...remember vergara said when he took charge: "in 5 years we will be number one in america and in 10 the best in the world"...do you believe that?, i think it also starts with the support and believe of its fanbase...

i just hope that chivas becomes succesful worldwide as well of any other mexican team because its also good for mexican soccer in the future...
so far i believe chivas has the advantage over america, pumas and c.a.

[UNION_1906]

I always felt that Chivas has accomplished what it has inspite of Vergara. Corrio al yayo, y empeso todo. Luckily, Westerhoff did well, con plantel limitado, y con un santo que es Oswaldo who carried us to the final against pumas. Con el Maestro, things went well, y luego out of left field he's gone! after a come-from-behind win against atlante, he is fired. What followed was a catastrophe, as we all know, ese bigoton (i forget his name) didn't know jack about soccer, regrasa westerhoff, again, we're doing alright, y lo corre, como si fuera cualquier otro, como si no fuera el que nos llevo a un subcampeonato.

he brought us bofo, palencia, santana, pineda, y martinez, so kudos for that, and he cleaned up the jersey, only to sell out in a most important year, but it was good while it lasted, and we get a new stadium... someday...
vergara is a poser when it comes down to it, un dia es Chiva, el otro morado, y luego Chiva gringa, pero ni modo, at least we get a stadium.... right? right???

[franco]

I always felt that Chivas has accomplished what it has inspite of Vergara. Corrio al yayo, y empeso todo. Luckily, Westerhoff did well, con plantel limitado, y con un santo que es Oswaldo who carried us to the final against pumas. Con el Maestro, things went well, y luego out of left field he's gone! after a come-from-behind win against atlante, he is fired. What followed was a catastrophe, as we all know, ese bigoton (i forget his name) didn't know jack about soccer, regrasa westerhoff, again, we're doing alright, y lo corre, como si fuera cualquier otro, como si no fuera el que nos llevo a un subcampeonato.

he brought us bofo, palencia, santana, pineda, y martinez, so kudos for that, and he cleaned up the jersey, only to sell out in a most important year, but it was good while it lasted, and we get a new stadium... someday...
vergara is a poser when it comes down to it, un dia es Chiva, el otro morado, y luego Chiva gringa, pero ni modo, at least we get a stadium.... right? right???

...i am not sure if you are a sore losing fan or a true supportive fan in all aspects (by this i mean not only what you see in the field but on the business decisions your club makes)...so what are you and what do you want to see in your team?...are you in line with the goals vergara sets (long and short term) and what do you do to support the club's goals as a fan?

[fdp]

Didn't Club America also reach the semi's in both Mexico and the Libertadores?

[terrible15]

Didn't Club America also reach the semi's in both Mexico and the Libertadores?


It's not the same...Chivas did it without 6 seleccionados and they dont get to have 6 foreigners on their team....we're not in Semi's for the Libertadores but hopefully our young players keep it up until our seleccionados come back...

[franco]

...so it is clear chivas is not ready to be worldclass yet...i mean, nobody has made the case here...

...so i guess fans do not believe in its team to reach such level, or am i wrong?...:confused:

[terrible15]

...so it is clear chivas is not ready to be worldclass yet...i mean, nobody has made the case here...

...so i guess fans do not believe in its team to reach such level, or am i wrong?...:confused:


They have to win Libertadores so they could be considered worldclass....Are they ready to win the Libertadores??? I think so...

[Differ]

I feel that for the first time in a long time the pieces are coming together for what may very well be a sort of dynasty. The talent in the lower divisions is undeniable, and the talent in the starting 11 is the foundation of the Mexican National team. If this team was given a full season without interruption, (the MNT) who knows what they'd be capable of. I'm sure my statement might sound biased, but if another team was doing the same, I'd recognize it. There's no doubt that Vergara's injection of funds has helped us, unfortunately his mouth has caused us some harm as well. As of late, however, he's been more discreet and if anything, that's beneficial for the image of the club. Hopefully they'll demonstrate tomorrow that the Jaguares game wasn't a fluke as some say, and once again show South America that this team is for real.

[vexum redded]

good form. Chivas will be World Class, on their way mang.

[UNION_1906]

...i am not sure if you are a sore losing fan or a true supportive fan in all aspects (by this i mean not only what you see in the field but on the business decisions your club makes)...so what are you and what do you want to see in your team?...are you in line with the goals vergara sets (long and short term) and what do you do to support the club's goals as a fan?

sore losing fan? ..."i am not sure" what you mean by the that..., in any case my little ramble there was just blowing off some steam, i guess, cuz i hate vergara. Don't like how he brags sometimes when not necessary. we all know chivas es el mero mero de mexico, but the humblng image of the team should not be thrown out. I support the team in that I want them to win, and be the best, and when they fall short, I'm there anyways, porque no importa, sigue siendo chivas. I guess i'm not a "true supportive fan" since i could really care less how many chiva colas vergara sells or monedas de centenario or how many fifteen year olds rent-a-chiva de chambelan.
I'll believe in his goals when we win a cup, because let's face it, we can know we are the best, pero sin campionato, quien nos va a creer??? are we close? you're damn straight, y si ganamos libertadores, empiezo a creer en las promesas de vergara.

[franco]

...stay put on what the previa in libertadores from the argies point of view is today, if you want an opinion other than the mexican media offers...

...i think is outstanding the leadership and courage the subs from chivas are taking...mainly to the fact that they were not scared of the adversities that had to confront on the last game against jaguares...the 1-0 disadvantage, then the tie on the non-exising penalty, the red card of bofo close to the end, and finally the goal of the victory with 10 man...unless there was cheating involved for this game (no disrespect, but there is still a small probability) i believe chivas really showed a lot of desire to go against the odds of not only moving forward in the liguilla, but also in libertadores...

...believe in your team...i would like to see more people involved in this debate, not just a bunch of people reading this thread which signals only the lack of believe on this team...good luck in today's game, don't allow any goals, even a tie to 0 is beneficial to chivas so don't panic and start blaming the goalies for this or that...really analize your team and make realistic and constructive critizism, your responsability as a fan is not to start the bad vibe because this would result on a self-fullfilling prophecy...

[franco]

sore losing fan? ..."i am not sure" what you mean by the that..., in any case my little ramble there was just blowing off some steam, i guess, cuz i hate vergara. Don't like how he brags sometimes when not necessary. we all know chivas es el mero mero de mexico, but the humblng image of the team should not be thrown out. I support the team in that I want them to win, and be the best, and when they fall short, I'm there anyways, porque no importa, sigue siendo chivas. I guess i'm not a "true supportive fan" since i could really care less how many chiva colas vergara sells or monedas de centenario or how many fifteen year olds rent-a-chiva de chambelan.
I'll believe in his goals when we win a cup, because let's face it, we can know we are the best, pero sin campionato, quien nos va a creer??? are we close? you're damn straight, y si ganamos libertadores, empiezo a creer en las promesas de vergara.

...you got the point, just be supportive and more engaged in giving props where is due without of course aknowledging your weaknesses...

[JoeFX]

What Union said is true... Chivas is more than Vergara but he is important to the team as his decisions are immediately reflected on itself.

The present Chivas have shown that they have a) The will to fight everytime, even when the things are looking really ugly b) The talent to win both here and there spite having players taken away from them. But for me they won't be world class until they prove they have c) The mentality to keep a score when they're up or to not fall in the adversaries' game if it not suits they're style.

[LMvCP]

Aren't you guys being a bit pretentious. I know none of you guys are saying, "Chivas is world class". I know that you guys are implying the "potential" to be world class... but even then.. arent you guys being prretentious in even assuming if they are ready to be world class?

im not here to insult, but if you really have to ask "is Chivas ready to be world class?" shouldnt you really be asking "Is Chivas ready to have its 2nd golden era" Lets face it, Chivas has won 3 titles in the past 40 years. They have allowed America to catch them up in league titles. Cruz Azul and Toluca are also approaching them. In otherwords, teams are surpassing Chivas at an alarming rate and it seems BOGUS to me that some even ask the question, "is Chivas ready to be world class" when they still have not had a 2nd golden era or even won a league title

[franco]

Aren't you guys being a bit pretentious. I know none of you guys are saying, "Chivas is world class". I know that you guys are implying the "potential" to be world class... but even then.. arent you guys being prretentious in even assuming if they are ready to be world class?

im not here to insult, but if you really have to ask "is Chivas ready to be world class?" shouldnt you really be asking "Is Chivas ready to have its 2nd golden era" Lets face it, Chivas has won 3 titles in the past 40 years. They have allowed America to catch them up in league titles. Cruz Azul and Toluca are also approaching them. In otherwords, teams are surpassing Chivas at an alarming rate and it seems BOGUS to me that some even ask the question, "is Chivas ready to be world class" when they still have not had a 2nd golden era or even won a league title

...you see, i think any worldclass team has the 4 sides: players, business administrators, fans, and cuerpo tecnico and when they are in sync, great things happen...but it never comes to those who settle for less...

...if you are playing for a name/spot in history, name that a "worldwide brand"(since this is a business), you have to have a very definite plan of where you are going and how you want to get there...vergara knows what he wants...

...i am not a chivas fan, but would not mind the sort of mentality and projects vergara has on this club on my pumas...i believe most chivas fans are taking this guy for granted...

...as a matter of fact, since vergara arrived, he has set new trends and ways of looking at futbol in many aspects...he manages or tries to conduct this team as if it already was worldclass...he believes in its goals and other teams are trying to follow...i believe his only concern is the fans...chivas fans IN GENERAL tend to be like a roller coster, sometimes they are there, they are not consisten or even loud...they need to let some of their pride go and be more humble, supportive, and critical...

...ask any americanista or any other non-chivas fan if he/she wish its team wholeness (the 4 parts i mentioned) where similar to that of what chivas currently have...anybody who would not like that is fooling itself...vergara has come to the primera to set new standards and its archirival is falling behind...

...finally, if you want to raise and swim with the best, then you must think, act, and believe like the best and therefore the question implies in itself greatness or not...the question in itself establishes the the possibility is there and it also makes you think how you gonna get there...

...asking if chivas is ready for its second golden era implies mediocrity in itself...that is what is keeping pumas and the rest of the teams in mexico from making the international headline...we in general dream in mediocre terms and therefore settle for less...the results are seen everyday worldwide and in many aspects of life...

...now if you mean to ask that same question of the golden era as a baby step to achieve international greatness...in this case i guess is cool to ask as long as you keep focus that your main goal is to be worldclass and you are considering a second golden era as a short term step necessary to achieve wordwide recognition...

[LMvCP]

...as a matter of fact, since vergara arrived, he has set new trends and ways of looking at futbol in many aspects...he manages or tries to conduct this team as if it already was worldclass...he believes in its goals and other teams are trying to follow....

...ask any americanista or any other non-chivas fan if he/she wish its team wholeness (the 4 parts i mentioned) where similar to that of what chivas currently have...anybody who would not like that is fooling itself...vergara has come to the primera to set new standards and its archirival is falling behind...



I hate to break it to you, but Vergara is not innovative. Nor do I wish his style because quite frankly, that is our style. It is a watered down version of our style. His style is actually a carbon copy of Azcarraga Milmo's game plan (when he bought America back in 1959). His plan was to be the bad guy in the movie.

I was surprised to see Vergara take a more "odiame mas" approach because if anything that goes against the ideals and principals of Chivas. His taunting, his attacks unto icons (Hugo, Blanco, etc), his insulting classified ads (desplegados)... how is that humble? How is that representing Chivas? A team that stands for humility, the people, etc, etc. It doesnt.

Vergara is not stupid. He is a savy businessman. But so was Azcarraga Milmo.

And there is one thing that Vergara has yet to do that Azcarraga Milmo did back in 1959. Vergara has forgotten to hire people smarter than him.

The 1st thing Azcarraga Milmo did was hire the most successful football exec---Guillermo Canedo. Canedo was a tire salesman who landed a job with Zacatepec and got them some titles. His work in Zacatepec did not go unnotice.


...asking if chivas is ready for its second golden era implies mediocrity in itself...that is what is keeping pumas and the rest of the teams in mexico from making the international headline...we in general dream in mediocre terms and therefore settle for less...the results are seen everyday worldwide and in many aspects of life...

In order to play meaningful games at the world stage, you have to win your domestic league. winning that or even coming in 2nd assure you spots in Copa Sudamericana, Copa Libertadores, etc

So therefore... no team can prepare to be worldclass, if they cant get their shyt together on the domestic front. IMPOSSIBLE...

the only way Real Madrid can play the Champions is by having their shyt together in league play... same with Boca... same with Inter...

[terrible15]

I hate to break it to you, but Vergara is not innovative. Nor do I wish his style because quite frankly, that is our style. It is a watered down version of our style. His style is actually a carbon copy of Azcarraga Milmo's game plan (when he bought America back in 1959). His plan was to be the bad guy in the movie.

I was surprised to see Vergara take a more "odiame mas" approach because if anything that goes against the ideals and principals of Chivas. His taunting, his attacks unto icons (Hugo, Blanco, etc), his insulting classified ads (desplegados)... how is that humble? How is that representing Chivas? A team that stands for humility, the people, etc, etc. It doesnt.

Vergara is not stupid. He is a savy businessman. But so was Azcarraga Milmo.

And there is one thing that Vergara has yet to do that Azcarraga Milmo did back in 1959. Vergara has forgotten to hire people smarter than him.

The 1st thing Azcarraga Milmo did was hire the most successful football exec---Guillermo Canedo. Canedo was a tire salesman who landed a job with Zacatepec and got them some titles. His work in Zacatepec did not go unnotice.




In order to play meaningful games at the world stage, you have to win your domestic league. winning that or even coming in 2nd assure you spots in Copa Sudamericana, Copa Libertadores, etc

So therefore... no team can prepare to be worldclass, if they cant get their shyt together on the domestic front. IMPOSSIBLE...

the only way Real Madrid can play the Champions is by having their shyt together in league play... same with Boca... same with Inter...


Please dont compare us to America...I almost threw up in disgust

[franco]

I hate to break it to you, but Vergara is not innovative. Nor do I wish his style because quite frankly, that is our style. It is a watered down version of our style. His style is actually a carbon copy of Azcarraga Milmo's game plan (when he bought America back in 1959). His plan was to be the bad guy in the movie.

I was surprised to see Vergara take a more "odiame mas" approach because if anything that goes against the ideals and principals of Chivas. His taunting, his attacks unto icons (Hugo, Blanco, etc), his insulting classified ads (desplegados)... how is that humble? How is that representing Chivas? A team that stands for humility, the people, etc, etc. It doesnt.

Vergara is not stupid. He is a savy businessman. But so was Azcarraga Milmo.

And there is one thing that Vergara has yet to do that Azcarraga Milmo did back in 1959. Vergara has forgotten to hire people smarter than him.

The 1st thing Azcarraga Milmo did was hire the most successful football exec---Guillermo Canedo. Canedo was a tire salesman who landed a job with Zacatepec and got them some titles. His work in Zacatepec did not go unnotice.




In order to play meaningful games at the world stage, you have to win your domestic league. winning that or even coming in 2nd assure you spots in Copa Sudamericana, Copa Libertadores, etc

So therefore... no team can prepare to be worldclass, if they cant get their shyt together on the domestic front. IMPOSSIBLE...

the only way Real Madrid can play the Champions is by having their shyt together in league play... same with Boca... same with Inter...

...respect your opinion, but disagree...i stand firm with my believes and i believe 1)chivas fans need to be engaged more on their team; 2)vergara is innovating and determined on what he wants and how it would make that happen...then everyone follows its mark; 3)america and the rest are following that trend regardless if you think canyedo did it in the PAST and not NOW, and 4)wish chivas and any other mex. team represent us well internationally...

[LMvCP]

Please dont compare us to America...I almost threw up in disgust

It is the truth. Vergara is a smart in the sense that he knows that if you have more people hating you, it will result in higher ratings, increased attendence, etc

I think it was Manuel Seyde who said it best when he said that America had more "fans" than any other team in Mexico because on any given sunday, America had its fans watching them to win, and the rest of the country watching them hoping they would lose.

Vergara's "desplegados", insults, etc is a page out of Azcarraga's playbook in an attempt to get more people into the stands. I dont dislike Vergara for it. He is a business man

[LMvCP]

...respect your opinion, but disagree...i stand firm with my believes and i believe 1)chivas fans need to be engaged more on their team; 2)vergara is innovating and determined on what he wants and how it would make that happen, 3)america and the rest are following that trend regardless if you think canyedo did it in the PAST and not NOW, and 4)wish chivas and any other mex. team represent us well internationally...

I disagree because I dont believe it to be true, I know it to be true.

1) I am not questioning Vergara and his determination. Virtually every owner is determined (ie Azarraga Jean, Jesus Martinez (my respect to what he has done in Pachuca), etc

Which ever way Vergara can skin a cat is legit and more power to him.

2 & 3) I am questioning that he is not as innovative as YOU make him out to be.

Do you think this is something new for America? We are not following anybody.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/rdl674/odiamemas.jpg