Ruud, here next season? (2)

[benni...]

Well, that was before Keane left, Scholes and Smith missed more than half the season and David Jones was sent on loan.

Well if you werent considering major injuries, and Keane not playing half of the season (under whatever circumstances) thats your own fault.

[johno]

Well if you werent considering major injuries, and Keane not playing half of the season (under whatever circumstances) thats your own fault.

Well had Rio had a bust up with SAF, Silvestre missed half the season and Pique been sent on loan we'd have started half the games this season with O'Shea-Brown as our CB pairing with no back-up (bearing in mind Vidic doesn't come because we don't make "panic buys"). If you think Giggs/O'Shea is scary you've seen nothing yet.

Hell, If we'd have lost Ruud for this season and Rooney for half the season we'd have been up shit creek too.

Going into the season - Keane, Scholes, Fletcher, Jones, Smith, O'Shea should have been enough... we lost #1 and 2 for most of the season, number 4 for all of it and number 5 for half of it and number 3 for parts of it. That's just ludicrous.

[benni...]

Found this on another forum.

Setanta Sports can EXCLUSIVELY reveal the story behind the bust-up that saw Ruud van Nistelrooy dropped from the Manchester United team to face Charlton, a bust-up that could well presage the end of the Dutchman's Old Trafford career.

Speaking to Daire O'Brien on Setanta Sports' The Hub, European Soccer Correspondent Graeme Hunter explained the incident that caused Manchester United manager Sir Alex Ferguson to drop his star striker.

"In January, Ruud van Nistelrooy and Cristiano Ronaldo, who literally cannot stand the sight of each other, traded punches in training, and van Nistelrooy left Ronaldo with a broken face," Hunter explained.

"On Sunday, van Nistelrooy was not named in the Manchester United team, and as we all now know, he walks out.

"The roots are from a serious bust-up on the training pitch the day before, over a perennial row between the two. Ronaldo held onto the ball too long in training, and van Nistelrooy asked again: "Why do you keep onto the ball, why don't you pass to me? I am in position, I am the striker. Get the ball to me."

Hunter went on: "Ronaldo gives van Nistelrooy some lip, it ends up in a fight, and van Nistelrooy as he always does, needles into Ronaldo, and says "Yeah, yeah, go running to your Dad."

"He means Carlos Quieroz, Ferguson's assistant. Ronaldo's own father had died during the season, and finally, in the face of this abuse, Ronaldo burst into tears on the pitch and shouts "I don't have a Dad, he's dead."

This is the incident Sir Alex Ferguson spoke of after the game on Sunday when talked about a need to keep "team unity" at the club.

However, Hunter is not so keen to write off van Nistelrooy's Old Trafford career just yet.

"It is not necessarily the end for van Nistelrooy, because he is the goalscorer, and Ferguson still wants four strikers at the club.

"What Sir Alex may not know is that Cristiano Ronaldo is dead set on leaving Manchester United this summer, if Madrid will buy him. He personally has had enough of Manchester United, and English football. Also, he is greedy young lad, he wants more money, and he thinks that he can get it at Real Madrid. So, it may be that we are left with Ronaldo saying that he wants to go, and that van Nistelrooy and Ferguson may make their peace."

If true, its a case of haste and leisure. Tactless by Ruud, but sometimes people dont think.

Well as much sense as it might make, I dont believe this one.

[benni...]

Well had Rio had a bust up with SAF, Silvestre missed half the season and Pique been sent on loan we'd have started half the games this season with O'Shea-Brown as our CB pairing with no back-up (bearing in mind Vidic doesn't come because we don't make "panic buys"). If you think Giggs/O'Shea is scary you've seen nothing yet.

Hell, If we'd have lost Ruud for this season and Rooney for half the season we'd have been up shit creek too.

Going into the season - Keane, Scholes, Fletcher, Jones, Smith, O'Shea should have been enough... we lost #1 and 2 for most of the season, number 4 for all of it and number 5 for half of it and number 3 for parts of it. That's just ludicrous.

Take Jones off that list. Did you honestly think that he would figure prominently into the rotation?

Like I said, if you werent considering major injuries, and Keane not playing half of the season (under whatever circumstances) I made that thread because I know Scholes is a slow starter, Keane really didnt have much to offer in terms of his play physically, John Oshea, and Darren Fletcher wouldnt be good enough and David Jones wouldnt play much this season.

[Vermont Red]

I have to agree with Johno in that you cannot plan for serious injuries. No one reasonably could have anticipated losing both Scholes and Keane for most of the season. I still think we were light at CM, but we didn't need a top-class CM at that point. (And again, in my opinion, a top-class CM would have been wasted if Scholes and, especially, Keane stayed healthy.)

[benni...]

Keane shouldnt have been resigned for one more year.

[Vermont Red]

Keane shouldnt have been resigned for one more year.

I believe that Keane was resigned to not being re-signed.

[johno]

Take Jones off that list. Did you honestly think that he would figure prominently into the rotation?

Like I said, if you werent considering major injuries, and Keane not playing half of the season (under whatever circumstances) I made that thread because I know Scholes is a slow starter, Keane really didnt have much to offer in terms of his play physically, John Oshea, and Darren Fletcher wouldnt be good enough and David Jones wouldnt play much this season.

Jones was better in the reserves than Fletcher ever was. He's twice the player Fletcher is and he should have been down as the 3rd or 4th CM a direct replacement for Scholes. Like I said, I believe we had enough numbers... I did argue that I would have liked to increase quality, but not numbers. 5 or 6 players for two slots is more than enough - you just need quality.

[The Guv'nor]

So how do we justify dropping Ruud? He was a MAJOR part of us having a terrific season. We didn't start playing well when Saha came into the team, we played well all season long 83 points is a testament to that. If you can find a way drop Ruud based on what we were doing and what he was doing all season long then you MUST be able to find a way to drop Saha and Rooney in the midst of a good run. Its only fair.


I would hardly call it a terrific season. Out of Europe at the group stages, failed to challenge in the league again. In the games before the Cup final Saha had done well against Fulham, Ruud had scored at Portsmouth. Then came that cup game against Liverpool which was a shambles (apparently Fergie was talked out of playing Ruud here by Carlos). We looked slightly better when Saha came on up front. We played well in the cup final which was the game after that, there was no reason to change the team for the next game. The Wigan game after that wasn't as easy but Fergie still didn't change it for Newcastle & that was a stroll. Then there was West Brom after that, we won again, remember we were trying to secure second place so there wasn't much point in changing the team. I missed the 3 games after this so can't comment, Ruud made important contributions though.

[K_19]

Well as much sense as it might make, I dont believe this one.

Thing is, I don't remember Ronaldo with any kind of "broken face" in January. :confused:

[Unorthodox Yank]

If Ruud was actually pissed off at Ronaldo for holding the ball for too long...well...I honestly don't blame him. Ruud IS the striker, and he SHOULD be getting the ball near the goal. That's the point. If Ronaldo can't handle criticism from someone who is clearly his senior, that's his problem, not Ruud's.

That said, I don't understand how having a problem with Cristiano and not being named to the starting 11 link to each other. I mean, it's not like it stopped SAF before...

[Invincible]

Ok so this whole Ruud issue stemmed from the defeat to Liverpool in the Fa Cup....

Hold up hold up...didn't we play poorly at Liverpool because of Alex's tactical ineptitude in the first place? I remember cursing when I saw how the team lined up. We went their trying to play some negative bullshit, and got punished. So Ruud is to blame for not being effective in a "433" dross?

[johno]

I would hardly call it a terrific season. Out of Europe at the group stages, failed to challenge in the league again. In the games before the Cup final Saha had done well against Fulham, Ruud had scored at Portsmouth. Then came that cup game against Liverpool which was a shambles (apparently Fergie was talked out of playing Ruud here by Carlos). We looked slightly better when Saha came on up front. We played well in the cup final which was the game after that, there was no reason to change the team for the next game. The Wigan game after that wasn't as easy but Fergie still didn't change it for Newcastle & that was a stroll. Then there was West Brom after that, we won again, remember we were trying to secure second place so there wasn't much point in changing the team. I missed the 3 games after this so can't comment, Ruud made important contributions though.

Europe aside, we got to the FA Cup semi's losing to a very good liverpool side and we finished with a point total higher than that of 5 premiership winning seasons... We would have been runaway leaders at the time Ruud was dropped bar Stamford Rubles.

[The Guv'nor]

Europe aside, we got to the FA Cup semi's losing to a very good liverpool side and we finished with a point total higher than that of 5 premiership winning seasons... We would have been runaway leaders at the time Ruud was dropped bar Stamford Rubles.

We didn't reach the semis.

I'm not clear on your last point. Are you saying if it wasn't for Chelsea we would be winning the league by a distance? Liverpool were close to us if I remember correctly.

[kriele]

This is was happened according to a dutch televisionprogram:
Ferguson needs money to compete with Chelsea. Ruud has a 2 year contract and Ferguson wants to sell him now. His son has offered Ruud to Juventus and another big club. Those clubs were prepared to offer a lot of money for Ruud.
But Ruud doesn't want to leave! That's when the teasings and herassments from Ferguson started. Keeping him on the bench and saying that his attitude is not ok. And he was one of the few that openly defended Keane and now Ferguson does not want him at the Keane goodbye-game(is that a good english word?;) )

This is the story according to the dutch footballprogramm Voetbalinsite.


And according to that same tv programm Ruud will be going back to Manchester after the worldcup and report for training. He has no intention to leave the club because he absolutely does not want to leave.

[johno]

We didn't reach the semis.

I'm not clear on your last point. Are you saying if it wasn't for Chelsea we would be winning the league by a distance? Liverpool were close to us if I remember correctly.

maybe, iirc we had a decent lead over them at some point this season... but the point is we'd have won the league. I'm sorry, FA Cup quarters or whatever it was... it was a bad draw to get one of the top 3 teams in England... when you consider what we've done against the top 4 this season you can hardly fault us for not winning that one too.

[The Jitty Slitter]

This is was happened according to a dutch televisionprogram:
Ferguson needs money to compete with Chelsea. Ruud has a 2 year contract and Ferguson wants to sell him now. His son has offered Ruud to Juventus and another big club. Those clubs were prepared to offer a lot of money for Ruud.
But Ruud doesn't want to leave! That's when the teasings and herassments from Ferguson started. Keeping him on the bench and saying that his attitude is not ok. And he was one of the few that openly defended Keane and now Ferguson does not want him at the Keane goodbye-game(is that a good english word?;) )

This is the story according to the dutch footballprgramm Voetbalinsite.

LMAO - i guess i am a psychic (at least in Holland - eh Benni ;) )

[The Guv'nor]

We haven't done well enough agaisnt the top four. We beat the big 3 at home, but away we failed. Chelsea went to Anfield and won, we went to Anfield and drew, and seemed happy with it:mad: .

Chelsea went to Highbury and won, we drew.

[StrikerCW]

This is all rubbish. Ronaldo in, Ruud out. And VR is a loser. Who knows how to spell Admintium?

[johno]

We haven't done well enough agaisnt the top four. We beat the big 3 at home, but away we failed. Chelsea went to Anfield and won, we went to Anfield and drew, and seemed happy with it:mad: .

Chelsea went to Highbury and won, we drew.

I've heard it bandied about somewhere that of the top 4 we've got the best record of the top 4 clubs (excluding each particular top 4 club and adding in the 5th top club).