So much for the "Israel" smokescreen

[#10 Jersey]

We have been told that the Palestinians don't have a problem with Jews, just the Zionist entity. How does one explain this then?

Abu Samhadana: Jews our only enemy; I'll go on pulling triggerhttp://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/images/0.gifBy Haaretz Servicehttp://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/images/0.gifJamal Abu Samhadana, the wanted leader of the armed Popular Resistance Committees whose appointment to a senior Palestinian Authority police post sparked a bitter feud between Hamas and Fatah, told the Sunday Telegraph newspaper that his only enemy is the Jews, and that the paramilitary force he was nominated to create was to become the "nucleus of the future Palestinian army."

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=708275&contrassID=1&subContrassID=0&sbSubContrassID=0


So is this type of racism acceptable? Should we regard them with more $$?

[sardus_pater]

I don't know if that is to be viewed as racism. With "the jews" they mean the israelis, similar to israelis and pro-israelis when they talk about "the arabs" when referring to palestinians.

Racism is certainly there, btw, a by-product of the hatred and it is a mutual phenomenon.
The phenomenon is understandably more of a problem where frustration, ignorance, poverty etc. etc. are higher (ie the palestinian side).

[odessit19]

I don't know if that is to be viewed as racism. With "the jews" they mean the israelis, similar to israelis and pro-israelis when they talk about "the arabs" when referring to palestinians.

Racism is certainly there, btw, a by-product of the hatred and it is a mutual phenomenon.
The phenomenon is understandably more of a problem where frustration, ignorance, poverty etc. etc. are higher (ie the palestinian side).

Again, shocking answer by Sardus. You are too predictable, right away shift the blame away from the source of the problem and say there are also problems with Israelis/Jews. Your knowledge of this subject is superceded by your absolute naiveness of actual reality and hate for Israel.

[#10 Jersey]

I don't know if that is to be viewed as racism. With "the jews" they mean the israelis, similar to israelis and pro-israelis when they talk about "the arabs" when referring to palestinians.

Racism is certainly there, btw, a by-product of the hatred and it is a mutual phenomenon.
The phenomenon is understandably more of a problem where frustration, ignorance, poverty etc. etc. are higher (ie the palestinian side).

I wasn't talking about why it happens, but you certainly took the opportunity to apologize once again for their behavior. My point was that we are consistently told that this has nothing to do with anti-semitism, it's a local territorial dispute...Yeah right. It's about not wanting dirty Jews on their land.

[Amerikaki]

I don't know if that is to be viewed as racism. With "the jews" they mean the israelis, similar to israelis and pro-israelis when they talk about "the arabs" when referring to palestinians.

Racism is certainly there, btw, a by-product of the hatred and it is a mutual phenomenon.
The phenomenon is understandably more of a problem where frustration, ignorance, poverty etc. etc. are higher (ie the palestinian side).


Hamas and Fatah recently threatened to target all Jews living outside of Israel as part of their terrorist war. Please don't try to say "oh they mean the Israeli's, not the Jews". First of all, if that was true, it wouldn't be an excuse it would just be approval of terrorist activies within Israel. Secondly, its not true.

Note: Until recently, Fatah did not directly participate in terrorist activities. Their "military" branch called Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade instead filled in for those duties. The reason that today they have no problem doing this directly is because they realized the Palestinian population votes for terrorism which is why Hamas won the elections. Fatah thinks that if they too resort to terrorism again, they can win the next elections.

Pretty sad. In Israel the politicians campaign on the "best way to achieve peace with the Palestinians" platform. In the Palestinian territories they campaign based on who kills more Jews.

[sardus_pater]

Again, shocking answer by Sardus. You are too predictable, right away shift the blame away from the source of the problem and say there are also problems with Israelis/Jews. Your knowledge of this subject is superceded by your absolute naiveness of actual reality and hate for Israel.

I don't think that understanding the motives is = condoning or agreeing.

Why do exist racist sites like masada2000.org (http://www.masada2000.org/cancerwithin.html)?

ISRAEL'S GROWING CANCER

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE ARAB Citizens of Israel!


To hope for palestinians to not tend to extend their hatred towards the Jewish Homeland to "the Jews" IS naive. Especially given the amount of help and support the world jewish community give to Israel in any shape or form.

The same phenomenon happens with the arabs and to many israelis/pro-israelis affecting the way they see "the arabs".

Again, it is also not hard to understand why the phenomenon is greater where frustration, ignorance and poverty is widespread.

If you are looking for the better way to fight the phenomenon it's easy to spot. A fair satisfactory agreement for both the parts of the conflict and a bettering of the wealth conditions of palestinians. Then hatred and the racism connected to that would disminuish greatly.

I have the impression that you and others are only interested to paint the enemy the worse way possible and nothing more. I could be wrong though.

[sardus_pater]

I wasn't talking about why it happens, but you certainly took the opportunity to apologize once again for their behavior. My point was that we are consistently told that this has nothing to do with anti-semitism, it's a local territorial dispute...Yeah right. It's about not wanting dirty Jews on their land.

http://www.masada2000.org/cancerwithin.html

And for someone else it's about not wanting dirty arabs on their land.

Do we follow the idiots and the idiocies, adding fuel to the cycle of violence, or do we try and find and work for the best solution?

[sardus_pater]

Pretty sad. In Israel the politicians campaign on the "best way to achieve peace with the Palestinians" platform. In the Palestinian territories they campaign based on who kills more Jews.

And don't you think that the different situations (a functioning Israel vs the non existing and militarily occupied palestinian state) of the 2 parts have something to do with that?

[yasik19]

poor poor Palestinians. We, the poeple of Sardinia, sympathize with all the people of Palestine who are under constant opression by those filthy Jews.....excuse me, i mean, Israelis.

Sincerely, Sardus Pater

The ambassador of Sardinia.

[sardus_pater]

poor poor Palestinians. We, the poeple of Sardinia, sympathize with all the people of Palestine who are under constant opression by those filthy Jews.....excuse me, i mean, Israelis.

Sincerely, Sardus Pater

The ambassador of Sardinia.

I am the ambassador of myself, Yasik. If you like I am the ambassador of the good use of human brain.

The ultimate point btw, in case it was not clear, is that to suggest that palestinians fight (butchery terrorist attacks included) is because they're antisemite and that they use their (supposedly fake) struggle as a smokescreen is lysergic on so many levels and if it is not lysergic it worrily borders paranoia.

So I preferred to argue about the motives of the undoubtly existent racism to save something in this thread.

[yasik19]

I am the ambassador of myself, Yasik. If you like I am the ambassador of the good use of human brain.

The ultimate point btw, in case it was not clear, is that to suggest that palestinians fight (butchery terrorist attacks included) is because they're antisemite and that they use their (supposedly fake) struggle as a smokescreen is lysergic on so many levels and if it is not lysergic it worrily borders paranoia.

So I preferred to argue about the motives of the undoubtly existent racism to save something in this thread.

wrong. You have never, ever taken the other side. You only discuss motives to suit your own argument, and in your case, it's the opinion that all problems arise with Israel and not the other way around. That's why, even with such articles as posted above, you still like to shift the blame away from Palestinians and lay it on the shoulders of the Israelis.

[BenReilly]

There will not be peace in the Middle East until Bulgaria is given its proper leadership role in solving this crisis. Both Israelis and Palestinians are equally to blame for not recognizing that Bulgaria's sphere of influence extends throughout the Middle East.

[Amerikaki]

And don't you think that the different situations (a functioning Israel vs the non existing and militarily occupied palestinian state) of the 2 parts have something to do with that?



WOW you just justified a platform based on who killed more Jews. I don't care what your demented reasoning is....you should be ashamed. Although it should be hard to be shocked by such justification and reasoning, being that it comes from people with your kind of mentality, it still is shocking.

Maybe you should live with these people for alittle while, and then post your opinions. But don't live with them after declaring yourself an opponent to "the zionist regime" and that you stand in solidarity with the Palestinian people. Say one bad thing about them, and lets see you escape with your body intact. Try to justify even ONE thing that Israel does and let's see you post something in their defense after what they do to you...Its so easy to be a critic from the outside. It's so easy to look at a situation in a split second and judge from the outside. There is a history here.....Israel was attacked and attacked and attacked, by the Arabs who themselves rejected the Palestinians and the Palestinians themselves, who's anger wa sfueled by the Arabs who reject them and subject them to worse conditions then Israel does.

You are so ignorant. Maybe because you choose to be, so you can say bad stuff about the Jews...I mean Israel...sorry.

[sardus_pater]

There will not be peace in the Middle East until Bulgaria is given its proper leadership role in solving this crisis. Both Israelis and Palestinians are equally to blame for not recognizing that Bulgaria's sphere of influence extends throughout the Middle East.

Finally someone making sense. :p

[sardus_pater]

WOW you just justified a platform based on who killed more Jews. I don't care what your demented reasoning is....you should be ashamed. Although it should be hard to be shocked by such justification and reasoning, being that it comes from people with your kind of mentality, it still is shocking.

I did? Fascinating. The lysergic mention I did was not far stretched I see.

I did not know I said this. I thought I was arguing about the connection "hatred generated by the conflict/racism phenomena".

Maybe you should live with these people for alittle while, and then post your opinions. But don't live with them after declaring yourself an opponent to "the zionist regime" and that you stand in solidarity with the Palestinian people. Say one bad thing about them, and lets see you escape with your body intact.

I was thinking about emulating Woody Allen and go in some black neighborhood, shout "n*****s!" and then run away instead.
But going amidst hamas guys and shout "f***k Palestine!" is a good idea also.

Try to justify even ONE thing that Israel does and let's see you post something in their defense after what they do to you...Its so easy to be a critic from the outside. It's so easy to look at a situation in a split second and judge from the outside. There is a history here.....Israel was attacked and attacked and attacked, by the Arabs who themselves rejected the Palestinians and the Palestinians themselves, who's anger wa sfueled by the Arabs who reject them and subject them to worse conditions then Israel does.

:confused:

You are so ignorant. Maybe because you choose to be, so you can say bad stuff about the Jews...I mean Israel...sorry.

And tell me, where did I say bad stuff about "the jews"?

btw Being neutral (ie not being involved directly, ethnically, religiously etc. no hatred and stuff) is good, not bad in trying to have the most balanced view possible of (all) the issues.

Of course, i am playing the pro-palestinian advocate part here and I will continue to do so. I think there's more need of it than yet another added voice in the choir of the "how ugly palestinians are" song.

Pardon if I don't follow you in the discussion about the history of the conflict. I don't feel like starting it once again for the 1000th time now.
I also think it has little to do with the precise topic of this thread.

[sardus_pater]

wrong. You have never, ever taken the other side. You only discuss motives to suit your own argument, and in your case, it's the opinion that all problems arise with Israel and not the other way around. That's why, even with such articles as posted above, you still like to shift the blame away from Palestinians and lay it on the shoulders of the Israelis.

I think you didn't get the exact meaning of this phrase

I don't think that understanding the motives is = condoning or agreeing.

The blame for (most of*) the racist phenomena is on the conflict not on Israel.

*Sadly racism exists and will continue to exist anywhere.

[#10 Jersey]

http://www.masada2000.org/cancerwithin.html

And for someone else it's about not wanting dirty arabs on their land.

Do we follow the idiots and the idiocies, adding fuel to the cycle of violence, or do we try and find and work for the best solution?

Your debate style is so intellectually dishonest as to make it impossible to engage in true debate.

You equate a minority opinion by some israelis with the majority opinion of palestinians.

you equate a minority opinion by some israelis with comments made by the elected government of the palestinians.

[yasik19]

The blame for (most of*) the racist phenomena is on the conflict not on Israel.

Since you just stated that this is a conflict, let me throw this out to you. As you know, conflict involves 2 or more entities (mostly 2 in this case). So, and hear me out on this one, why don't you, for once, try to see things from the "other" side. Now i know you sympathize with Palestinians, but just for the sake of a BS dare, put on a different pair of shoes. Until you can do that, nobody will seriously believe that you are unbias.

[sardus_pater]

Your debate style is so intellectually dishonest as to make it impossible to engage in true debate.

You equate a minority opinion by some israelis with the majority opinion of palestinians.

you equate a minority opinion by some israelis with comments made by the elected government of the palestinians.

... :)

The phenomenon is understandably more of a problem where frustration, ignorance, poverty etc. etc. are higher (ie the palestinian side).

[sardus_pater]

Since you just stated that this is a conflict, let me throw this out to you. As you know, conflict involves 2 or more entities (mostly 2 in this case). So, and hear me out on this one, why don't you, for once, try to see things from the "other" side. Now i know you sympathize with Palestinians, but just for the sake of a BS dare, put on a different pair of shoes. Until you can do that, nobody will seriously believe that you are unbias.

The future Palestinian State (ie the occupied territories) will comprise less than half of the land that was given to the arab state by UN.
A punishment enough for the wars they and the supposed arab "brothers" unwisely started.

The palestinians MUST renounce the right of return and substitute it with some (very limited) symbolic return and financial refunds.