klinsmann calls Nowotny to fitness test

[poorvi]

totally disagree. Wörns is in no way better than Nowotny. He is just as slow but has inferior passing. Nowotny is just way smarter than him (as a player and as a person).
Also Klinsmann sacked him because of his personality which showed again last weekend when he punched Kießling in the face with his elbow and then accused him of diving and still doing so after the match. What an a..hole.

I agree that Woerns has some ego issues from before. He is more prone to making unnecessary fouls. Remember the foul on Suker in World Cup 98. But he is a better defender. Nowotny is too slow. I can't beleive you are comparing Nowotny and Woerns in speed. The second goal the Czechs scored ( Baros) against Germany was mainly due to the slow running of Nowotny, and his more than that due to his slow reflexes. If Nowotny makes a lunge for the ball, and misses, he is just to too slow to get himself together again, and have another go. The forwards would be lightyears ahead of him by then.

[Bayerntone]

Is Nowotny the best? Of cource not. Fans and team managers are always greedy, looking for more. If not, who? Many of us would prefer Woerns over Nowotny.

I don't know how many of you folks have the opportunities of watching both Woerns and Nowotny play for a considerable no. of matches before we made our comments. I don't. But I rely on kicker to give me some guidance.

Since his return from injuries, Nowotny has been able to accumulate an average of 2.89 performance ratings; while Woerns 2.75. There is not an awful lot of difference. Nowotny is about 2 years younger than Woerns. Standing 3cm taller and 7 kg heavier. Physically Nowotny is slightly better built.

Is his phyical conditions up to the tasks? Then I think Klinsi has done what a professional manager should do: the fitness test.

Speed is important. But other factors such as positioning, tackling skills, anticipation, blocking, communication, good passing skills, ball control, aerial dominance, sound determination, team unity and chemistry ... are also imperative for a good defender. Personally I don't think Woerns is much faster than Nowotny, if he is at all.

These plus LebenslangGruenWeiss' information about Woerns misbehaviour, I would give Nowotny my vote that his being called by Klinsi is absolutely correct!

[ohk4]

re: Scholl

didn't he retire before the 2002 World Cup and
didn't he turn Völler down before the Euro 2004 (not completely sure on this one)

Why does he deserve a Swan Song now?

[The Old Lady Hertha]

Kicker says that Nowotny passed the fitness test.
Also states that those who missed it (i.e. Torsten Frings, who is hurt) must take part in the last fitness test in Sardinia May 16-May 21.
Also, no more Goalkeeper rotation

[Psychosis hsv]

Kicker says that Nowotny passed the fitness test.
Also states that those who missed it (i.e. Torsten Frings, who is hurt) must take part in the last fitness test in Sardinia May 16-May 21.
Also, no more Goalkeeper rotation
i heard klinsi talking and i am sure nowotny will be in first 11. so who will he drop? i think he needs a very fast defensive midfielder to cover pace weakness
who will he bench? huth or mertersacker? i hope it will be mertersacker

[ForeverRed]

I don't think there is a question about who is better between Woerns and Novotny, Woerns is still one of the best man markers around. And it very much is personal, being that he ousted Woerns and isn't willing to call him up when he is the better choice over Novotny.

[footyfan1]

Is Nowotny the best? Of cource not. Fans and team managers are always greedy, looking for more. If not, who? Many of us would prefer Woerns over Nowotny.

I don't know how many of you folks have the opportunities of watching both Woerns and Nowotny play for a considerable no. of matches before we made our comments. I don't. But I rely on kicker to give me some guidance.

Since his return from injuries, Nowotny has been able to accumulate an average of 2.89 performance ratings; while Woerns 2.75. There is not an awful lot of difference. Nowotny is about 2 years younger than Woerns. Standing 3cm taller and 7 kg heavier. Physically Nowotny is slightly better built.

Is his phyical conditions up to the tasks? Then I think Klinsi has done what a professional manager should do: the fitness test.

Speed is important. But other factors such as positioning, tackling skills, anticipation, blocking, communication, good passing skills, ball control, aerial dominance, sound determination, team unity and chemistry ... are also imperative for a good defender. Personally I don't think Woerns is much faster than Nowotny, if he is at all.

These plus LebenslangGruenWeiss' information about Woerns misbehaviour, I would give Nowotny my vote that his being called by Klinsi is absolutely correct!


Calling up Nowotny would be a mistake. He's freakin done. I don't care what "LebenslangGruenWeiss" had to say about Woerns. Check the stats. Right now the best German central defender is named Christian Woerns.

A$$hole or not, personal issues or not, you take the best. Lothar Mattheaus was an a$$hole too and no one complained about him.

That is, except for 2002 when an old a$$hole Mattheaus was forced on the rest of the team.

And that's another thing different with Woerns. Woerns' problems are not with the rest of the team. Woerns problems are with the coach.

Woerns is actually popular with the other players.

And before you say a player who doesn't get along with a coach would hurt the team, as I recall, Matthias Sammer was none too fond of Berti Vogts, but that didn't stop them from winning Euro 96, did it??

I can't help it that some fans of other teams choose not to like Christian Woerns. Yeah, he was wrong for what he did against, Kiessling, but let he who is without sin..........

Dude, you are usually so much more level headed. I rail against players I don't like too, but when I choose to condemn a player like you did, I don't need anyone else's opinion to do it. Especially one that was so blatantly laced with personal hatred.

Woerns is a dead issue anyhow. Klinsmann isn't taking him and I think he's justified in not doing so. I think he's wrong, but he's the boss.

My opinion on possibly taking Nowotny is this:

Take Nowotny and Germany will be sorry. And the central defense will be even sorrier than it is now.

[footyfan1]

i heard klinsi talking and i am sure nowotny will be in first 11. so who will he drop? i think he needs a very fast defensive midfielder to cover pace weakness
who will he bench? huth or mertersacker? i hope it will be mertersacker


Huth will be sent home. He doesn't play for his team and he's been crap in his Germany appearances too. Huth doesn't deserve to go to the World Cup.

[footyfan1]

I don't think there is a question about who is better between Woerns and Novotny, Woerns is still one of the best man markers around. And it very much is personal, being that he ousted Woerns and isn't willing to call him up when he is the better choice over Novotny.


A voice of reason!!

Some just can't get past the hate......

[footyfan1]

re: Scholl

didn't he retire before the 2002 World Cup and
didn't he turn Völler down before the Euro 2004 (not completely sure on this one)

Why does he deserve a Swan Song now?


Because the almighty Bayern wants it to happen.......

[footyfan1]

I fail to understand the logic behind not nominating Scholl.

FOr me i think Klinsi is doing it just so that he can have the minimum faction of Bayern players in his squad. Bayern had four guaranteed starters not so long ago and now the only ones sure of their palce are Ballack and Lahm. Thats two. Kahn relegated and Deisler out injured.

No other Bayern player will make the squad.

Its a case of personal fueds getting in the way.


Not in this case. Scholl still hasn't passed others who are already in the national team set up.

With this coach, you don't get special points because you play for Bayern Muenchen. That's how it was in the past, but there's a new sheriff in town.

Welcome to the new age of the German National team. Where you are judged fairly no matter what Bundesliga shirt you wear.

[The Old Lady Hertha]

If that was the case, Malik Fathi and Sebastian Kehl and Frank Fahrenhorst would have been called up a long time ago and Christoph Metzelder, Robert Huth and Lukas Podolski would have been dropped a long time ago.

It is a new sheriff in town yes, but being judged fairly? I don't think so. IIRC, Christian Woerns was not judged too fairly, am I not correct? ;)

[footyfan1]

If that was the case, Malik Fathi and Sebastian Kehl and Frank Fahrenhorst would have been called up a long time ago and Christoph Metzelder, Robert Huth and Lukas Podolski would have been dropped a long time ago.

It is a new sheriff in town yes, but being judged fairly? I don't think so. IIRC, Christian Woerns was not judged too fairly, am I not correct? ;)


As far as your first paragraph goes, no, Metzelder, Huth and Podolski had the luxury of already being in the National Team setup. I didn't agree with keeping Metzelder or Huth in the team in front of Woerns, but again, that was an intestinal fortitude issue on the part of the coach.

Kehl got his chance, didn't he? YES!

Dude, don't even come at me with Fathi. I don't play the "favorites" game and that's what you're doing there. Besides, doesn't he play U-21?? That would be like me calling for Odonkor to be called up, but I know he's not ready!

I know you love him, but neither is Fathi....... :rolleyes:


As far as how Woerns was judged, I don't think Woerns was "judged", Woerns was treated dishonestly and when he erupted, everyone took that opportunity to throw even more dirt on him.

Everyone has their version of what happened. I know Woerns' side. Klinsi didn't totally deny any of it.

Enough said for me.

However, Klinsmann is the boss and if he doesn't want to take Woerns, nobody can make him.

Besides, if there wasn't a new sheriff in town and people weren't being judged fairly, wouldn't Oliver Kahn still be #1???

Like I said, I don't play favorites, I don't think Klinsi does either.......

[The Old Lady Hertha]

As far as your first paragraph goes, no, Metzelder, Huth and Podolski had the luxury of already being in the National Team setup. I didn't agree with keeping Metzelder or Huth in the team in front of Woerns, but again, that was an intestinal fortitude issue on the part of the coach.

Kehl got his chance, didn't he? YES!

Dude, don't even come at me with Fathi. I don't play the "favorites" game and that's what you're doing there. Besides, doesn't he play U-21?? That would be like me calling for Odonkor to be called up, but I know he's not ready!

I know you love him, but neither is Fathi....... :rolleyes:
Ok maybe I was playing favorites, but if I'd have a defense who sucks ass like ours does, I'd be more comfortable to have Fathi in the bench rather than Jansen, but thats my person opinion.

And what "luxury" are you talking about? Kuranyi has been axed for the last friendly, he's DEFINITELY part of the NT setup. And when Klinsi came to power, Hamann and Woerns had the "luxury" of being on the NT setup. What did that get them? The axe.

IMO, no one has a "Luxury" of being on the NT setup. The only thing that is certain is that Klinsi will favor the young guns over the experienced hands.

As far as how Woerns was judged, I don't think Woerns was "judged", Woerns was treated dishonestly and when he erupted, everyone took that opportunity to throw even more dirt on him.

Everyone has their version of what happened. I know Woerns' side. Klinsi didn't totally deny any of it.

Enough said for me.

However, Klinsmann is the boss and if he doesn't want to take Woerns, nobody can make him.

Besides, if there wasn't a new sheriff in town and people weren't being judged fairly, wouldn't Oliver Kahn still be #1???

Like I said, I don't play favorites, I don't think Klinsi does either.......

I guess I'll agree here. ;) It was a bad situation that needed a heavy boot to stamp it out. Klinsi showed no mercy here, rather than let it sit and gather intensity (like the gk situation, but that is a different situation, this was a situation that could have really undermined the position of the coach and maybe some of the team).

[footyfan1]

Ok maybe I was playing favorites, but if I'd have a defense who sucks ass like ours does, I'd be more comfortable to have Fathi in the bench rather than Jansen, but thats my person opinion.

And what "luxury" are you talking about? Kuranyi has been axed for the last friendly, he's DEFINITELY part of the NT setup. And when Klinsi came to power, Hamann and Woerns had the "luxury" of being on the NT setup. What did that get them? The axe.

IMO, no one has a "Luxury" of being on the NT setup. The only thing that is certain is that Klinsi will favor the young guns over the experienced hands.

Dude, the "luxury" doesn't mean they stay on the team no matter what. It means it's just a bit harder to get them off the team.

Kuranyi should have been off the team a LONG TIME AGO, don't you agree??

Yet, it took this long. That's the "luxury".

You mentioned Podolski before. He was in s#it form for most of the season, now, he's looking like "Prince Poldi" again. Klinsi is justified in sticking with him. That's the "luxury".....

And if his second half appearance in last Saturday's match is any indication, Klinsi might get rewarded for sticking with Metzelder too.

I didn't agree with it, but Klinsi may have been right......




I guess I'll agree here. ;) It was a bad situation that needed a heavy boot to stamp it out. Klinsi showed no mercy here, rather than let it sit and gather intensity (like the gk situation, but that is a different situation, this was a situation that could have really undermined the position of the coach and maybe some of the team).

A situation that could have been avoided if the coach had grabbed his nuts and told the player he wasn't going to use him from the start. My opinion is that Klinsmann was dishonest with Woerns even if only partially. Klinsmann's mistake was in not dealing with Woerns man-to-man. The two were ex-teammates, Klinsi could have shown that much respect to a veteran player.

And Woerns f'ed up by exploding the way he did. Woerns should have kept his cool and waited until he got Klinsi himself. He shouldn't have HAD to do that, but that's what he should have done. I can sympathize with him and understand why he exploded, but in the end, he was still wrong.

[The Old Lady Hertha]

Dude, the "luxury" doesn't mean they stay on the team no matter what. It means it's just a bit harder to get them off the team.

Kuranyi should have been off the team a LONG TIME AGO, don't you agree??

Yet, it took this long. That's the "luxury".

You mentioned Podolski before. He was in s#it form for most of the season, now, he's looking like "Prince Poldi" again. Klinsi is justified in sticking with him. That's the "luxury".....

And if his second half appearance in last Saturday's match is any indication, Klinsi might get rewarded for sticking with Metzelder too.

I didn't agree with it, but Klinsi may have been right......

I actually, for one, DON'T AGREE! I think Kuranyi is still (unfortunately) one of our best strikers and capable of scoring for the NT! I agree on the rest, but only in the pretext that Podolski is young and has a lot of hype and that Metzelder is there because of a real lack of defensive options.






A situation that could have been avoided if the coach had grabbed his nuts and told the player he wasn't going to use him from the start. My opinion is that Klinsmann was dishonest with Woerns even if only partially. Klinsmann's mistake was in not dealing with Woerns man-to-man. The two were ex-teammates, Klinsi could have shown that much respect to a veteran player.

And Woerns f'ed up by exploding the way he did. Woerns should have kept his cool and waited until he got Klinsi himself. He shouldn't have HAD to do that, but that's what he should have done. I can sympathize with him and understand why he exploded, but in the end, he was still wrong.

Well whats done is done. I'm not terribly thrilled about how it ended, but its over and we can move on.

[footyfan1]

I actually, for one, DON'T AGREE! I think Kuranyi is still (unfortunately) one of our best strikers and capable of scoring for the NT! I agree on the rest, but only in the pretext that Podolski is young and has a lot of hype and that Metzelder is there because of a real lack of defensive options.

Kuranyi can't hit an open f#cking net for his club these days, what makes you think he can score for the NT??




Well whats done is done. I'm not terribly thrilled about how it ended, but its over and we can move on.

Exactly. You see how angry I was about it when it first happened, but I got over it and moved on. Klinsi and Woerns should do the same.

I will say that I think calling up Nowotny instead of Woerns is a tragedy.

But Woerns made his own bed. Now he has to lie in it.

[The Old Lady Hertha]

Kuranyi can't hit an open f#cking net for his club these days, what makes you think he can score for the NT??






And all our strikers below him can? He's still our only big threat as an out-and-out striker. Neuville and Asamoah? Supporting Strikers. Ditto for Thurk. Kiessling? Vittek is taking all his goals, which I think tells me something about Kiessling and Vittek's mentality.

Face it, Kuranyi is sucking now, but DO WE HAVE BETTER OPTIONS IN THE BACKUP STRIKER ROLE??

[scorpio81]

calling up nowotny is a big mistake... the guy has been a disaster when playing for germany in every international tournament...

as far as scholl goes, i dunno wanna post in the other thread cos im still getting used to the slower net connection, but does anybody know where trochowski stands in all this? is he in the 35 man squad? i would not at all feel aggrieved if klinsi would ignore scholls possible impact and go for trochowski to bring on some creativity and unpredictability to unsettle the opponents...

im quite a fan of piotr and feel he deserves a spot on this world cup roster as deislers replacement...

[ForeverRed]

calling up nowotny is a big mistake... the guy has been a disaster when playing for germany in every international tournament...

as far as scholl goes, i dunno wanna post in the other thread cos im still getting used to the slower net connection, but does anybody know where trochowski stands in all this? is he in the 35 man squad? i would not at all feel aggrieved if klinsi would ignore scholls possible impact and go for trochowski to bring on some creativity and unpredictability to unsettle the opponents...

im quite a fan of piotr and feel he deserves a spot on this world cup roster as deislers replacement...

I'd like to see Piotr as well, Scholl too but I doubt Klinsman will make the right decision and go with them.

Doesn't Trochowski usually play in the center for HSV?