Okay, DirectTV or Dish for World Cup?

[dncm]

For all us hopeful cable users who will get screwed because ESPN2HD will not get added in time for the World Cup, wanted to create a central place for this.

I think in bunches of different threads there is opinions on either of these and the sticky at the top is great, but there is TV info in there, and I want to keep this discussion strictly to comparing these satellites with current info to avoid confusion (hence why I didn't resurrect the thread from over a year ago that someone had posted). Mods, if you disagree and want to merge with one of these 2 threads, I guess I will have to live with it.

For those who have researched, which is the way to go - and not just strictly for soccer. Keeping in mind that this switch will happen by June which would be the one to go with in terms of HD and DVR and cost and service/quality and soccer of course.

If anyone can give a summary update of where DirectTV is with TIVO disentanglement and this MPEG4 thing, and does Dish have any of the same issues? Again keeping in mind we are talking about switching in less than 60 days for the World Cup.

Thanks in advance.

[joebloe888]

For all us hopeful cable users who will get screwed because ESPN2HD will not get added in time for the World Cup, wanted to create a central place for this.

I think in bunches of different threads there is opinions on either of these and the sticky at the top is great, but there is TV info in there, and I want to keep this discussion strictly to comparing these satellites with current info to avoid confusion (hence why I didn't resurrect the thread from over a year ago that someone had posted). Mods, if you disagree and want to merge with one of these 2 threads, I guess I will have to live with it.

For those who have researched, which is the way to go - and not just strictly for soccer. Keeping in mind that this switch will happen by June which would be the one to go with in terms of HD and DVR and cost and service/quality and soccer of course.

If anyone can give a summary update of where DirectTV is with TIVO disentanglement and this MPEG4 thing, and does Dish have any of the same issues? Again keeping in mind we are talking about switching in less than 60 days for the World Cup.


Caveat Emptor!

--

DISH Network requires the new MPEG4 receivers/DVR's to get ESPN2HD.

Judging by past performance of DISH Network receivers and DVR's, the first batch of hardware coming out of the factory is usually full of software bugs.

DISH Network DVR's in particular have had a rather ugly history of trouble when a new model is first deployed.

One would expect trouble, particularly with the MPEG4 DVR's, due to DISH Network's prior track record.

--

With DirecTV switching from Sony, RCA, Samsung, etc. hardware to its own DirecTV-brand hardware, DirecTV hardware is also going through its share of bugs and glitches.

I have a DirecTV-brand H10 HD set-top box (which has been discontinued), which still suffers unexplained system freezes with alarming regularity after several software upgrades in the past 9 months (I never had those problems with the RCA-brand boxes.)

--

Bottom line: expect trouble no matter whether you go with DirecTV or DISH Network because the technology is still relatively new and not all the bugs have been fixed yet.

[DAGSports]

Maybe that's why DirecTV finally wised up and renewed its agreement with Tivo to be the main supplier of DVR technology...

[BSjanitor]

All I know about soccer satellite HD offerings is that Dish has World Sport HD, which shows some La Liga and UEFA Cup in HD once per round. Both Dish and DirecTV have the weekly high-def MLS game on HDNet.

Okay, so Dish/DirecTV gets you ESPN2HD. Ask yourself, can you get a good OTA signal for ABCHD? Without cable, you'd have to get ABCHD over the air, unless you live in one of the few big towns where Dish/DirecTV offers ABCHD.

Do Dish/DirecTV DVRs record two channels at once?

Note also that in a few towns (in MA, VA, TX, FL) it is possible to get Verizon FiOS, which provides both ESPNHD and ESPN2HD at excellent quality and the local ABC station in HD, as well.

Maybe that's why DirecTV finally wised up and renewed its agreement with Tivo to be the main supplier of DVR technology...
and because they didn't want the risk of TiVo suing them (not that they couldn't handle that).

[Henry Porter]

I believe one of the new Dish ones can record two different channels.

[Anteaters FC]

I believe one of the new Dish ones can record two different channels.

The 622ViP.

Contrary to what Oliver said, DirecTV has not discontinued the H10 DVR, so getting DirecTV HD with DVR means you're getting a box that they've been using since 2004, with no software upgrades since then. They say that a new model will be out "later in 2006" (I don't have DirecTV HD, and everything I've read says that they've been promising this new DVR for a long time now, only it never seems to come). When the new DVR finally does show up, it'll be MPEG-4, so you'll have to get it if you want local channels (oh, and you'll have to pay an upgrade fee for the new DVR as well).

I'm a DirecTV customer now, but haven't upgraded to HD service yet. I've read a lot of negative things from current customers, and having to pay $500 to upgrade my service when I've been a loyal customer for years seems outrageous to me, when new customers are paying $100 less.

I looked on Dish's website yesterday, and the cost to get their HD setup with the HD DVR is $350. I think that I'll be switching over.

[_chachi]

Contrary to what Oliver said, DirecTV has not discontinued the H10 DVR,

i'm pretty sure he's right. directv switched to leasing HD equipment (meaning you don't own your stuff unlike the regular satellite/receiver) and currently, the only option is the h20.

[MetroMLS]

I live in CT, and I have Cablevision's HD DVR. I've called a couple of times regarding ESPNHD2, they have no clue when they'll ad it to the HD lineup. I bought my HD TV exactly two years ago, I switched from DirectTV to Cablevision 'because of the $500 upgrade lease. Right now I pay $5.00 for the HD DVR, plus $9.99 for the DVR service itself. I thought about switching back to Satellite 'cause of the World Cup, I gave them a call they offered me a $399 upgrade lease. Are they freaking kidding? Why can't they waive the fee, or make more affordable. I bet a lot more people will switch back to Satellite. I'm not sure about Dish Network, my brother has their DVR but you can't change the channel while recording. What are the lease fees for DISH?:confused:

[Anteaters FC]

i'm pretty sure he's right. directv switched to leasing HD equipment (meaning you don't own your stuff unlike the regular satellite/receiver) and currently, the only option is the h20.

The H20 is not a DVR--it's just an HD receiver. Currently, the only HD-capable DVR available from DirecTV is the H10.

[joebloe888]

The H20 is not a DVR--it's just an HD receiver. Currently, the only HD-capable DVR available from DirecTV is the H10.

The discontinued DirecTV H10 is just a set-top box, not a DVR. That box was replaced by the H20 a few months after I bought my H10 box last August.

My H10 box has been nothing but trouble, with system freezes occurring on a daily basis.

The DirecTV HD DVR (a.k.a. DirecTivo) is the HR10-250 (note the "R"), which will be technologically obsolete as soon as DirecTV switches over to MPEG4 encoding for its HD channels in 2007.

[Anteaters FC]

Sorry, didn't know it had the "R," but you got what I meant when I specified the DirecTV HD DVR.

[GutBomb]

Maybe that's why DirecTV finally wised up and renewed its agreement with Tivo to be the main supplier of DVR technology...

directv is still not making new Tivo based DVRs. they simply renewed the tivo service contract (repair and replacement) for existing users of directv with tivo devices. Directv are never coming out with a new "tivo" device.

[Mr. Bandwagon]

I was just researching this issue last weekend, since I'm in the same dilemma.

I believe one of the new Dish ones can record two different channels.

I believe that the ViP-622 only has one true HD receiver and the second receiver is SD, but capable of displaying a down-sampled-HD channel. So you could only record one HD program in HD at a time, but you can record two programs at a time. The second program will be in SD format, but could have been broadcast in HD.

It strikes me as odd that they don't have a beefed up version of the ViP-622 that can receive two HD channels simultaneously and record them both in native format. I'm close to swtching to Dish, but this could be a deal-breaker for me since HD is the only reason why I'm switching to begin with.

I looked on Dish's website yesterday, and the cost to get their HD setup with the HD DVR is $350. I think that I'll be switching over.

I think the prices for DirecTV & Dish are the same. DirecTV charges $400 straight up for HD with a DVR, plus monthly service fees. Dish on the other hand charges $50 to join, a $50 HD upgrade fee, and a $300 DVR fee...which is $400.

So: DirecTV has MPEG-2 Receiver/DVRs which means you will need to upgrade in order to receive MPEG-4 stations as they come online. Dish just came out with a Receiver/DVR that can handle both MPEG-2 & MPEG-4 signals, but it only can record one program in HD format at a time. In both cases, it looks like the customer would have to pay an upgrade fee down the line in order to switch to better equipment once it becomes available. For comparison, my cable comany, Comcast, has never charged me an equipment upgrade fee...or a start-up fee for that matter.

Plus, it looks like the $400 start-up fees for both Dish and DirecTV also require a commitment to a long-term contract. If you read the fine print on their website, I believe that Dish requires 18 months of service and DirecTV was something like 24 months. If you don't commit to the terms, or you drop your service below a certain level before the end of that period, then the start-up fees go up to the $700 or $800 range for DirecTV. Can someone confirm this? If I'm wrong, please correct me.

Anyway, I haven't pulled the trigger yet, although I'm definitely still considering it despite the obscene expense up-front. Factor in that I'd also need to re-pay the $70 for Direct Kick since I don't think Comcast will re-imburse me for that one, and it's half a grand at a minimum either way for me to get a package comparable to what I already have (which has everything I need except for soccer in HD).

I must really have footballitis to be considering doing this... :o

[GutBomb]

I was just researching this issue last weekend, since I'm in the same dilemma.



I believe that the ViP-622 only has one true HD receiver and the second receiver is SD, but capable of displaying a down-sampled-HD channel. So you could only record one HD program in HD at a time, but you can record two programs at a time. The second program will be in SD format, but could have been broadcast in HD.

It strikes me as odd that they don't have a beefed up version of the ViP-622 that can receive two HD channels simultaneously and record them both in native format. I'm close to swtching to Dish, but this could be a deal-breaker for me since HD is the only reason why I'm switching to begin with.



I think the prices for DirecTV & Dish are the same. DirecTV charges $400 straight up for HD with a DVR, plus monthly service fees. Dish on the other hand charges $50 to join, a $50 HD upgrade fee, and a $300 DVR fee...which is $400.

So: DirecTV has MPEG-2 Receiver/DVRs which means you will need to upgrade in order to receive MPEG-4 stations as they come online. Dish just came out with a Receiver/DVR that can handle both MPEG-2 & MPEG-4 signals, but it only can record one program in HD format at a time. In both cases, it looks like the customer would have to pay an upgrade fee down the line in order to switch to better equipment once it becomes available. For comparison, my cable comany, Comcast, has never charged me an equipment upgrade fee...or a start-up fee for that matter.

Plus, it looks like the $400 start-up fees for both Dish and DirecTV also require a commitment to a long-term contract. If you read the fine print on their website, I believe that Dish requires 18 months of service and DirecTV was something like 24 months. If you don't commit to the terms, or you drop your service below a certain level before the end of that period, then the start-up fees go up to the $700 or $800 range for DirecTV. Can someone confirm this? If I'm wrong, please correct me.

Anyway, I haven't pulled the trigger yet, although I'm definitely still considering it despite the obscene expense up-front. Factor in that I'd also need to re-pay the $70 for Direct Kick since I don't think Comcast will re-imburse me for that one, and it's half a grand at a minimum either way for me to get a package comparable to what I already have (which has everything I need except for soccer in HD).

I must really have footballitis to be considering doing this... :o
you'll still get about half of the world cup in HD by sticking with comcast. also, you'll lose on-demand and the ability to record 2 programs in HD at once (with dish) and you'll have to use an antenna to get your locals in HD (on directv... i dunno if dish has your market up yet in HD)

also if you watch any other sports your regional sportsnet (altitude for example here) carries games in HD. (avalanche and nuggets here)... well not on satellite. SD only there too.

this may all be pointless too because rumours are out there that comcast will be carrying ESPN2HD at least temporarily for the world cup.

and then the up front cost...

for me it's worth it to stick with cable.

[Anteaters FC]

I think the prices for DirecTV & Dish are the same. DirecTV charges $400 straight up for HD with a DVR, plus monthly service fees. Dish on the other hand charges $50 to join, a $50 HD upgrade fee, and a $300 DVR fee...which is $400.

So: DirecTV has MPEG-2 Receiver/DVRs which means you will need to upgrade in order to receive MPEG-4 stations as they come online. Dish just came out with a Receiver/DVR that can handle both MPEG-2 & MPEG-4 signals, but it only can record one program in HD format at a time. In both cases, it looks like the customer would have to pay an upgrade fee down the line in order to switch to better equipment once it becomes available. For comparison, my cable comany, Comcast, has never charged me an equipment upgrade fee...or a start-up fee for that matter.

Plus, it looks like the $400 start-up fees for both Dish and DirecTV also require a commitment to a long-term contract. If you read the fine print on their website, I believe that Dish requires 18 months of service and DirecTV was something like 24 months. If you don't commit to the terms, or you drop your service below a certain level before the end of that period, then the start-up fees go up to the $700 or $800 range for DirecTV. Can someone confirm this? If I'm wrong, please correct me.

Anyway, I haven't pulled the trigger yet, although I'm definitely still considering it despite the obscene expense up-front. Factor in that I'd also need to re-pay the $70 for Direct Kick since I don't think Comcast will re-imburse me for that one, and it's half a grand at a minimum either way for me to get a package comparable to what I already have (which has everything I need except for soccer in HD).

I must really have footballitis to be considering doing this... :o

If you commit to 18 months of Dish, you get a $50 rebate. You can choose not to commit, however.

Also, the $400 cost for DirecTV HD is only available for new customers. Continuing customers like me get to pay $500, with the 24-month commitment. Yipee.

[Mr. Bandwagon]

you'll still get about half of the world cup in HD by sticking with comcast. also, you'll lose on-demand and the ability to record 2 programs in HD at once (with dish) and you'll have to use an antenna to get your locals in HD (on directv... i dunno if dish has your market up yet in HD)

also if you watch any other sports your regional sportsnet (altitude for example here) carries games in HD. (avalanche and nuggets here)... well not on satellite. SD only there too.

this may all be pointless too because rumours are out there that comcast will be carrying ESPN2HD at least temporarily for the world cup.

and then the up front cost...

for me it's worth it to stick with cable.
Yeah, it's a tough call. Now that the Quakes moved away, I want to get HDNet so I can get the weekly broadcast - kind of a substitute for season tickets. So it's about more than just WC'06 for me. I bought a HD monitor last summer and have been waiting for the right time to get MLS in HD.

Dish does not have local channels for my area yet, but DirecTV currently has 4 for a $5 monthly fee...no PBS or independent/ethnic channels of which there are several. Hopefully an antenna would get the job done tho.

IMHO, InDemand is lacking in content, especially HD content, so I don't really care if I have to give it up.

Not having FSN-Bay Area in HD would be pretty lame indeed, but I'm not that into other sports, so it wouldn't be a complete disaster. But it counts as another downside. On the other hand, I wouldn't mind getting WorldSport or Universal HD, or some of the other second-tier HD channels, so I figure satellite, esp. Dish Network, would end up being a wash or a slight improvement overall.

Still, it's hard to justify shelling out money on a product that is inferior to what you already have in many ways. It seems a little obsessive, but then what was the point in having bought a 37" Sharp flat-panel if I'm only going to end up watching US v. Czech Republic June 12th in SD? Ain't gonna happen if I have anything to say about it. ;)

[Neutral Fan]

[QUOTE=Mr. Bandwagon]I was just researching this issue last weekend, since I'm in the same dilemma.

I believe that the ViP-622 only has one true HD receiver and the second receiver is SD, but capable of displaying a down-sampled-HD channel. So you could only record one HD program in HD at a time, but you can record two programs at a time. The second program will be in SD format, but could have been broadcast in HD.

Hi everyone. Since I might be the source :D of the misinformation about the Dish Network Vip622 HD DVR I will try to clean up the misinformation. The 622 has three HD tuners; two for satellite reception and one for over the air broadcasts (An over the air broadcast would be the traditional TV you get with a antenna on the back of you TV.) You can record two HD programs at the same time. What you cannot do is record two over the air broadcasts at the same time. (Example: You could not record a World Cup game on ABC at the same time record the NASCAR race on Fox at the same time. Although you could record the MLS game on HD Net and a rebroadcast of a Spanish League game on World Sport at the same time.)

Aaron

[Mr. Bandwagon]

Hi everyone. Since I might be the source :D of the misinformation about the Dish Network Vip622 HD DVR I will try to clean up the misinformation. The 622 has three HD tuners; two for satellite reception and one for over the air broadcasts (An over the air broadcast would be the traditional TV you get with a antenna on the back of you TV.) You can record two HD programs at the same time. What you cannot do is record two over the air broadcasts at the same time. (Example: You could not record a World Cup game on ABC at the same time record the NASCAR race on Fox at the same time. Although you could record the MLS game on HD Net and a rebroadcast of a Spanish League game on World Sport at the same time.)

Aaron

Right, but only one of the two satellite receivers is a true HD receiver, the second can only display or record NTSC (SD) using the 480i format, correct? Or is that not the case?

[Neutral Fan]

Hi Mr Bandwagon :) The Vip622 can be use to control two TVs in two different rooms. If you use the 622 this way it only can provide a HD feed for only one TV. The other TV will get a SD feed. Even if you use the 622 this way you can still record two HD programs at the same time. You can only watch them in HD on one TV. On the other TV the feed will be down converted to SD. Here is a link with more information: http://www.dbstalk.com/specsheets/RecordingPref_for_DualTunerReceivers3.pdf

Aaron

[Mr. Bandwagon]

Ah, that makes much more sense! Hmmm, Dish is looking a little better now. :D