Mooch in the house and Lord were the offenses offensive [R]

[ursula]

Assistant coach Mooch Myernick attended the NE @ KC game and no way could he have left there optimistic about guys he and Arena are considering for Germany. Let's recap the carnage shall we?

Twellman... and Conrad

TT has picked a very very bad time to go on a goal scoring drought. What is it? The last three MLS games, The two CCC games, the MLS cup game.. how much further should we look? What's the problem?

Last night's game exposed the problems nicely. TT depends on early balls into the box and for most of the game the Revs just weren't up for it. However he did get a couple of decent feeds but this is where Conrad comes in. Jimmy was man marking TT and did a beautiful job when needed and TT really had no chance, regardless of what the homer revs announcers thought.

The big difference between TT and Mcbride is that Mcbride can be a useful target player even if he's 20, 30 40 yards away from goal. When he's that far out, Brian can control the ball and other offensive players can then run off him. TT doesn't possess that skill as he's basically a very good poacher. He's probably better than Mcbride in that regard and with better service than what the Revs are giving him, he'd probably score some. But still he's barely more than one dimensional and thus no real understudy to Mcbride. Really no one is and that includes Kenny Cooper.

A final word on Conrad: A very good first game back. The only way he probably makes the germany team is from injuries but if he did I think Arena would prepare him better then he did in the Germany friendly and simplify his assignment- and he'd do a good job too.

Clint Dempsey

Clint was the only bright spot offensively of the guys under Nats consideration. Too bad he has to dribble so much with the revs but even there he keeps improving. His flash now has a purpose that it didn't have last year.

Josh Wolff... and Davy Arnaud

His missed PK is making it look like he's almost defying Arena to pick him even if he can't hit the broad side of the proverbial... brothel. He's always been good at diving (a good trait) but I wish he had Davy Arnaud's work rate. Since both are similar players it does bother me that Davy is consistently outplaying Josh right now.

Eddie Johnson

Nutmeg, before the Germany friendly, wished GAM would shut his critics up. Well he certainly didn't do that in this game. NE has a well organized defense but Johnson sure will be seeing better in Germany. Unlike TT or Dempsey, Johnson does have some very active mids and forwards who are dying to link up with him but it's just not flowing. In fact you could say that KC's offense dies with Johnson. Not good.

Noonan and Ralston

Ralston was out with that hamstring pull which really makes me think that Arena won't take him eve if he's okay by May. But the Revs sure miss those early crosses to TT. Well maybe not because it's not like TT is scoring even if Ralston is in either.

Which leads us to Noonan who some (including me) have wondered if Noonan might get that last mid spot over Ralston. Not if this game had any indication! Rookie Matt Groenwald shut him down for all but one play in the 1st half- then Nicol sat Pat's ass down. Noonan just looks slow on the Revs these days. the best thing you could say is that he looked better playing for Arena.


Just a poor game from most of the Nats hopefuls yesterday.

[sidefootsitter]

Davy Arnaud plays a lot like Brian Mullan, balls to the wall for 90 min ... and boy, does the dude get stuck in or what...

I believe Davy's a free agent after this year. It'd be interesting to see if he attracts any attention from a lower tier Euro league because I think he can develop into a National quality player due to his speed, athleticism and a high work rate.

He may not be a forward at that level but a decent enough 2-way mid, who would stick to his marker like glue.

[appoo]

Twellman... and Conrad

TT has picked a very very bad time to go on a goal scoring drought. What is it? The last three MLS games, The two CCC games, the MLS cup game.. how much further should we look? What's the problem?

Last night's game exposed the problems nicely. TT depends on early balls into the box and for most of the game the Revs just weren't up for it. However he did get a couple of decent feeds but this is where Conrad comes in. Jimmy was man marking TT and did a beautiful job when needed and TT really had no chance, regardless of what the homer revs announcers thought.

Clint Dempsey

Clint was the only bright spot offensively of the guys under Nats consideration. Too bad he has to dribble so much with the revs but even there he keeps improving. His flash now has a purpose that it didn't have last year.

Eddie Johnson

Nutmeg, before the Germany friendly, wished GAM would shut his critics up. Well he certainly didn't do that in this game. NE has a well organized defense but Johnson sure will be seeing better in Germany. Unlike TT or Dempsey, Johnson does have some very active mids and forwards who are dying to link up with him but it's just not flowing. In fact you could say that KC's offense dies with Johnson. Not good.

I have never believed Twellman to be a quality International forward. He's almost useless without service and doesn't provide anything else but finishing. He doesn't hold up play, he doesn't win headers in the midfield. What does he do?

Skip - you're killing me about Dempsey. Let me ask you something. Demsey plays attacking midfielder right. How many chances did he create for his team? I can't recall even one. literally. Is that in ANY way acceptable for aplayer who main function is creating chances for others first and himself second? He could go dribble 500 people on a sinlge play if he wants to but in means ******** all if he can't create a chance at goal. IMHO all he's doing since the Poland match is moving himself to the end of the bench. He's a street baller.

Let me ask DC United fans something. For one season, you're offered Dempsey straight up for Adu. And then they go back to thier regular teams next year. Would you take that trade? You'd be insane to do so. DC United have scored 6 goals this season, and Adu has been a factor in 4 of them, earning 3 assists (secondary assits and creating the FK which drew the 4th goal. I'd rather have Adu out there at this point as a late game sub to be perfectly honest.) and I can;t even remember how many other chances to score. They both play the same position to. Attacking mid.

[Bob Morocco]

I have never believed Twellman to be a quality International forward. He's almost useless without service and doesn't provide anything else but finishing. He doesn't hold up play, he doesn't win headers in the midfield. What does he do?

Skip - you're killing me about Dempsey. Let me ask you something. Demsey plays attacking midfielder right. How many chances did he create for his team? I can't recall even one. literally. Is that in ANY way acceptable for aplayer who main function is creating chances for others first and himself second? He could go dribble 500 people on a sinlge play if he wants to but in means ******** all if he can't create a chance at goal. IMHO all he's doing since the Poland match is moving himself to the end of the bench. He's a street baller.

Let me ask DC United fans something. For one season, you're offered Dempsey straight up for Adu. And then they go back to thier regular teams next year. Would you take that trade? You'd be insane to do so. DC United have scored 6 goals this season, and Adu has been a factor in 4 of them, earning 3 assists (secondary assits and creating the FK which drew the 4th goal. I'd rather have Adu out there at this point as a late game sub to be perfectly honest.) and I can;t even remember how many other chances to score. They both play the same position to. Attacking mid.

He chipped a through ball into the box in a style similar to Ronaldinho, aka from a stand still at the top of the box, and sent Leonard down the wing for an open cross with a backheel and had a decent shot from long range that was saved. The Revs sucked as a whole but it wasn't because of Clint.

[ursula]

Skip - you're killing me about Dempsey. Let me ask you something. Dempsey plays attacking midfielder right. How many chances did he create for his team? I can't recall even one. literally. Is that in ANY way acceptable for a player who main function is creating chances for others first and himself second? He could go dribble 500 people on a sinlge play if he wants to but in means ******** all if he can't create a chance at goal. IMHO all he's doing since the Poland match is moving himself to the end of the bench. He's a street baller.

Let me ask DC United fans something. For one season, you're offered Dempsey straight up for Adu. And then they go back to thier regular teams next year. Would you take that trade? You'd be insane to do so. DC United have scored 6 goals this season, and Adu has been a factor in 4 of them, earning 3 assists (secondary assits and creating the FK which drew the 4th goal. I'd rather have Adu out there at this point as a late game sub to be perfectly honest.) and I can;t even remember how many other chances to score. They both play the same position to. Attacking mid.

Hmmm. Here's my take on Dempsey this year. One problem I have in evaluating him is that he plays on the Revs and the problem with that is that Steve Nicol, a good coach overall, does not reward creativity well. He's very good with a bread and butter approach to the game and to his credit he gets playewrs who fit the roles he envisions usually. But the problem is that the opposition can then effectively plan against them. (Realize that not all opposing coaches can do this as they don't have the competency.)

Gansler's one such coach. He came into this year knowing that the MLS east has really loaded up on 352 formations, clogging the midfield, following Nowak's success from 2004. So he realized that he needed to have a faster offense in order to control the game. One that can counter quickly and interchange quickly. This we saw yesterday as KC controlled the midfield on NE quite effectively. Now Gansler isn't the only East coach to reorder his formation this year. So have Nicol and Nowak. But here's the big difference: Both Nowak and Gansler either have the players to change formations effectively (Nowak) or got new players to fit the new style (Gansler).

Nicol didn't change personnel and it shows. NE is slow and obvious on offense this year. Ponderous even. They are stymied by quicker, more creative players who can interchange freely. Nicol's players- outside of Dempsey and Cancela and maybe Joseph are pretty much role players who are challenged at seeing (from yesterday) Arnaud and Wolff and Jewsbury and Victorine and Groenwald buzzing about the park. It's never gonna be easy to beat a Nicol team, but yesterday showed which team has the inspiration this year.

Back to Dempsey. His teammates can't get open and he's then reduced to over dribbling. When he doesn't have the ball he's active, trying to get open. Usually his teammates don't have the skill to pass the ball effectively to him. Often times they miss him completely or they put the ball on his wrong side. The play bogs down. Again and again. I do think his dribbling has more purpose to it then last year and my guess if you put him on a team that can pass the ball better then NE he'll respond positively. I remember a comment that Arena made of Convey lately, that Convey is more aware of his team now. I think Clint is growing in that direction too but that he needs better teammates to make that obvious. And as you can guess I think that team awareness thing is not something that many young players in the league have. It's a big problem in Chicago for instance. But again, I think Clint is starting to get it.


Dempsey or Adu? The way it's going the player who is on DCU this year will have the better offensive stats, even taking away the WC lost by Clint. Clint would absolutely adore playing alongside Moreno and Gomez and they would demand and get him to pass the ball more. He would score more than Freddy will. But Freddy is still growing as a player and as the year goes along he will get better and better. Late in yesterday's game freddy took a shot- a close miss- when he had Christian Gomez wide open. Gomez made sure that Freddy was totally aware that he wasn't pleased. Who on NE will do that with Clint? Freddy will be a force by playoff time. So as a DCU fan, either player would be a win-win situation.

[The Big Ticket]

Davy Arnaud plays a lot like Brian Mullan, balls to the wall for 90 min ... and boy, does the dude get stuck in or what...

I believe Davy's a free agent after this year. It'd be interesting to see if he attracts any attention from a lower tier Euro league because I think he can develop into a National quality player due to his speed, athleticism and a high work rate.

He may not be a forward at that level but a decent enough 2-way mid, who would stick to his marker like glue.
Besides work rate, what impresses me about Arnaud is his size and strength. There's a number of fast American players who have a similar skill set, but most of them are so light that the wind could knock them over. The only way to knock Arnaud down is to foul him. And he does get fouled, a lot - more than any American player in MLS for two seasons in a row.

[Geneva]

Besides work rate, what impresses me about Arnaud is his size and strength. There's a number of fast American players who have a similar skill set, but most of them are so light that the wind could knock them over. The only way to knock Arnaud down is to foul him. And he does get fouled, a lot - more than any American player in MLS for two seasons in a row.
Too bad he had his sophomore slump last year.

[appoo]

Dempsey or Adu? The way it's going the player who is on DCU this year will have the better offensive stats, even taking away the WC lost by Clint. Clint would absolutely adore playing alongside Moreno and Gomez and they would demand and get him to pass the ball more. He would score more than Freddy will. But Freddy is still growing as a player and as the year goes along he will get better and better. Late in yesterday's game freddy took a shot- a close miss- when he had Christian Gomez wide open. Gomez made sure that Freddy was totally aware that he wasn't pleased. Who on NE will do that with Clint? Freddy will be a force by playoff time. So as a DCU fan, either player would be a win-win situation.
this here is my problem. if Dempsey is going to start for USA, he needs to be better than a 16 year old kid, no matter how talented he is.

EDIT-

and I think Freddy is literally a better attacking player right now. He creates more offense for those around him. and is that the essence of an AMid?

[aueagle1]

Hmmm. Here's my take on Dempsey this year. One problem I have in evaluating him is that he plays on the Revs and the problem with that is that Steve Nicol, a good coach overall, does not reward creativity well. He's very good with a bread and butter approach to the game and to his credit he gets playewrs who fit the roles he envisions usually. But the problem is that the opposition can then effectively plan against them. (Realize that not all opposing coaches can do this as they don't have the competency.)

Gansler's one such coach. He came into this year knowing that the MLS east has really loaded up on 352 formations, clogging the midfield, following Nowak's success from 2004. So he realized that he needed to have a faster offense in order to control the game. One that can counter quickly and interchange quickly. This we saw yesterday as KC controlled the midfield on NE quite effectively. Now Gansler isn't the only East coach to reorder his formation this year. So have Nicol and Nowak. But here's the big difference: Both Nowak and Gansler either have the players to change formations effectively (Nowak) or got new players to fit the new style (Gansler).


I just wanted this posted again because it is exactly what I have noticed so far this season. The teams that have won games this year are the ones that are playing more quickly because they creating more scoring opportunites by getting early crosses in or creating situations where the other team has to foul them. Dribbling itself is not moving the ball quickly enough and with five many midfields and two defensive midfielders for many teams it is just a trap. New England isn't moving the ball quickly enough, and neither were the Galaxy. I don't know if that will last all season, but it is positive for teams to be rewarded for playing creatively. It is also something that national team players need to be aware of. Holding the ball or using too many touches in international games will not work. One or two touches is all you get, usually, in order to create an opportunity.

[the stranger]

New England has played all three games on the road thus far, and are really only sending three players forward (contrast that to DCU which has played three home games). Look for them to open things up more when they play at Gillette.

[sidefootsitter]

Too bad he had his sophomore slump last year. He really didn't ... Davy was playing forward the previous year (10 goals in 2,004) but with Scott Sealy opening the 2,005 season very strongly, Bob G. moved Arnaud to left midfield in a sort of a 4-4-2 Wide Y, so Davy was playing much further from the goal and his offensive stats thus fell.

[RevsRule]

Hmmm. Here's my take on Dempsey this year. One problem I have in evaluating him is that he plays on the Revs and the problem with that is that Steve Nicol, a good coach overall, does not reward creativity well. He's very good with a bread and butter approach to the game and to his credit he gets playewrs who fit the roles he envisions usually. But the problem is that the opposition can then effectively plan against them. (Realize that not all opposing coaches can do this as they don't have the competency.)

Gansler's one such coach. He came into this year knowing that the MLS east has really loaded up on 352 formations, clogging the midfield, following Nowak's success from 2004. So he realized that he needed to have a faster offense in order to control the game. One that can counter quickly and interchange quickly. This we saw yesterday as KC controlled the midfield on NE quite effectively. Now Gansler isn't the only East coach to reorder his formation this year. So have Nicol and Nowak. But here's the big difference: Both Nowak and Gansler either have the players to change formations effectively (Nowak) or got new players to fit the new style (Gansler).

Nicol didn't change personnel and it shows. NE is slow and obvious on offense this year. Ponderous even. They are stymied by quicker, more creative players who can interchange freely. Nicol's players- outside of Dempsey and Cancela and maybe Joseph are pretty much role players who are challenged at seeing (from yesterday) Arnaud and Wolff and Jewsbury and Victorine and Groenwald buzzing about the park. It's never gonna be easy to beat a Nicol team, but yesterday showed which team has the inspiration this year.

Back to Dempsey. His teammates can't get open and he's then reduced to over dribbling. When he doesn't have the ball he's active, trying to get open. Usually his teammates don't have the skill to pass the ball effectively to him. Often times they miss him completely or they put the ball on his wrong side. The play bogs down. Again and again. I do think his dribbling has more purpose to it then last year and my guess if you put him on a team that can pass the ball better then NE he'll respond positively. I remember a comment that Arena made of Convey lately, that Convey is more aware of his team now. I think Clint is growing in that direction too but that he needs better teammates to make that obvious. And as you can guess I think that team awareness thing is not something that many young players in the league have. It's a big problem in Chicago for instance. But again, I think Clint is starting to get it.


Dempsey or Adu? The way it's going the player who is on DCU this year will have the better offensive stats, even taking away the WC lost by Clint. Clint would absolutely adore playing alongside Moreno and Gomez and they would demand and get him to pass the ball more. He would score more than Freddy will. But Freddy is still growing as a player and as the year goes along he will get better and better. Late in yesterday's game freddy took a shot- a close miss- when he had Christian Gomez wide open. Gomez made sure that Freddy was totally aware that he wasn't pleased. Who on NE will do that with Clint? Freddy will be a force by playoff time. So as a DCU fan, either player would be a win-win situation.

There's much more going on then your analysis reveals. I agree on the SN part. He likes muckers more then flashy players but I think you have the Dempsey thing all wrong and the Revs lack of success this year is more because of boneheaded lineups then anything else. Once SN starts playing people where they belong and sits down others that should not be starting, the Revs and the the WC possibles will start to shine again.

He simply isn't an attacking mid and no matter how much SN tries to use him in that role, it just doesn't fit. He dribbles too much these days becau e he now believes that this is his role and it's killing the Revs offense. SN is stuborn and slow to change anything. Until he sits Hernandez and moves Dempsey back to defensive Mid, the Revs will suffer and guys like TT will not see the ball. Dempsey's teammates are fine and he's not any better then they are though I think he thinks he's outgrown them.

While the Rev WC hopefuls did not help their cause, neither did the Wiz players. I thought Wolff did nothing but dive well and EJ was totally shut down and in the end, yanked from the field.

I doubt you'd find anyone in NE that would take Adu for Dempsey.

[dcc134]

this here is my problem. if Dempsey is going to start for USA, he needs to be better than a 16 year old kid, no matter how talented he is.

EDIT-

and I think Freddy is literally a better attacking player right now. He creates more offense for those around him. and is that the essence of an AMid?


Yeah, but Dempsey is going to play on the right for the Nats, a position he is certainly more effective than Adu.

[appoo]

Yeah, but Dempsey is going to play on the right for the Nats, a position he is certainly more effective than Adu.


I would suggest that the true wing play will come from the fullbacks, and that the front attacking 3 will be attacking midfielders. Meaning that crossing is one o fthe lesser dutes they have. They'll be cutting in and out of the middle, and providing through balls to the forwards will mixing with our central midfielders.

[Autogolazo]

I would suggest that the true wing play will come from the fullbacks, and that the front attacking 3 will be attacking midfielders. Meaning that crossing is one o fthe lesser dutes they have. They'll be cutting in and out of the middle, and providing through balls to the forwards will mixing with our central midfielders.

Totally agreed. My lineup of choice:

----------McBride----------
Beasley--Donovan----Dempsey
----------Reyna------------
----------Mastro------------
Lewis---Gibbs-Gooch---Dolo
-----------Keller-----------

[ayers]

Yeah, but Dempsey is going to play on the right for the Nats, a position he is certainly more effective than Adu.

Even if he's more effective than Adu, if he keeps dribbling non-stop, he'd kill more chances than he creates them.

Whoever plays in the midfield needs to be able to play with Donovan, even if Donovan plays at forward. Donovan is at his best when he can do quick, simple, and effective combination plays with his teammates. Beasley can do it. Convey can do it. Reyna can when he's asked to. Dempsey will have to learn to play fast if he wants to work well with the rest of the offense. Besides, I don't think Italian defenders are going to give him all day to dribble. Look at how Kaka was hacked down 20 times a game in his first few months in Italy. He's certainly a better dribbler than Dempsey. Yet that didn't work to his favor until he learned to pick his spot.

[dcc134]

Even if he's more effective than Adu, if he keeps dribbling non-stop, he'd kill more chances than he creates them.

NO doubt Bruce will put an end to that pretty quickly.

The question being possed is who would be the more effective right sided player at the WC, Dempsey or Adu. Quite clearly, IMO, its Dempsey, regardless of what the 2 of them do playing different positions for their clubs.

[appoo]

NO doubt Bruce will put an end to that pretty quickly.

The question being possed is who would be the more effective right sided player at the WC, Dempsey or Adu. Quite clearly, IMO, its Dempsey, regardless of what the 2 of them do playing different positions for their clubs.


I agree, Dempsey would be the better right winger. I'm not at all certain he'd be the better right side attacking midfielder though.

and for all of Demps' dribbling ability, he struggled to beat the Polish defenders 1v1 FWIW.

[Dr Jay]

Back to Dempsey. His teammates can't get open and he's then reduced to over dribbling.


I agree with your post, except for the implication from these two sentences. Dempsey overdribbles....period. It doesn't matter if his teammates are open or not, passing is not his game. He has a problem playing simple regardless of the tactical situation.

Its a bit of a chicken/egg argument but you are wrong to imply that Dempsey only dribbles so much because his teammates aren't available.

The rest of the Adu v Dempsey debate really has no bearing on the WC '06. Dempsey is almost certainly going to be on the roster and Adu almost certainly is not (barring several injuries). If Dempsey is not a central midfielder for the US and I doubt he ever will develop into one. Adu may well be our attacking mid in '10.

[appoo]

The rest of the Adu v Dempsey debate really has no bearing on the WC '06. Dempsey is almost certainly going to be on the roster and Adu almost certainly is not (barring several injuries). If Dempsey is not a central midfielder for the US and I doubt he ever will develop into one. Adu may well be our attacking mid in '10.


Sorry, I'm the one who brought Adu into this. Let me explain - I wasn't trying ot say Adu should be on the roster. My concern is that many want Dempsey to start for USA in the World Cup. My reason for comparing him to Freddy is one shouldn't have to argue if he's better than Adu is he's going to start for us in an attacking position. I don't think anyone would even try argueing that Adu is more more effective than Beas, Donovan, or Convey at this point. I would also believe DC fans would take those 3 players in a heart beat for just this season in a swap for Adu. Yet I don't think the same would be true of Dempsey.