To referees who are also players...

[smithxi]

do you keep your referee equipment in the same bag as your playing equipment, or do you find it more convenient to use two separate bags, and why?

[raleighsocref]

I use 2 seperate bags. Mostly because I don't want my ref gear nestled in with my nasty shinguards and even more so because I don't wash my other gear as much as I wash my ref gear.

When I go to tournaments I like to have the nice bag that I keep my ref gear in. My other soccer back is really just one of those sacks that go on your back. There is not enough room in it.

[smithxi]

and do you ever find yourself playing after you ref?

[USSF REF]

I keep 3 bags. One has all my GK gear and shirts, and shorts in it.

The other 2 have my USSF or NISOA(NCAA) and HS refereeing gear.

This is the best way to keep all my stuff organized so that I know when I'm going to a game I just pull out what it is that I need, instead of bringing a whole locker room with me.

As a keeper, I would be OK with refereeing after I play, but not the other way around. Going into the net fatigued will hurt your team's chances more than you know. Whereas, going to referee after goalkeeping doesn't really leave you too fatigued at all and so I'm still good on the aerobic fitness end to give the players a good job.

[sandaroo]

At the beginning I only had one bag, but then again I only had a gold ref shirt. Now I have every color, short and long sleeved versions, so I don't exactly have room to carry it all in one bag.

Be careful refereeing after playing...even if you don't feel physically spent, your mental sharpness may be down.

I don't do both on the same day. I'd be worried about making ref commitments then getting injured in an earlier game. I play Tues evenings, rest my ankles/heal the bruises through the week, and then spend the weekend as the ref.

Now I have a question for the current players/refs out there: are you a polite player or a pain the rear to the refs for your games?

[raleighsocref]

I keep 3 bags. One has all my GK gear and shirts, and shorts in it.

The other 2 have my USSF or NISOA(NCAA) and HS refereeing gear.

This is the best way to keep all my stuff organized so that I know when I'm going to a game I just pull out what it is that I need, instead of bringing a whole locker room with me.

As a keeper, I would be OK with refereeing after I play, but not the other way around. Going into the net fatigued will hurt your team's chances more than you know. Whereas, going to referee after goalkeeping doesn't really leave you too fatigued at all and so I'm still good on the aerobic fitness end to give the players a good job.

Good point on the 3rd bag for NISOA. I have been contemplating the 3rd bag now for a while to haul all of my NISOA stuff in it. That way I am not spending a bunch of time the night before seperating out what I need.

I try not to play on the days that I ref. It is becoming less of a problem these days as I have focused more and more on reffing. My playing has become limited to a co ed league that my wife and I play in together for some fun.

Once I started reffing I definitely became a more "polite" player. There are exceptions. I have no tolerance for laziness. The only red card I have gotten since college came in a co ed game. Retaliation foul for one committed on my wife where there was no whistle.

[smithxi]

I believe that proper eating allows me to obtain enough energry to referee and play a soccer match. As for the bags, I am going to use three. The first is my big bag, anything and everything can go in it, referee stuff, shirts, shoes, water, food, and any other equipment I may need as a player or a referee. The second is my referee bag. It keeps everything I will need on the field as a referee. This bag is small, therefor making it easy for me to transport, which in turn makes it easy to repack washed gear, and then take it back to my big bag and exchange it for items I will be needing at my next match as a referee. The third bag works exactly the same as the second. It's a bag that goes back to the first for updating gear and any other items such as shoes, food, water, shorts, or socks. I am confident this system will work well. I have been considering investing in a shirt bag to keep my shirts nicely folded. Can anyone give me a link as to where I can buy one?

[GKbenji]

I have been considering investing in a shirt bag to keep my shirts nicely folded. Can anyone give me a link as to where I can buy one?

I use Eagle Creek Pack-It Folders (http://www.eaglecreek.com/40153.html) for my shirts. I even have them in yellow, red, black and blue (although the web site no longer shows the yellow) which makes it very easy to find the color I'm looking for in my bag.

Oh, and my playing and reffing bags are definitely separate. Too much gear to fit in one bag.

[nsa]

Separate bags for playing gear and ref'ing gear.

That way, if the ref doesn't show up when I'm playing, I'm not an easy target as the fill-in. ;)

Also, as others have mentioned, eight shirts, etc. is a lot of gear to lug around needlessly just to get them contaminated with smelly shinguards and filthy boots.

... and do you ever find yourself playing after you ref?I frequently ref after playing, but not the other way around.

[nsa]

Now I have a question for the current players/refs out there: are you a polite player or a pain the rear to the refs for your games?
Player and referee - dr. jekyll and mr. hyde :eek:

nsa, the player, would likely be the first person sent off by nsa, the referee. ;)

More importantly, knowing the "code" I knew just how far to push things with refs to avoid colours (or else they really felt sorry for me :) ).

[USSF REF]

I am ALWAYS kind to the referee in soccer, even when I think they are making terrible judgement calls. I won't ever question them (at least so that they can hear me, nor anyone else). That isn't right and it's not ethical.

However, I do not have a tollerance for referee's who misapply the laws of the game. I got one of my only Yellow Cards for dissent. I was going to punt the ball away uncontested and the Referee thought it would be a great idea to call me for "ending up with my foot over the line" after I punted the ball. (As a player this sort of call really annoys you, especially with no previous warning, who did I harm?) Well I assumed he called handling... but that drew my skepticism anyway -- then he raised his arm to give an IFK which is just plain wrong.

I loudly questioned the referee: "shouldn't that be a direct free kick, sir?"

He replied "No, it's an indirect when the GK handles the ball outside the penalty area". Of course we all know this is false. So I pressed him on it and eventually said "He's making the wrong call!" Which drew the caution, and I knew why he booked me, but I got pretty mad at that moment in time. After all why would I attempt to upgrade the severity of the free kick in our opponents favor?

After the game, the referee came over to me and told me that I was right and he was glad they didn't score a goal because of it... So I asked him if he could wipe the yellow card off the record, of course the answer is no -- but I thought I could try.

I suppose the fact that the referee tried to restart the game with a bogus restart is what really pushed me over the edge.

[sandaroo]

It is my every intention to be a kind and respectful player to the referees, but you know how good intentions are sometimes. It's just that my over 30 woman's rec league doesn't draw on the most qualified guys to whistle a game. And of course I'm a forward so I know that I'm never offside...:D

[NHRef]

As a coach, I rarely say anything, to either my players or the ref. After being on the whistle with coaches who constantly are "directing traffic" for their players, I know how annoying that is to the players. I also have a new found sympathy to the refs who just see things different to me.

When I do say something to the ref, always about a miss-use of rules and I usually try to word it as a question, couple of examples lately:

- Play stopped for an injury to my team. Score was 4-2 us against the only undefeated team in the league. Restarted with a free kick which ended in a goal. I 'asked' the ref why the restart was a kick, his response was that they had the ball when he stopped play so they get the kick. I just asked if he was "sure", he said, yes, I politely said, "You're wrong, you NEVER restart with a kick when you stop for an injury". After the game he continued to argue his point, I simply told him I disagree and would like him to find a more senior ref he trusts and double check. He gave me the "what a jerk" look and left.

- Called my son, who is also a ref, while playing keeper for taking a ball sent in by the other team, dribbled into the PA and picked it up.

- completely 100% unintentional ball-arm contact on a deflection. Ref agreed is was 100% unintentional called it because it fell to my players feet giving him an advantage.

I never question decisions, just miss-applications of the LOTG

[Chubbywubby]

- Play stopped for an injury to my team. Score was 4-2 us against the only undefeated team in the league. Restarted with a free kick which ended in a goal. I 'asked' the ref why the restart was a kick, his response was that they had the ball when he stopped play so they get the kick. I just asked if he was "sure", he said, yes, I politely said, "You're wrong, you NEVER restart with a kick when you stop for an injury". After the game he continued to argue his point, I simply told him I disagree and would like him to find a more senior ref he trusts and double check. He gave me the "what a jerk" look and left.
Maybe a high school ref who forgot where he was.

- Called my son, who is also a ref, while playing keeper for taking a ball sent in by the other team, dribbled into the PA and picked it up.
I've had U-18 players tell me "He can't do that!" :rolleyes:

- completely 100% unintentional ball-arm contact on a deflection. Ref agreed is was 100% unintentional called it because it fell to my players feet giving him an advantage.
Worst of all, I've heard instructors say to call this. :eek:

[USSF REF]

Quote:
- Called my son, who is also a ref, while playing keeper for taking a ball sent in by the other team, dribbled into the PA and picked it up.

I've had U-18 players tell me "He can't do that!"

I had a debate with another referee about this at the Jefferson Cup. Apparently she thought that the GK changed thier "onfield status" to a defender upon the act of dribbling outside the Penalty Area... So that if the keeper dribbled the ball outside the area (without having picked it up) and returned to the area (let's say as a stalling tactic to draw the other teams attackers to give better numbers for a punt) that the GK COULD NOT pick the ball up becuase it was the same as a PASSBACK!

She still didn't believe me after I had 5 other refs agree with me that this action is permissable. A keeper can do this!!! :mad:

Sometimes, I wonder who is teaching our referees OR where some referee's come up with this stuff!

[Wreave]

I had a debate with another referee about this at the Jefferson Cup. Apparently she thought that the GK changed thier "onfield status" to a defender upon the act of dribbling outside the Penalty Area... So that if the keeper dribbled the ball outside the area (without having picked it up) and returned to the area (let's say as a stalling tactic to draw the other teams attackers to give better numbers for a punt) that the GK COULD NOT pick the ball up becuase it was the same as a PASSBACK!

She still didn't believe me after I had 5 other refs agree with me that this action is permissable. A keeper can do this!!! :mad:

Sometimes, I wonder who is teaching our referees OR where some referee's come up with this stuff!

That is definitely the strangest explanation for calling this non-foul that I have ever heard. The funny thing is that it makes sense. It's grossly wrong, but it makes sense.

You ought to send that one to Jim Allen to see if smoke comes out his ears.

[tmaker]

I had a debate with another referee about this at the Jefferson Cup. Apparently she thought that the GK changed thier "onfield status" to a defender upon the act of dribbling outside the Penalty Area... So that if the keeper dribbled the ball outside the area (without having picked it up) and returned to the area (let's say as a stalling tactic to draw the other teams attackers to give better numbers for a punt) that the GK COULD NOT pick the ball up becuase it was the same as a PASSBACK!

She still didn't believe me after I had 5 other refs agree with me that this action is permissable. A keeper can do this!!! :mad:

Sometimes, I wonder who is teaching our referees OR where some referees come up with this stuff!
My best guess here is that it is the influence of US Indoor Soccer, and numerous players who play both confusing the rules--not unlike many refs confusing NFHS or NCAA and FIFA rules.

As a coach, the only thing I ever say to a ref is "SUB!" I hate coaches who try to yell a constant barrage of instructions to a BU13 team, as if 1) they could hear it all; 2) it mattered a whit. In twenty years of playing soccer, I've never once had a coach as loudmouthed as the current crop I hear every week.

As a player, NEVER mix my ref gear and my keeper's gear. Partly for the reason NSA mentions and partly because I smell a lot worse as a player than a ref (even though my calls don't stink as much), but mostly because it's an aspect of mental preparation. The bag I grab is the costume I wear is the role I play. Theater training, I suppose. And I am never obnoxious to a ref, unless it's one who clearly forgets the LOTG, and misapplies them. Besides, I'm too busy yelling at my own team when I play.

I never play after I ref, and wouldn't consider it. I have never reffed after playing, but that's because I tend to play late at night, and haven't had a day game in three years. I might consider it, but someone would have to pay cash at the field ;)

[aevange8]

I am ALWAYS kind to the referee in soccer, even when I think they are making terrible judgement calls.


You must not be human.

Since i became a ref I generally try to see where they are coming from, but I will lose it and let them have it if they are bad and make poor choices.

I tend to be a bit of a dissenter. This is probably a factor as to why I let players get away with too much sometimes...i know where they are coming from.

[USSF REF]

You must not be human.

Since i became a ref I generally try to see where they are coming from, but I will lose it and let them have it if they are bad and make poor choices.

I tend to be a bit of a dissenter. This is probably a factor as to why I let players get away with too much sometimes...i know where they are coming from.

Who are you to question my HUMANITY :mad:

:p

[gildarkevin]

I tend to keep my gear in different bags simply because there's so much of each. When I play, I've got a couple pairs of shoes, a ball, an extra set of shinguards and socks for someone who forgets them, etc. And as a ref, I've got no less than 8 jerseys, a couple sets of flags, and all the accessories required -- plus different shoes for reffing than playing.

I also tend not to ref and play the same day. I'm virtually certain I've never reffed before playing and I think I can count on one hand the number of times I've played and then reffed. Usually, after going 90 in a men's league game, I'm tired enough that I don't think I'd be giving a good effort in the center. I think the only occasions in which I've done both I: (a) had a good break between (b) was AR'ing and (c) had good reason (one was when I was asked to AR the USASA cup semifinal in my state -- which I took as an honor; the other was a chance to get an AR assessment in). I freely admit this has probably slowed my progression as a ref, given that I play on Sundays and most top men's leagues in the DC area play that day as well.

As far as my treatment of refs while playing....well, let's just say that no one is immune to the heat of battle. Actually, I'm generally the one explaining to my teammates at halftime why a certain call was right or imploring them to "let it go" when they're harrassing a ref. In general, I don't question discretionary calls. But, I will say that my experience as a referee has given me absolutely NO tolerance for refs that simply show up and go through the motions. I've gotten my share of cards for dissent and here's 3 I remember vividly:

1. Telling a ref I wasn't surprised that he blew a call given that he showed up with a 2003 badge (it was 2005).
2. Pointing out that I started questioning a ref's decisions when I saw him show up wearing white ankle socks.
3. Imploring a ref, after he told me not to argue with a PK call, to "at least do the procedurally correct thing and consult with his AR as to whether an admitted foul was in the area, since he was at midfield when he blew the whistle".

And yeah, they weren't casual comments either...