The Infamous Pregame

[jacathcart]

An overview of the posts here on a wide variety of topics often recommend that various issues be "discussed at the pregame". I have been refereeing for a number of years - grade 8 - and my knees won't handle top games at older ages so I generally assign myself (we self assign here w/i certain requirements) to U-11 to U-15 and mostly girls games for the same reason. I do premier games so its not just the rec.

I can remember maybe 4 or 5 times in the past 5 years that a CR has given what I considered to be a decent pregame. I give a pregame every time I am the CR but hardly anyone else ever does and even if they do it generally is "call it if you see it".

When I am AR and there is no pregame apparently going to be given I suggest "Is there anything you want to tell me (us) about how yoiu want the game called?" Not much response.

I'm interested in the experience of the people on this board. When acting as AR in what percentage of the games do you get what you would consider a decent pregame? And do yoiu give one in every game you are CR?

Jim

[Statesman]

Below amateur there isn't much to discuss pregame. There is no compiled information on team tactics, disruptive players, or gamesmanship. Since there tends to be a wide variety of skill and experience within the officiating crew, the most you can do is reaffirm how you will work as a team. If it is a familiar crew, you don't even need to go that far. Although it sounds admirable to have lengthy discourse on all matters of officiating so that the group works as one, reality suggests otherwise.

I've yet to have the crew's ability adversly affected by not having a quality pregame talk before a youth match. Chances are the ARs already know to do what you suggest, or they aren't listening anyway. Although I'm sure I'm in the minority with my way of thinking - I've even seen cheat sheets listing out all topics the referee is suggested to discuss, and it wasn't short!

[Ref Flunkie]

Usually where I run into problems when either I don't have time to give a good pre-game or I do not get a good pre-game, even at youth level, is in the communication department. Reminding them that it isn't always a good idea to raise your flag on something you think is a PK, but that I may have seen and feel that is not a PK....or that they should delay the flag for offside until involvement...stuff that the SHOULD know if they were experienced referees, but likely DON'T know because their experience is limited to a couple seasons of U-12 rec matches and 6 hrs of yearly classroom training. Statesman is obviously a more experienced, high level referee then myself, but while he feels that a lack of pre-game at the youth level may not be a big deal (in regard to tactics, disruptive players, and gamesmanship, I agree), in my experience, the fact that the ARs typically do not naturally know most of the subtleties of being a good AR usually makes a pre-game in youth matches quite helpful.

[mvgary]

I have found that most pregames I receive are very brief at the youth level. Lower level adult amateur games have better pregames, probably because of the experience/skill level of the refeeees. Nothing wrong with written notes for a pregame, I was dinged on my 8-7 upgrade asessment for my pregame and was instructed to wite it down and carry in my wallet. Add/delete to fit your needs and make sure you cover what you want/need covered. I have seen many referees with similar notes.

Sample pregame at http://soccer-ref.quietfire.com/ by Gil Webber, National Referee Emeritus and contributor to USSF Advice to Referes.

[ref47]

while i have a stock pregame i give almost everytime out, it is outlined on a card taped inside of my game wallet, so i don't forget something. even after giving it about 600 times in the past 5 years, i keep it handy.

with more experienced ar's, i keep it brief; with younger ar's, more indepth.
i expect the same from the cr's i work for. if they are experienced, i might ask a few questions, but go with what they think i need.

as the level of play rises, so does the coverage of my pregame.

as to experience from with other cr's, i find that "old hands" tend to give more pregame than younger refs. i encourage the young guys to expand their pregame. it is a learning tool for ingraining the repetitious.

[NHRef]

I rarely get a good pregame, but have a few times, I tailor my pre-game to the ref level of my ARs.

When I am an AR and get an "empty" pre-game, I will start asking questions:

- how do you want me to signal keeper jumped on PK?
- How do you want me to indicate foul/no foul?
- Do you want help on your quadrant with a ball rolling right down the touchline?

I recently AR'd with a level 05 and he worded his questions like: "if you want, I can help you by....." I thought this was good.

[Wreave]

Good topic... I've been thinking about this recently as I have an assessment on 4/22.

One thing I've been working on is the 90-second pregame. It seems like about a third to half the time, either my previous game or my ARs' runs late, and we get to the field about five minutes before the whistle. I'd like to have a quick, concise pregame to remind ARs of my expectations, even when I've worked with them before.

To do that, I'm trying to break it down into categories that I can easily remember. Here's what I'm thinking:

1. Positioning
-dynamic play
-free kicks
-corner kicks
-PKs

2. Signals
-how long to keep flag up
-offside
-in-and-out goal
-mirror other AR if I don't see
-time

3. What to call/not call
-off the ball
-trash talk
-keeper and PA (warn first if close)
-screened fouls, esp. handling
-if in PA, be certain of foul
-wait a second or two on the flag
-watch for my questioning looks, answer with flag, nod, or shake

Yes, some of this stuff is in Guide to Procedures, for example, but with a lot of the ARs I work with it's a good referesher. Thoughts?

[bluedevils]

most matches as an AR, I do not receive a thorough pre-game.

most matches as a ref, I do not provide a thorough pre-game. Usually this is because of limited time-- ARs not showing up til 20 min before kickoff etc.

The pregame should vary significantly from match to match, depending on various factors such as familiarity of the crew with each other, level of match, age group, experience and ability of each crew member, etc.

A FIFA told us at a state recert not to spend too much time on the pregame. Focus on the top 3-4 things that are most important to you, because people won't retain 45 min worth of stuff. I'm not sure what situations he felt these guidelines should apply, but to me they are broadly applicable.

[tmaker]

A FIFA told us at a state recert not to spend too much time on the pregame. Focus on the top 3-4 things that are most important to you, because people won't retain 45 min worth of stuff. I'm not sure what situations he felt these guidelines should apply, but to me they are broadly applicable.
Funny. I just had two FIFA referees tell me the exact opposite. In fact one of them who taught here at state semi-finals camp told us that she could tell how none of us ever got a good pre-game talk just by watching the games.

Part of the problem here is that referees are still loath to take any real input from their ARs, as evidenced by the choruses here on this board. We generally treat referees still as though they are linesmen and not much else. I have always sensed that obnoxious "It's my game" sort of attitude, particularly among referees older than I am--and I'm not young. I don't even bother asking any more for pre-game from most of them. I figure, hell, it's your game, so you hang when I screw it up. All they want is offside and sometimes ball in and out of play, so that's all you get from me.

Assorted quotes from pre-game talks I've been given (taken from my journal, where I write this stuff down):

"The only call I want you to make is when I'm on my way to the airport."
***
"Don't call any fouls. I'll handle all the foul calls."
***
"Leave the penalty area to me." (from a ref who stayed within ten yards of center circle the entire match, GU19)
***
"All I want from you is offside. Don't worry about anything else. As soon as you see an offside player, flag it." (HUH?)
***
"I don't want to know anything about the teams before I go into a match." (Okay...sure...)
***

...and so on. So, Jim, you're not going to get much of a pre-game from refs like this. ;) I suppose the real issue here is: "Why give a pre-game talk at all?" And I can't answer that for anyone but me.

As an AR, I need to know what the Ref is going to do, how he's going to call the game, his level of mobility, and so forth, so that I can help to the best of my ability to make him look like a flawless genius. I want to know what level of play he's going to set. I want to know how he's going to handle players and control the game. I don't need him to remind me of mechanics in the Guide To Procedures, unless he has some variation from the standard. I do need him to tell me what non-standard, or "negative" signals he wants or doesn't want.

As a referee, of course, I want the assistant referees to feel like they're part of the match, and I want the best out of them they can give. I want to know where their comfort level is. I want to know anything they know about the two teams involved. I want them to know what I know about the teams involved. I want us to look good: to look like a team, and act like a team. I want to minimize confusion and maximize our communication. I want to tell them what kind of game I expect to see and expect to call. And of course, I want us all to look good.

I *always* give game instructions to my ARs. I seldom receive them from other referees, unless it's "D.F.U." The length of the talk depends on 1) the importance of the game; 2) my familiarity with the ARs; 3) the time I have; 4) how much I actually know. In a GU12 with two ARs I know and have worked with many times, in spring training league, with ten minutes between games--well, it's going to be short. In a State semi-final, it's going to be quite long.

We generally give lousy pre-game instructions in Washington. Don't be surprised if you don't get one for months. If you see me at Harbor Tyee Cup, though, I'll be sure to give you the best pre-game of the tournament ;)

[Nashvillian]

A FIFA told us at a state recert not to spend too much time on the pregame. Focus on the top 3-4 things that are most important to you, because people won't retain 45 min worth of stuff.

I think this is wise. Maybe some of you can listen to a CR drone on and on for 45 minutes and instantly remember that strange little combination of things he wants you to do when a certain situation arises. Personally, I find myself trying to recall all that stuff and, before I can dig it out of short-term memory, it's too late to do what he wanted or what I'm in the habit of doing - the moment is gone.

[Law5]

I don't do very many youth games anymore. I have had 30 minute pre-games with FIFA referees, and I have had no pre-game from grade 8's. Why do you think the FIFA referee gives a solid pre-game? Because stuff happens out there. The FIFA referee knows what can happen, so they want to see that we are all on the same page for situations where there might be a variety of answers. The grade 8 may not yet have the experience of things going wrong and the crew screwing up/looking awkward, etc. as a result.
It is important to give a pre-game, if at all possible. (I realize that in a tournament environment, for example, it isn't always realistic.) One reason that applies to every game is to focus the crews attention on what needs to be done. Get their minds away from the traffic, the weather, what they're doing later in the day, etc. and put all of their concentration on doing the best possible job on this game. That's not to say that your pre-game doesn't have to be adjusted to the level and experience of the AR's and 4th. Don't start with "Please go all the way down to the end line...." when the AR's are a State Referee and a National Emeritus. But there are still things to discuss, without reviewing the entire law book and USSF mechanics booklet.

[Chubbywubby]

I don't do very many youth games anymore. I have had 30 minute pre-games with FIFA referees, and I have had no pre-game from grade 8's. Why do you think the FIFA referee gives a solid pre-game? Because stuff happens out there. The FIFA referee knows what can happen, so they want to see that we are all on the same page for situations where there might be a variety of answers. The grade 8 may not yet have the experience of things going wrong and the crew screwing up/looking awkward, etc. as a result.
It is important to give a pre-game, if at all possible. (I realize that in a tournament environment, for example, it isn't always realistic.) One reason that applies to every game is to focus the crews attention on what needs to be done. Get their minds away from the traffic, the weather, what they're doing later in the day, etc. and put all of their concentration on doing the best possible job on this game. That's not to say that your pre-game doesn't have to be adjusted to the level and experience of the AR's and 4th. Don't start with "Please go all the way down to the end line...." when the AR's are a State Referee and a National Emeritus. But there are still things to discuss, without reviewing the entire law book and USSF mechanics booklet.
Agreed. The best pre-game I ever got wasn't even face-to-face. I was to be the 4th for a National Cup match, with the ref driving in from out of town. Since my match was to end 20 minutes before his started, I had warned him that I wouldn't be available for a long pre-game if he wanted to start on time. The night before, he called me and we spent almost an hour on the phone going over what he wanted to cover: appearance, positioning, duties (including pre- and post-match) -- his, mine, and the ARs' -- what he knew about the teams, what to watch for, what to call and not call, how to communicate, etc. etc. Very extensive, very thorough, and nothing repetitious or extraneous. I wish I had tape recorded it.